Ewen McKenzie: Wallaby Coach

[Dan54]

By the way Link, please use the word "team" rather than "group" or "playing group". I am so over those phrases.

Rob, I hate the phrase group too, everytime I hear it I start getting shitty, it seems to be the in thing to say and my argument is I want to watch a TEAM play rugby, and I'll listen to a group play music!!
I not sure I agree going away from leadership 'group' in team is a great idea. Remember how everyone on here rubbished Deans when Richie McCaw said he thought he 9Deans) liked to be in control and listened to noone.

 

[Train Without a Station]

i cant help but feel mckenzie will pick horwill to captain the wallabies
but i dont feel he is up to it
i dont like his decision making and feel its often clouded by his emotions
pococks injury is horrible timing as i feel he is the man for the job, failing that genia is first choice

Big call considering Jake White didn't consider Pocock the best captaincy option at the Brumbies. His decision making isn't clouded by his emotions. He goes at there and sticks to the game plan when everybody else's emotions are getting the better of them (e.g. Genia). Horwill is a better captaincy option than Genia. Genia is the worst for losing his head and letting his emotions get the better of him. He is the best Super Rugby captain in Australia (probably followed closely by Mowen. Dennis is probably closer than people give him credit for too). He has lead the Reds through 2 and half reasonably successful seasons, winning the big games and getting home in the tight ones.

What are Pocock's actual captaincy credentials anyway? A dud season at the Force and a couple of average Wallaby performances.

He may well be the best option, but it would be a bit of a fluke pick as there is no real evidence to suggest that. And before you mention how when Rocky was captain everybody was listening to David in the team huddles, everybody listens to Quade in the team huddle at the Reds when he talks tactics, etc. I no way is he the best captaincy option there.

 

[Dumbledore]

Slightly left field, but when Higgers gets un-broken he might be an option. Thought he was an absolutely outstanding captain for the Rebels - despite winning all of what, three games? Otherwise I wouldn't mind seeing it go to Mowen.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think the Wallaby captain must also be the captain of their Super Rugby side. It's rather like the coaching apprenticeship: you've got to prove that you're up to at a "lower" level first before getting the top job in an international team. That means one of Horwill or Mowen for mine. I'd be happy with either.

 

[Braveheart81]

The benefit of Horwill is Genia is that they are walk up starters for the foreseeable future.

Mowen had an excellent series and has had an outstanding year but he will also have to compete with Higginbotham, Palu, MMM, and Dennis for a starting spot for the next couple of years at least. He is not substantially better than his competition so someone else's form improving and his dropping a bit would see him not be an obvious choice.

Purely on the basis of captaincy ability I rate Mowen the highest. I wouldn't be making him Wallaby captain anytime soon though. He has to gain more experience with the Wallabies first.

Pocock is by no means a walk up starter when he returns next year although he's probably pretty close to it.

I think the biggest mistake we've made in the past is having a captain who needs to be picked for that reason who isn't the best player in their position. This was true at the end of Gregan's career and Elsom when he returned in 2009 or whenever it was.

 

[Sully]

i cant help but feel mckenzie will pick horwill to captain the wallabies
but i dont feel he is up to it
i dont like his decision making and feel its often clouded by his emotions
pococks injury is horrible timing as i feel he is the man for the job, failing that genia is first choice

Yes we know you're not a fan but my guess the vast majority of supporters are. But don't let that stop you. I think Pocock is a horrible captain. You just had to look at the Force under his leadership to see why.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Yes we know you're not a fan but my guess the vast majority of supporters are. But don't let that stop you. I think Pocock is a horrible captain. You just had to look at the Force under his leadership to see why.

Exactly. Absolutely zero evidence to say that he is a great captain. As I mentioned he may well be a great captain, but really suggests he is.

 

[scaraby]

We now have the coach we all wanted can we not now try to undermine probably the best/most uniting captain we've had since Eales just for the sake of a debate. 1 coach 1 captain 1 team following 1 supporter base backing them...think that was our solution for the new era on another chat. ...don't make Gatland right for the rest of this season as well.

 

[Braveheart81]

We now have the coach we all wanted can we not now try to undermine probably the best/most uniting captain we've had since Eales just for the sake of a debate. 1 coach 1 captain 1 team following 1 supporter base backing them.think that was our solution for the new era on another chat. .don't make Gatland right for the rest of this season as well.

I hardly see the Lions series ending and Deans getting the arse as a reason for everyone to improve their productivity.

 

[scaraby]

I hardly see the Lions series ending and Deans getting the arse as a reason for everyone to improve their productivity.

Fresh start...can't live in history but you can learn from it. i know 80k people screaming their lungs out and not booing their national team will help. Did you hear the roar everytime a lions players name was yelled out on Saturday night..? and they were supposed to be the disgruntled supporters???

 

[jay-c]

Yes we know you're not a fan but my guess the vast majority of supporters are. But don't let that stop you. I think Pocock is a horrible captain. You just had to look at the Force under his leadership to see why.

i agree that pocock might not be the best option,
but what i can see is what our opponents see- and i see is a captain unable to control his emotions, this to me is a glaring weakness

 

[I like to watch]

Yes we know you're not a fan but my guess the vast majority of supporters are. But don't let that stop you. I think Pocock is a horrible captain. You just had to look at the Force under his leadership to see why.

Take Pocock out of that side & put Horwill in and you would have not won any more games.
The Force are at least a couple of years and a coach away from being a good side.

 

[Train Without a Station]

i agree that pocock might not be the best option,
but what i can see is what our opponents see- and i see is a captain unable to control his emotions, this to me is a glaring weakness

Other than getting a little 'stampy' which is a point of much conjecture from both sides of the fence, where so? James actually used to be quite easily baited. Since taking the Reds captaincy he seems to have ironed this out of his game. The multiple instances of stamping appear to be the biggest concern, however something like that is more calculated than emotional.

Not everybody is stoic like John Eales no matter what, doesn't make them less of a leader.

 

[jay-c]

Big call considering Jake White didn't consider Pocock the best captaincy option at the Brumbies. His decision making isn't clouded by his emotions. He goes at there and sticks to the game plan when everybody else's emotions are getting the better of them (e.g. Genia). Horwill is a better captaincy option than Genia. Genia is the worst for losing his head and letting his emotions get the better of him. He is the best Super Rugby captain in Australia (probably followed closely by Mowen. Dennis is probably closer than people give him credit for too). He has lead the Reds through 2 and half reasonably successful seasons, winning the big games and getting home in the tight ones.

What are Pocock's actual captaincy credentials anyway? A dud season at the Force and a couple of average Wallaby performances.

He may well be the best option, but it would be a bit of a fluke pick as there is no real evidence to suggest that. And before you mention how when Rocky was captain everybody was listening to David in the team huddles, everybody listens to Quade in the team huddle at the Reds when he talks tactics, etc. I no way is he the best captaincy option there.

one of the issues i have is that while sticking to a game plan horwill doesnt have the clarity or nous to make emotionless tough decisions on the run, which is what you need a leader to do
i think even gatland said when horwill showed his emotions after the 2nd test the lions knew that the wallabies had given everything and this gave them confidence going into the 3rd
i think horwil is a great 'follow me' leader in the team, but that is far better suited to a 2IC, the captain has got to be a thinker
stomping on a players head in the 3rd minute of the 1st test, combined with his history of being a hot head suggests to me that he is not of the caliber of past leaders like eales
ive thrown out genia and pococks names cause i think they are better thinkers and intellectually superior-
they might not be better options, but horwill has a few massive weaknesses (not many) which impede his ability to perform the role of captain for me

id like to ad that i feel he is a fantastic player, one whos position is not in doubt in the team but can anyone convince me that by revealing his emotional instability to the opposition is not a massive weakness?
follow me leaders are great to get momentum and drive the team forward, but the few times we have been under the pump recently- think ireland, final lions test and multiple bledisloe cups we have looked rudderless and unable to fight/ find a way out
im not saying hes responsible but when we have been smashed we have looked rudderless and the captain looks out of ideas

 

[jay-c]

Other than getting a little 'stampy' which is a point of much conjecture from both sides of the fence, where so? James actually used to be quite easily baited. Since taking the Reds captaincy he seems to have ironed this out of his game. The multiple instances of stamping appear to be the biggest concern, however something like that is more calculated than emotional.

Not everybody is stoic like John Eales no matter what, doesn't make them less of a leader.

to be honest mate- if his stomping is more calculated than emotional that makes him far less worthy of the wallaby captaincy
that makes him a thug and a thug has no place in the wallaby team in my opinion, let alone being the captain
if he stays captain, in the rest of the worlds eyes we are condoning his behavior, behavior which he has a history of- at what point do we say thats not what we expect from our leader?

 

[Train Without a Station]

one of the issues i have is that while sticking to a game plan horwill doesnt have the clarity or nous to make emotionless tough decisions on the run, which is what you need a leader to do

I highly doubt it all comes down to the captain. What do you think those blokes with the ear pieces are running out there doing? I highly doubt they are whispering sweet nothings in the bloke's ear. The game is 80 minutes long, if the coach wasn't looking at these type of things and determing whether to change strategy what use would he be up there in the coaches box?

When it comes to the game plan for the majority of the game it's the intent to stick on with it, not chop and change. Veering from the game plan without consultation would not be emotionless, it would be getting caught up in the emotion, thinking, "this is working straight away we need to change".

With 2 minutes on the clock, down by 6 and getting a penalty 30 out, then pointing for the corner knowing you need to score a try to win it, after going for the sticks all day. That's leadership. And that's the type of emotionless decision that comes down to the captain.

People bang on about the Brumbies game and Horwill knocking back the points saying 12 points were on offer or whatever. 12 points weren't on offer. The same 3 points were on offer 4 times because of the pressure not taking them created. Taking the 3 would have had the Reds receiving the pill in their own 22 and the Brumbies breathing a sigh of relief.

 

[jay-c]

im not doubting horwills ability to go for a try when given a penalty i assure you... its his inability to consider anything else where i find fault.
think about it for a second- when people suggest hes made a good captaincy decision, has it been for anything other than going for a try?
now sometimes its on and its surely won us games in the past
but be honest with yourself mate- how many of the truly great leaders ever let their emotions show the way horwill does?
it doesnt happen because emotion can get you to the top, but its mental strength that keeps your there and allows you to fight off challenges
you cannot have a hothead as captain, in the eyes of the opposition the leader cannot have glaring weaknesses as they are easily targeted.

 

[No4918]

to be honest mate- if his stomping is more calculated than emotional that makes him far less worthy of the wallaby captaincy
that makes him a thug and a thug has no place in the wallaby team in my opinion, let alone being the captain
if he stays captain, in the rest of the worlds eyes we are condoning his behavior, behavior which he has a history of- at what point do we say thats not what we expect from our leader?

Time to be a grammar nazi. Your longer posts are hard to read. Capitals and fullstops is all I ask for.

 

[scaraby]

im not doubting horwills ability to go for a try when given a penalty i assure you. its his inability to consider anything else where i find fault.
think about it for a second- when people suggest hes made a good captaincy decision, has it been for anything other than going for a try?
now sometimes its on and its surely won us games in the past
but be honest with yourself mate- how many of the truly great leaders ever let their emotions show the way horwill does?
it doesnt happen because emotion can get you to the top, but its mental strength that keeps your there and allows you to fight off challenges
you cannot have a hothead as captain, in the eyes of the opposition the leader cannot have glaring weaknesses as they are easily targeted.

I'm at a loss to find the "glaring weakness" that Horwill showed apart from a post match show of relief after giving 100% in a must win game which lasted 10 secs and was then gone. After the week he had and was about to have I wish I had the ability to release like that and then get on with it. It by the way was after the match and he was cleared twice of the so called stomp whichyou have mentioned quite a few times as if he was guilty.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I'd say Genia is one player that shows hothead moments. He does let his emotions and frustrations get the better of him, often aimed at team mates. Getting a bit teary at the end of a hard fought win sits perfectly well with me.

Against the Blues he opted for the points all day to get us over the line this year.

He's not perfect, but I can't see too many that seem to be better options with the runs on the board he has.