Ewen McKenzie - Life after the Reds

[USARugger]

Josef Schmidt sounds like a good option.

He combines the rugby nous of a Kiwi with the discipline and efficiency of a German.

How could you go wrong?

He was a head coach of one of the provinces. If you think rugby politics is bad in Australia it gets downright brutal when it comes down to provincial bias and accusations of provincial bias in Ireland. It's a pretty horrible boondoggle to get caught in and just by being a former Leinster coach he will never, ever be able to get away from it.

Whoever said that is talking crap, there's foreigners coaching provincial sides with success all over the world. Jake White is coaching Australians at the Brumbies already. The problem is a foreigner trying to instil Australian nationalism/passion into their players.

Players shouldn't need any more motivation in terms of nationalism or patriotism than pulling on the colors of their country.

 

[gel]

I do not want to see QC (Quade Cooper) or JO'C anywhere near Jake, whether in the guise of Brumbies' coach or Wallabies' coach.

Why's that?

 

[Blue]

Can someone actually try to articulate what this "understanding Australian players" or "Australian Psyche" thing actually means.

Maybe for the last ten years of living here I haven't been paying attention.

 

[Scotty]

Maybe for the last 37 minus 3 years I have been here in havent paid attention. Cos I ain't got no clue neither.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Or it's just as Link says and he's made the announcement now to give the Reds clarity in the coaching stakes. I'd say this is the most likely scenario.

Very noble of him. It's refreshing to see someone rise above self interest.
.

 

[Scoey]

Can someone actually try to articulate what this "understanding Australian players" or "Australian Psyche" thing actually means.

Maybe for the last ten years of living here I haven't been paying attention.

Not saying I subscribe to it Blue but I think it's a term bandied about by some of the more old school players, now retired. I don't think that the Wallabies were ever been about being the best players but more so being clever about how they played. I think that the old school players used to think that there was something particularly unique to the way that we played the game in Australia,and that if you weren't Australian then you wouldn't understand. There may have been an element of truth to it but that was a long time ago.

Now in the professional era, nothing is secret anymore, we can analyse teams and players to every minute detail and share that information with someone across the globe in an instant. The game has changed and the thought process has to as well. We need a good coach who is a good coach. If they clash with the players on a personal basis then that is not good and needs to come into consideration. If they clash because of cultures then so be it, an Australian might be a better option. If they clash because one of the personalities is an areshole then regardless of culture, it's not going to work.

 

[Richo]

well on the basis he doesn't get signed to coach ireland (and a lot on here seem to think he doesnt want to move back over that side) what are his options? he's surely not going to stay out of coaching for 2 years if deans is reappointed. Scotland gig looks locked away, wales is locked away, france is not an option and england - lancaster isn't going anywhere for at least another year.
so if ireland doesnt happen, does link sit on the sideline for 2 years twiddling his thumbs and fast becoming irrelevant? if he does that.it's 2015 and his last success was 2011.

so my speculation is that if he doesn't get ireland, he takes the HPU job or the next best coaching gig that could be around which is a super 15 gig.

HPU is conceivable as a last-resort option. Why would he want a Super 15 job? He's got one now. Why would he take the Rebels? Unless he turned the franchise into a finals contender in short order, he'd be tarnishing his reputation.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Must be an Aussie - Meh

There is talk about Old School. I recall Old School when we had an Austalian born and bred dinki-bloody-di coach from NSW and the QLD "connection" went out of their way to undermine that Coach. Same when a QLD coach was in charge of Club Wobbly, NSW rugby mafia did all that they could to get rid of that bloody Queenslander.

Historically, the politics of Aust rugby is as bad as any other country (Ireland).

The Coach has to be the best available end of story. Being an Aussie is a bonus.

 

[Dan54]

Yep HJ, Johnson, Gatland etc seem to be doing alright with Wales and Scotland, and as you say, politics don't come into it as much with foreigners. I tend to think Link is man for job, as I said just ARU can cover their backs over whether or not having someone from outside Aussie is hurting or helping. I tend to think if you only worried about instilling Aussie passion/nationlism in players, if it is an issue I would tend to say manager could do that as well as coach.

 

[USARugger]

Yep HJ, Johnson, Gatland etc seem to be doing alright with Wales and Scotland, and as you say, politics don't come into it as much with foreigners. I tend to think Link is man for job, as I said just ARU can cover their backs over whether or not having someone from outside Aussie is hurting or helping. I tend to think if you only worried about instilling Aussie passion/nationlism in players, if it is an issue I would tend to say manager could do that as well as coach.

Honestly it shouldn't be the job of anyone on staff to get the boys "patriotic", if they aren't feeling pretty fucking patriotic before pulling on the national freakin' jersey for their home nation then they shouldn't be there to begin with. This is probably the only thing that should never, ever require outside intervention of any kind.

The coach is there to teach you how to play and win the game of rugby, not be 'proud' of the country you likely spent your entire life (if not the vast majority for most players) living and playing rugby in.

 

[Brumby Runner]

So you don't want the best players playing for the national team? Seems a bit odd to me.

The 'best' players are not best if they are out of form. QC (Quade Cooper) is way off the pace atm, and JO'C is not the form 10 or 15 this year. But it is their immature attitudes that cause me concern. They behave very like the mens relay swimming team and are more likely to have a toxic effect on team mates rather than contribute positively. I say, leave them out until they grow up.

 

[Jets]

Just sitting here thinking, if overseas coach like Deans or White can't coach, because they can't understand the Aussie player pshyce, do you need a Aus coach for Aus players, Kiwi coach for kiwi players (QC (Quade Cooper),Digby, Kepu )SA one to handle Pocock etc, and perhaps one from New Guinea for Genia? Just get best coach, not sure if Link really in picture as Irish coach,I suspect Schmidt would be a better pick for them, though as a kiwi I would be keen on seeing Schmidt (and Vern Cotter) heading back home to NZ to coach!!

You'd be happy for an Aussie or a Pom to coach the All Blacks then?

 

[Jets]

The 'best' players are not best if they are out of form. QC (Quade Cooper) is way off the pace atm, and JO'C is not the form 10 or 15 this year. But it is their immature attitudes that cause me concern. They behave very like the mens relay swimming team and are more likely to have a toxic effect on team mates rather than contribute positively. I say, leave them out until they grow up.

You're comment was that you didn't want these guys anywhere near Jake if he was Wallaby coach. If they are the best players available then they should be in the squad. Part of the coaches role is to set the culture of the group. If done well then a lot of these behaviours would not be an issue.

 

[Braveheart81]

You'd be happy for an Aussie or a Pom to coach the All Blacks then?

It's a different kettle of fish. New Zealand has been at the pinnacle of rugby for a long time. Barring someone extraordinary, why would they get a rugby coach from another country?

It's similar to the situation in cricket. Australia dominated world cricket for 15 or so years and about half or more of the test playing countries ended up with Australian head coaches.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

You'd be happy for an Aussie or a Pom to coach the All Blacks then?

The Lords of Darkness have shown a degree of "flexibility" in the past to ensure that they get their man.

IIRC Graham Henry after a successful period as Auckland Coach headed overseas to Wales because the Darkness Coach role was unavailable. Being an Aucklander counted against him as well. Think Auckland = QLD, Canterbury = NSW. No love lost in the political games there.

At the time the Darkness policy was if you coach overseas, then you will never coach the Darkness. Time rolled on, Henry had success in Wales, the incumbent mob fell out of favour with the board.

Henry was deemed to be the best man for the job, and their rules were changed to allow his appointment.

Will they allow a foreigner? Probably if they could definitively prove that they were better than the best kiwi candidate. Their coach development pathway seems to be very well developed that the best bloke for the gig will typically always be one of their own. Look at how they cycle the next generation of coaches through their Under 20 programme. They are a net exporter of top level coaches, so they must be doing something right.

By contract, our coach development pathway seems to be very fragmented, ad hoc, and wrapped up in a level of political intrigue that the NSW Labor Party would be proud of.

 

[USARugger]

You're comment was that you didn't want these guys anywhere near Jake if he was Wallaby coach. If they are the best players available then they should be in the squad. Part of the coaches role is to set the culture of the group. If done well then a lot of these behaviours would not be an issue.

I thought it was a sideways attack at White for the style of play he employed with the Boks (which clearly doesn't hold even an ounce of truth in regards to how he has the Brumbies playing now anyway) but now I'm just confused.

 

[Craig Riddington]

It's a different kettle of fish. New Zealand has been at the pinnacle of rugby for a long time. Barring someone extraordinary, why would they get a rugby coach from another country?

It's similar to the situation in cricket. Australia dominated world cricket for 15 or so years and about half or more of the test playing countries ended up with Australian head coaches.

I've never thought of Mickey Arthur as, 'someone extraordinary'.

 

[boyo]

Just sitting here thinking, if overseas coach like Deans or White can't coach, because they can't understand the Aussie player pshyce, do you need a Aus coach for Aus players, Kiwi coach for kiwi players (QC (Quade Cooper),Digby, Kepu )SA one to handle Pocock etc, and perhaps one from New Guinea for Genia? Just get best coach, not sure if Link really in picture as Irish coach,I suspect Schmidt would be a better pick for them, though as a kiwi I would be keen on seeing Schmidt (and Vern Cotter) heading back home to NZ to coach!!

Point of order m'lud: IIRC Pocock is from Zimbabwe. I know that Zimbabwe and RSA are very close geographically, but they're different countries.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

HPU is conceivable as a last-resort option. Why would he want a Super 15 job? He's got one now. Why would he take the Rebels? Unless he turned the franchise into a finals contender in short order, he'd be tarnishing his reputation.

not coaching for 2+ years would tarnish his reputation more, as far as i am concerned. none of the above answers the question of what he will do if he doesn't get ireland or wallabies....he can't just sit out.

 

[Rob42]

not coaching for 2+ years would tarnish his reputation more, as far as i am concerned. none of the above answers the question of what he will do if he doesn't get ireland or wallabies..he can't just sit out.

Of course he can - he'll find plenty of other rugby-related work, media or some "consultancies", etc, if he needs to.