EOYT 2016 - Possibles, probables and general banter
- Thread starter KOB1987
- Start date
- Status
Agree. And 6'4" is workable at 6 if the player is athletic enough (lineout wise). He really needs a good pre-season and 2017 Super season to stake a claim.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
I've no real issue with Dempsey either. Has had a strong NRC, but personally I thought RHP had finished the comp as the standout No 6. Good to see some new faces getting the opportunity.
I know nothing about Koreibeti other than what has been posted on this site from time to time, but have a feeling that he should have had some time with a Super Rugby side before making a Wallabies' squad.
Perese looks to be a real rugby player but I'm worried that at the top level he will be found out by his lack of size. Seems there a lot of little blokes running around in Aus rugby these days.
I hope to see all these players get a run against the Baa Baas in France.
I know nothing about Koreibeti other than what has been posted on this site from time to time, but have a feeling that he should have had some time with a Super Rugby side before making a Wallabies' squad.
Perese looks to be a real rugby player but I'm worried that at the top level he will be found out by his lack of size. Seems there a lot of little blokes running around in Aus rugby these days.
I hope to see all these players get a run against the Baa Baas in France.
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
Yes-ish he's just the other side of 6'4". Cyclo and Barbarian are right though, it comes down to a combination of athleticism and mongrel in lieu of a couple of centimetres.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Absolutely KOB,
But the shorter you are, the less likely it is.
Read has about an inch on Dempsey. Most importantly he's probably the best line out exponent under 195cm since Harinordoquy.
What they show is that height is not a barrier within a few inches. But what they also show is they are pretty much exceptions, not the norm.
Has Dempsey shown himself to be an exception in that regard?
I'm with BH. In my view it should be RHP. Versatile and big enough to player lock, 6 or 8. But also the best 6's in the world are basically third locks. Even Kaino considered a 6/8 specialist has actually played test rugby at lock. I haven't seen every Rays game so maybe I'm off the mark but I also see RHP as a better line out option as well.
I expect Dempsey to go because as Barbarian says, he's Cheika's type. But I also think that's the problem. Because Cheika's types haven't been enough to win games. Despite the gushing about Arnold in the podcast he still missed clean outs and tackles and had a low work rate.
I'd be very interested to see what Forcefan's ruck stats tell us, because Arnold from the weekend in his 48 minutes had less tackles and less runs than Simmons did in his 32 minutes off the bench. Simmons also had more effective run stats, but that's skewed by one big line break so it's hard to judge that single stat fairly.
But the shorter you are, the less likely it is.
Read has about an inch on Dempsey. Most importantly he's probably the best line out exponent under 195cm since Harinordoquy.
What they show is that height is not a barrier within a few inches. But what they also show is they are pretty much exceptions, not the norm.
Has Dempsey shown himself to be an exception in that regard?
I'm with BH. In my view it should be RHP. Versatile and big enough to player lock, 6 or 8. But also the best 6's in the world are basically third locks. Even Kaino considered a 6/8 specialist has actually played test rugby at lock. I haven't seen every Rays game so maybe I'm off the mark but I also see RHP as a better line out option as well.
I expect Dempsey to go because as Barbarian says, he's Cheika's type. But I also think that's the problem. Because Cheika's types haven't been enough to win games. Despite the gushing about Arnold in the podcast he still missed clean outs and tackles and had a low work rate.
I'd be very interested to see what Forcefan's ruck stats tell us, because Arnold from the weekend in his 48 minutes had less tackles and less runs than Simmons did in his 32 minutes off the bench. Simmons also had more effective run stats, but that's skewed by one big line break so it's hard to judge that single stat fairly.
RHP is also the ball-running abrasive player Cheika likes. I'd have probably taken him too because replacing Mumm and Fardy is surely more integral out of a potential 6 option (i.e. 6/lock type) than having a 6/8 type like Dempsey.
It's much of a muchness though. There's good arguments for both of them and the reality is that they're a project player anyway so are unlikely to be up for selection.
It's much of a muchness though. There's good arguments for both of them and the reality is that they're a project player anyway so are unlikely to be up for selection.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Yeah neither are going to play a test in all likelihood.
But it's a discussion about who's going to progress to fill the role in 2017/2018.
If anything Dempsey is on the small side for test rugby. Watch the video on Read's debut and Hanson specifically talks about him needing to put on weight. Dempsey is around the same weight Read was at the time.
RHP is at the other end where he probably just needs to lean up so he's carrying a little less empty weight around.
But it's a discussion about who's going to progress to fill the role in 2017/2018.
If anything Dempsey is on the small side for test rugby. Watch the video on Read's debut and Hanson specifically talks about him needing to put on weight. Dempsey is around the same weight Read was at the time.
RHP is at the other end where he probably just needs to lean up so he's carrying a little less empty weight around.
BDA
Jim Lenehan (48)
Interesting to see Tupou in the squad. Cant say I watched QLD country that closely this season but they appeared to have one of the poorer scrums. Certainly has potential but is it too early to be playing him against some of world rugby's better set piece teams?
I like the idea of bringing him in to learn from the squad and coach, but not sure I'd feel too good about having to throw him in at this stage of his development
I like the idea of bringing him in to learn from the squad and coach, but not sure I'd feel too good about having to throw him in at this stage of his development
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
I was actually going to comment that if they took a bolter it should be somebody like Tupou, based on the comments about how many NRC players need a full professional pre-season.
I tend to think that Tupou is still 2 years away so this is 12 months premature.
As a side note, good to see GAGR banning dissenting voices on the main page. Good to see things back to 2015 when you weren't allowed to disagree with the establishment.
I tend to think that Tupou is still 2 years away so this is 12 months premature.
As a side note, good to see GAGR banning dissenting voices on the main page. Good to see things back to 2015 when you weren't allowed to disagree with the establishment.
What? The posters who could better be described as angry, repetitive spammers?
Dissenting voices gives them far more credibility than they deserve.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Looking at the after game comments on the match thread, with the exception of 1 or 2 actual trolls, what's considered spam seems to depend on whether you agree with it or not.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Have a little difficulty with the concept of the 4 "development" players.
I think to reward them with a EOYT is a bit over the top, particularly when the ARU is strapped for cash.
By all means they and others should be brought into Camp Wallaby on home soil and not tour until they are really members of the touring squad in order to experience the "culture"
I think to reward them with a EOYT is a bit over the top, particularly when the ARU is strapped for cash.
By all means they and others should be brought into Camp Wallaby on home soil and not tour until they are really members of the touring squad in order to experience the "culture"
hammertimethere
Trevor Allan (34)
I'm not a fan of taking Koroibete for Wallabies involvement. While it is technically within our rules and I know the Kiwis did it with SBW I'd rather see the guy play rugby first and help the Rebels win a few games. Guys that have put in the time in our game this year are more deserving. Morahan, English, Nabuli and Kellaway etc. Koroibete, Rona etc. will get their chance but it should be June 2017 at the earliest.
As for the apprentice concept for the Wallabies I'm not sure that I like it. Maybe for a guy like Tupou who probably doesn't need much more physical development it is ok but Perese (with his age, recent injury history etc.) and Dempsey who definitely do need more physical development surely a whole off/pre-season at home gives them a better chance of having a strong, injury free start to the Super Rugby season?
As for the apprentice concept for the Wallabies I'm not sure that I like it. Maybe for a guy like Tupou who probably doesn't need much more physical development it is ok but Perese (with his age, recent injury history etc.) and Dempsey who definitely do need more physical development surely a whole off/pre-season at home gives them a better chance of having a strong, injury free start to the Super Rugby season?
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Apologies Lord Gagger. You are right.
The refs are against us. Every time. Very foolish of me to think otherwise.
Fatprop how does he compare to somebody like Sam Figg (for pace) who seems so promising, but just doesn't fit any defined back row role completely?
Or perhaps to Read who plays more of the Aussie 6 role?
It seemingly hasn't been something that Cheika or many other international coaches have valued. I can think of Croft the old English 6 who had wheels but so many are more so 3rd locks. Even in Australia really Higginbotham at the Reds was probably the only player to play 6 long term with a bit of pace. (I've excluded Hoiles on the basis that he was merely used as a replacement for Dennis, another who plays a lot of lock and isn't the quickest going round).
The refs are against us. Every time. Very foolish of me to think otherwise.
Fatprop how does he compare to somebody like Sam Figg (for pace) who seems so promising, but just doesn't fit any defined back row role completely?
Or perhaps to Read who plays more of the Aussie 6 role?
It seemingly hasn't been something that Cheika or many other international coaches have valued. I can think of Croft the old English 6 who had wheels but so many are more so 3rd locks. Even in Australia really Higginbotham at the Reds was probably the only player to play 6 long term with a bit of pace. (I've excluded Hoiles on the basis that he was merely used as a replacement for Dennis, another who plays a lot of lock and isn't the quickest going round).
Strewthcobber
Simon Poidevin (60)
Lets be pragmatic here - This is pro sport. You don't deserve anything, there's no time to be put in, you don't get a turn.
The ARU is spending a lot of money on Koroibete.
They are going to want to see some return on that investment as quickly as possible. Get him in the squad, run him through his paces, get him up to speed.
If nothing else, they are paying him already, he can hold the tackle bags.
dunno, Figg may be quicker, lets see if how he goes for the Force
- Status