England v Springboks - Twickenham

[Ulrich]

Both teams are coming off losses and I'm thinking both will be really fired up for this game. For myself Bok v England clashes are second only to Bok v All Black clashes and tradionally our players are fired up for England.

The 14 point drubbing we received will spur the team on tremendously to atone for that sorry excuse of a display so I'm probably a bit more optimistic than most for this game all of a sudden. Of course England are well capable of winning this one but I think the Springboks will extend their unbeaten run over England this time around.

First game jitters and rust is now out of the way. We played an 80 minute game, albeit shitty, we didn't fade because of fitness. We faded because Ireland got ahead on the scoreboard and we simply couldn't crack their defence for a number of reasons. Credit to them for that as well.

 

[Shelts89]

I am massively excited for this game. As a Pom I feel its almost a must win, though it's too tight to call. The problem is that England and SA traditionally play a similar style of game, but the boks are always bigger than us. Causing problems. This will be a close game for me, it'll be very close.

 

[Ulrich]

Shelts89,

Our players are not as big in comparison to others nowadays. Hendricks is not as big as Pietersen, Willie is not that big and in the forwards we're probably about even with your lot.

If Lambie plays (which is quite possible) we sacrifice quite a bit in size there as well. The general consensus is that NH teams are better scrummagers as well because of the conditions so it will be really tough for our guys. England are traditionally very strong in the set-piece.

Your crop are always up for an arm wrestle and the styles employed by England and the Boks in addition to history is what makes this fixture an exciting one.

I'm hoping that the big defeat (a 14 point defeat at Intl level is big - let's face it) will fire up the Boks slightly more than the narrow loss England suffered to NZ will fire them up.

However; England are probably in a very similar place to the Springboks on all facets at the moment. It took us several years to beat the All Blacks although we've been close on some occasions and England are in that space at the moment so there is nothing between the sides at the moment.

Lancaster has done a great job with this side. He managed a draw against SA away from home in his first season in charge and last time around we barely managed a 1 point victory.

 

[Dan54]

I with you Ulrich and Shelts, looking forward to this one. I think the Boks will take game, but not by great margin, and not overly confident in saying it, but just think they weren't all that bad last week. Be good test anyway I reckon!

 

[Shelts89]

Ulrich,

I just always feel that SA are a trouble team for England based upon traditional strengths of our games. England and the Boks are two of the best sides at fighting an arm wrestle, and to be honest I think that who ever is at home has the advantage currently. But only slightly. Looking at the sides selected on the last weekend your backline is certainly more dangerous though. But I think most English fans would admit to wanting a few changes to the side, even with the current crop of injuries.

As a back I can't really claim to much knowledge, but the two packs seem very well matched at the moment. Etsebeth vs Attwood should be a good tussle!

I with you Ulrich and Shelts, looking forward to this one. I think the Boks will take game, but not by great margin, and not overly confident in saying it, but just think they weren't all that bad last week. Be good test anyway I reckon!

I have to agree! I am slightly surprised by how lightly some of the posters on here are taking the current Ireland side. They're a very sharp outfit in my opinion.

 

[Ulrich]

Hey Shelts89,

I certainly don't take anything away from the Irish performance. They are a great side. What I am saying is that the Boks had great opportunities and really screwed up so many of them because they were hasty and didn't show any champion-like mettle in being patient.

As Bok supporters we ALWAYS get critical of our own team so it's not about disrespecting the Irish at all. We always feel we should win and that's that! On the Ire v Bok thread I happened to mention that I am sceptical about the game beforehand and I mentioned that the Boks have a tendency to believe the hype around them. Given how they played it would appear they lived up to this ideology and disrespected the Irish (kicking for the corner on 3 occasions rather than going for points being a case in point).

Unfortunately our arm-wrestling ability hinges on the tactical nous of our #9 and 10 and both gave less than satisfying performances in that regard this past weekend. Our forwards were not that bad but they were not great at making life easier for the halfbacks. None of our 9s on tour are known for their tactical game which is why du Preez and Pienaar are so sorely missed.

There is too much reliance on Willie to spark magic out of nothing. Pollard can surely play the tactical game, we've seen glimpses of it, but not if the pack don't front up and not if the 9 is giving him bad ball to work with.

So yes, a confident Lambie may be the way to go but I'd stick with Pollard for this game as well with next year in mind because we really need to see him prove himself. If he fails to impress behind a dominant pack and a good performance from the 9 then we can go to Lambie.

 

[Shelts89]

The 9 and 10 battles should be very interesting. I would rather have Danny Care than Hougaard. Though neither are particularly astute in the tactics department. Similar players, I just think Danny Care offers a bit more spark.

However I would take Pollard over Farrell any day of the week. Pollard has shown some really good glimpses of class in his short test career. Farrell has shown himself to be very pedestrian in all aspects of his game. I really wish Lancaster would take a risk and pick Ford. Or Burns if he could find some form. Unfortunately Burns is just too inconsistent really, as is Cipriani. Ford is very young and untested, but is tearing it up at club level this year. And if he wants a conservative 10 then Farrell still isn't even the best one in the country. Poor Myler must be really pissed that his dad isn;t one of the coaches.

 

[Ulrich]

From what I've read it seems Cipriani has changed a lot and his extremely limited opportunities coupled with his new maturity must make him a very hungry candidate so I don't think he'd be all that bad for you to be honest.

Can't say much about his consistency because I don't watch him weekly.

 

[Shelts89]

Consistency was always his problem, and that has really really improved over the last few seasons. He seems to finally be growing up, both on and off the field.

Most people I talk to about rugby would want him or Ford in at 10. especially considering Farrell has only played 1 game this year so far! he seems to be Lancaster's coaching kryptonite.

 

[JSRF10]

Guardian reporting England will line up with Ford at 10 and Farrell at 12. Should help their kicking game and give them a bit more creativity in midfield.

 

[Shelts89]

I would feel hard done by if I was Eastmond if that happens.

 

[Shelts89]

Happy about Ford at 10 though

 

[Antony]

I would feel hard done by if I was Eastmond if that happens.

Think Burgess is going to eventually slot in for you guys? I've never been too impressed by either Eastmond or Twelvetrees. It's the weakest in the side at the moment.

 

[Shelts89]

Think Burgess is going to eventually slot in for you guys? I've never been too impressed by either Eastmond or Twelvetrees. It's the weakest in the side at the moment.

Rumours from Bath seem to suggest he will be a backrower. Though if we did have him and Tuilagi in the centres it would be pretty brutal to defend against. It's easy to see why this would happen if you look at it from Baths perspective. At 12 they have; Eastmond (England international), Henson (Welsh International and B&I Lion), Devoto (Under 21's world cup winner I think, and has played for England vs the BaaBaas). At 13 we have; Jonathon Joseph (England International), Agulla (Argentinian International) and Banahan (England International, though crap). Where as Francois Louw is our only top quality backrower, and he is injured.

As for Eastmond, I don't think he has been too bad. Certainly a step above Twelvetrees. Despite his size he still makes his tackles which is always nice.

 

[GunsGermsRugbyandSteel]

Guardian reporting England will line up with Ford at 10 and Farrell at 12. Should help their kicking game and give them a bit more creativity in midfield.

The reason for that is Lancaster has identified the need to play a more expansive game v SA.

In selecting Farrell at inside centre he will be able to evolve from their traditional 10 man game to a more expansive 11 man game.

 

[ACT Crusader]

The reason for that is Lancaster has identified the need to play a more expansive game v SA.

In selecting Farrell at inside centre he will be able to evolve from their traditional 10 man game to a more expansive 11 man game.

Ford will show a little more endeavour than Farrell running the cutter.

I thought Farrell was far too conservative last week even when England had front foot ball. Ford has a decent running game and whilst not as good kick as Farrell, probably has a better passing game. The big thing for Ford will be confidence and dealing with the pressure.

 

[Antony]

Rumours from Bath seem to suggest he will be a backrower. Though if we did have him and Tuilagi in the centres it would be pretty brutal to defend against. It's easy to see why this would happen if you look at it from Baths perspective. At 12 they have; Eastmond (England international), Henson (Welsh International and B&I Lion), Devoto (Under 21's world cup winner I think, and has played for England vs the BaaBaas). At 13 we have; Jonathon Joseph (England International), Agulla (Argentinian International) and Banahan (England International, though crap). Where as Francois Louw is our only top quality backrower, and he is injured.

As for Eastmond, I don't think he has been too bad. Certainly a step above Twelvetrees. Despite his size he still makes his tackles which is always nice.

He's got buckley's chance of cracking the English side in the back-row. If he does it he must have earned it.

 

[PaarlBok]

The way I feel at the moment I dont care who Meyer pick. Look like he'll start with white gorilla, rienach, lambie and JPP. Breakdowns again will be problamatic without Brussouw and now without Battleship. Scrums is going to be much tougher but good to see Lambie & Reinach finally getting their crack. England by 50 my geuss.

 

[Dctarget]

Springboks – 15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Jan Serfontein, 12 Jean de Villiers (c), 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Cobus Reinach, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Schalk Burger, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Adriaan Strauss, 1 Beast Mtawarira.
Subs: 16 Bismarck du Plessis, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Coenie Oosthuizen, 19 Bakkies Botha, 20 Teboho Mohoje, 21 Francois Hougaard, 22 Handré Pollard, 23 Cornal Hendricks.

 

[Dctarget]

All things considered a very strong pack, I still believe South Africa are favorites for this game.