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Declining participation and ARU plans for the future

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
It's a self-full-filling prophecy though Reg.

The longer the ARU does nothing about the "silvertail" aspect of the game, where club rugby is rendered irrelevant once you hit 15 or 16 because School Rugby - we're destined for more of the same:

A poor following with an elitist tag preventing participation

That is a giant mental block to casual followers, and a giant block to casual players who are lost to the sport once U15's finish because there's noone to play for locally.


And due to the structure of rugby in Australia, something the ARU has little control over.

It's a complex problem to solve because the areas where rugby is strongest see a huge drop off at this age because the kids are playing rugby at private schools and have to cut down to one game a weekend.

In the areas where we could see bigger growth that aren't so impacted by private schools, we don't have nearly as many clubs and volunteers.

The grassroots game is run by volunteers. How do you grow the areas where the biggest growth potential is possible without the volunteer base?

Without vast sums of money, it's not something that can be easily solved because you're never going to be able to hire all the people required where there aren't the necessary number of volunteers.
 

joeyjohnz

Sydney Middleton (9)
we have a district based club competition up here.

I guess the ARU can chill out now.


I know. I played in it. I was a 10 year junior. Come U16's, the club season splits into 3 seasons. Pre, Mid & Post-season. Mid season literally runs during the GPS & AIC competitions because clubs can't field teams otherwise due to lads playing 1st XV. As such, many kids don't bother playing club post U15 in Brisbane.

3 divisions turn into 1. Players are lost to league & school and don't make it back to Colts. I was a 10 year junior at Norths and had to play for the mortal filthy enemy Brothers in 16's & 17's ffs - (and we had a very good age-group)

Making rep teams (bris-north, capricornia etc)at club level meant nothing as you never played a level above that. If the ARU is serious about Clubs & retaining players, first thing they could do is prioritize club footy (in NSW & QLD anyway).

Fund a national championship every year from 13's onwards with the merit teams selected from each members club state-champs. Get those lads playing NZ age group teams!

You'd get a helluva lot of athletes playing the game for a season if there was the prospect of playing for the "Aussie Club-boys" against NZ every year. Let alone a trip to Sydney/Bris/Melb! Do it from 13's onwards.

Come 16's give the Club-boys teams entry to the National champs.

You could fund it all at the cost of 1 ARU board members salary. There's a multitude of player & coaching benefits too.

Each club & state championship should be accompanied by Coaching workshops, run for free, targeted specifically at Parents. Most dads (&mums!) give an arm and a leg to watch their kids play. If they make it the 1700km from Cairns to Brisbane, The ARU should be funding free-walk-in workshops for anyone that wants to get involved in the game.

TLDR;
- club national-champs every year from 13's - 17's.
- Aussie Club-boys vs NZ Club-boys every year from 13-16's
- Coaching workshops at State & National Championships free-of-charge for parents that wish to attend.
 

Gary Owen III

Syd Malcolm (24)
The question is how to achieve this.

If the SJRU is in charge of junior rugby in Sydney, who can lean on them to make changes?

Does the NSWRU have any say on what they do?

Does the ARU have any direct ability to push the SJRU or do they need to lean on the NSWRU to then lean on the SJRU?

What is the power base in the SJRU? Is it mostly private school parents who want to have club rugby on Sundays so their kids can play both for as long as possible.

That is the difficulty with the fragmented nature of the many associations around the country. A relatively small but important association can make a decision which isn't for the greater good and the overall governing body can't do much to change it.

ARU have passed the buck on this to NSWRU.

I think you will find both SJRU and NSWRU support the concept of an U18's comp on a Saturday run at District level. SRU Board also on board and are presenting this same concept to the Shute Shield clubs for their support.

The idea of actually offering a meaningful pathway to club rugby players whom are outside of the private schools network being the target. Imagine if only a small percentage of those at public high schools participate then we may actually grow the game!!!

But of course what makes sense and what happens are not always the same!
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
The question is how to achieve this.

If the SJRU is in charge of junior rugby in Sydney, who can lean on them to make changes?

Does the NSWRU have any say on what they do?

Does the ARU have any direct ability to push the SJRU or do they need to lean on the NSWRU to then lean on the SJRU?

What is the power base in the SJRU? Is it mostly private school parents who want to have club rugby on Sundays so their kids can play both for as long as possible.

That is the difficulty with the fragmented nature of the many associations around the country. A relatively small but important association can make a decision which isn't for the greater good and the overall governing body can't do much to change it.

SJRU run it and it's a fairly unresponsive, arrogant association to deal with. Junior is only playing school this year, so thankfully I no longer have to deal with SJRU politics.

There seems to be enough clubs with private school dominated playing rosters to effectively torpedo change. If you want an idea on how ridiiculous things are there, here is an example:

In 10s to 12s, SJRU run a Friday night competition and a Sunday competition. You'd think that on that basis, clubs who want to play on Friday nights would go into the Friday night competition. Wrong. Because most of the teams in the Friday night competitions are from the Eastern and Southern suburbs, so the north shore clubs who want to play Friday nights (Chatswood, Hunters Hill and Lindfield in my experience), enter the Sunday competition and then ask SJRU to play all their home games on a Friday night. (Don't want to travel over the bridge do they) Unsurprisingly SJRU (who are dominated by such clubs) allow this to occur unless other clubs push the point (as my club did in our age group).

That's the sort of nonsense that you're up against.

Once we hit 13s, there comes the high school drop off point. Playing Sundays allows the teams with a high ration of private school players to keep going, but this only lasts a couple of years and then the physical demands of the game make it very difficult for boys to play Saturday and Sunday. This can often lead to the boys who are left (i.e. those not at a rugby playing school) without a team. It's all so unecessary and counter-productive.

If the nexus between village club rugby and district rep teams was broken and the rep stuff was played at the end of the season with school and club players all eligible. I gather that the reason many kids keep going in club is to play district reps.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
hmm, not sure if this would be on the top of my list for the ARU to achieve.

Very short-sighted response. It's where your future players come from. The calamity which has now hit the professional game is a direct result of what started 15 years ago at the bottom.
 

half

Dick Tooth (41)
And due to the structure of rugby in Australia, something the ARU has little control over.

It's a complex problem to solve because the areas where rugby is strongest see a huge drop off at this age because the kids are playing rugby at private schools and have to cut down to one game a weekend.

In the areas where we could see bigger growth that aren't so impacted by private schools, we don't have nearly as many clubs and volunteers.

The grassroots game is run by volunteers. How do you grow the areas where the biggest growth potential is possible without the volunteer base?

Without vast sums of money, it's not something that can be easily solved because you're never going to be able to hire all the people required where there aren't the necessary number of volunteers.


Very true and if I may also add. Public community parks are normally provided by councils at a pepper corn rent and most already have other codes well established on existing parks.

So in addition to getting the volunteers you need the use of council facilities already in use by other codes.

As QH keeps banging on about its years of neglect coming back and biting us on the bum.
 

zer0

John Thornett (49)
TLDR;
- club national-champs every year from 13's - 17's.
- Aussie Club-boys vs NZ Club-boys every year from 13-16's
- Coaching workshops at State & National Championships free-of-charge for parents that wish to attend.


As an aside, these don't exist. They'll all be playing schoolboy rugby. The closest you would get is provincial age grade.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
As an aside, these don't exist. They'll all be playing schoolboy rugby. The closest you would get is provincial age grade.

Back in the dim, dark past there used to be an annual Australia v NZ 16s match. Would be at least 25 years since the last one I think.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
If it is such a great game, why is it not more popular in Australia. These "clowns" have only been around for a short while, comparatively speaking. The game virtually died out at the international level in the early post-war years, we were saved by two enormously popular Fijian tours. Those teams played open, attractive, unstructured rugby. They drew ecstatic support from people who were just not all that interested in our game.


We have bobbed along ever since, sometimes thriving, comparatively, more often struggling.


It is not the game that is so wonderful, it is the culture of the game and the people who support and play it that is wonderful. If the game was so wonderful, things would be very very different.

You continue to go back to the amateur era and highlight the Fiji tours. I have deliberately and explicitly left the amateur era out of any criticism of the administrators. I've done this for two reasons; firstly because the world has changed and it's not valid to compare amateur and professional and secondly because amateur era officials did their best for no reward and put in their time after working all day at a real job.

You ask why other sports have thrived while we have gone backwards. Simply because other sports haven't just sat back and thought "our game is wonderful, we've always had plenty of young players, we don't have to do anything much, we'll just sit back and let it happen" What other sports have done is gone out and promoted themselves in areas not normally associated with their sport. They've actively gone into schools, as BAR indicated in his post and provided a specific example (I know of many such instances, including my old primary and high schools). League, Aussie Rules and soccer in a co-ordinated way driven from the top, have aggressively targeted areas where rugby used to be pre-eminent, while we just sat back and expected the players to keep playing rugby because they always did. Not a peep from highly paid professional administrators, no action, no plans, no strategy.

I realise that your view is that (a) rugby is doomed to fail in Australia and (b) that there is no correlation between the competence and performance of the administration to the performance of the organisation (interesting from someone who was involved in management BTW)

But, let's leave aside bigger, more cashed up sports. Let's compare ourselves to hockey, which in comparison to rugby is run off the smell of an oily rag. Constantly approaching schools to see if they are interested and will come to any school with paid DOs (not volunteers), with full kit (balls, sticks, shin pads & goalie suit) and run PE/sport sessions for the school. Guess what, Manly Warringah junior hockey has increased it's playing numbers by 400% in 5 years - 90 players 5 years ago and 360 registered last year. There will be another increase this year as I note that we've entered more teams.

I can tell you that Hockey Australia would have loved to have had $30 million dollars in the bank 15 years ago, coupled with the recognition that rugby had in Australia 1999 RWC champions, 2001 Lions tour and hosting RWC 2003. Talk about an organisation having a hand full of trumps to play. And what did the clowns do? Blew it all that's what.
 

CNorth

Herbert Moran (7)
So hockey worked with the schools ?? Yet hockey not played in a lot of schools I presume. Rugby is.
Enjoying the irony of your comment.

School based the answer.
 

Beer Baron

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Absolute myth, just an excuse from parents that don't want to have their whole weekend taken up by footy
silly parents- not wanting johnny training every night and playing both days.

club rugby will never overtake schoolboy rugby. but do agree they need to improve the club rep pathway.
Does the CHS side come from school state school teams or club players from state scool?? i think this where focus should be... time and effort in the non gps rep sides

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
So hockey worked with the schools ?? Yet hockey not played in a lot of schools I presume. Rugby is.
Enjoying the irony of your comment.

School based the answer.

No, hockey isn't played in schools. It's a club based competition - that's why it's so successful. The schools is a means to an end not an end.

I realise that the concept is somehow alien to your concept of running competitions through the schools.

So no, there's no irony there, just more evidence of your limited capacity to comprehend English,
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Absolute myth, just an excuse from parents that don't want to have their whole weekend taken up by footy
It's not a myth.
Most if not all GPS Schools have a policy of not "allowing" students to play additional games.

The MIC of one GPS School told me of their policy of dropping kids to 3's if they were "caught" playing for clubs.
There was the fiasco at Another GPS School , when a high profile student defied them, to play a final with his club.He changed Schools as a result...

A parent at yet another GPS School explained his Schools policy of not "allowing" kids to play club, when justifying why his kids would stop playing club when School Rugby commenced
Etc etc etc
 

CNorth

Herbert Moran (7)
No, hockey isn't played in schools. It's a club based competition - that's why it's so successful. The schools is a means to an end not an end.

I realise that the concept is somehow alien to your concept of running competitions through the schools.

So no, there's no irony there, just more evidence of your limited capacity to comprehend English,

No need for the personal attacks big fella. I'll put it down to to being exhausted from having the answers to all the first world problems.

One hand on the keyboard at all times warrior.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
So hockey worked with the schools ?? Yet hockey not played in a lot of schools I presume. Rugby is.
Enjoying the irony of your comment.

School based the answer.
And AFL is not played in many Schools.
Yet their policy (similar to Hockey on steroids) is to give kids exposure to their sport at School, and hope they join local clubs.
Both codes are growing exponentially.
 

CNorth

Herbert Moran (7)
And AFL is not played in many Schools.
Yet their policy (similar to Hockey on steroids) is to give kids exposure to their sport at School, and hope they join local clubs.
Both codes are growing exponentially.


And afl is the biggest growth sport within the school system. I agree with afl win the schools and u win
 
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