Continued decline in Sydney Junior Rugby
- Thread starter Quick Hands
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Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Which one?
So what we're doing leads to less teams, particuarly in the older age groups and what we were doing previously was more successful, so we should keep doing what we're doing and not revert to the more successful approaches?
One of the problems here is that the world hasn't stood still in the last decade. There are more kids in private schools these days, maybe even some of the Raptor kids are at private schools. You just might find moving to Saturdays further reduces the number of players and viable teams. The key to improving village rugby in the older years is probably found in being more flexible and encouraging as many kids as possible to play as many games as practicable, so they can develop their skills.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Having some kids playing two games a week isn't bringing in more players.
Lots of other kids play two games a week, instead of a second game of rugby most of them play league, some play soccer, others play afl or basketball. Playing 2 games of rugby or rugby and a game of league will improve kids rugby skills more quickly. As kids improve they tend to like it more and are more likely to play the game long term.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
I'm sure they do, but you've missed the point. Boys playing twice isn't increasing the number of players playing the game which is what we should be about. You see what's happened is that when teams used to lose a few players at 13s, they went out and found boys who weren't playing rugby to fill the gaps. This equals more boys playing. If they keep the school players playing there aren't those gaps to fill - so now most teams don't go out and recruit. When the physical toll of two games becomes too much at 15/16 there's a mass exodus and it's too late to recruit by then. So we actually end up with LESS boys playing.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
^^^^^^^This smells like a lot of common sense.
Rugby isn't compulsory at these schools, sport is. The schools don't care if they play rugby or soccer. The schools don't necessarily have the best coaching in the world, not every teacher aspires to coach a super rugby side. Much of their development comes from club rugby, where parents are involved. When the option of club rugby is removed many of these kids will move to soccer or AFL where they will be welcomed, they won't be playing school rugby either.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I don't think either system is without shortcoming in the coaching ranks - nor do you, it seems: so I'm not sure how "much of their" development can be said to come from the club ranks.
mous
Frank Nicholson (4)
Out west, there are not a lot of options to play junior club rugby. In general the sport is not offered in public schools as well as private schools out west bar Hurlstone Agriculture that I know of. I would like to think geographically that private schoolboy rugby is less of an issue in greater Sydney as opposed to Inner Sydney. The hurdle is facing the dominance of soccer and league within the area.
Maybe Parramatta Two Blues (Or specifically their junior department) could encourage or get in touch with subbies clubs within their district who currently don't have a junior setup. I came across the playing schedule of one of the local junior teams earlier in the year and found out that they had to travel as far Coogee on a friday night. I'd understand if it was for reps, but this is primary school aged kids we're talking about.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
If both teams are local (around 5 - 15 minutes drive in Friday Peak hour traffic) then Friday night rugby is awesome.
As soon as there is any commuting involved, it is an absolute nightmare if you have primary age kids. Not only getting kids to the oval in enough time for a bit of a warm up, but consider the commute home, shower, and dinner, and suddenly it is 10:30 pm when you can start getting them ready for bed. At this stage you have been on the go since 4pm to make the 6pm kick off game at Woop Woop Oval.
As soon as there is any commuting involved, it is an absolute nightmare if you have primary age kids. Not only getting kids to the oval in enough time for a bit of a warm up, but consider the commute home, shower, and dinner, and suddenly it is 10:30 pm when you can start getting them ready for bed. At this stage you have been on the go since 4pm to make the 6pm kick off game at Woop Woop Oval.
LucyPomPom
Frank Row (1)
am I the only person a bit confused by @loiterer's comments?! I'm not sure what point they are trying to make :/
There are not too many subbies clubs which don't have a junior team, it's just that there are not many subbies clubs, the subbies clubs in Parramatta district are below:
Hills - Seniors (Div 3 - 4 Grades + Colts) and strong Junior Club ~280 players
Dundas - Seniors (Div 6 - 1 Grade) and small juniors ~ 60 players
Blacktown - Seniors (Div 4 - 3 Grades) and small juniors ~ 70 players
Merrylands - Seniors (Div 6 - 1 Grade) - Juniors folded in 2012?
Rouse Hills - Seniors (Div 4 - 3 Grades) - Started Juniors 2014 ~ 20 players.
Norwest have a junior club (~100 players), but their subbies folded a few years back. They play out of the same oval as Blacktown Seniors.
As can be seen pretty much all subbies clubs have juniors (although in most cases they operate as seperate entities on seperate grounds), it's just that they have all been shrinking in recent years except for Hills. Eastwood district has also dropped a number of players in recent years. In Juniors clubs have the choice of Friday or Sunday competitions.
mous
Frank Nicholson (4)
Did Liverpool City Cougars juniors merge with Dundas juniors? I know they still operate out of Dwyer Oval. I've witnessed your point about juniors operating as separate entities to the seniors, do you think or have come across problems that have occurred because of this? Sometimes I question if whether or not it would be a good idea for NSW Rugby or the ARU to offer a club management/operations course along side the Foundation course they currently run for coaches/referees.
Blacktown and Merrylands have had success this year in their seniors. Hopefully a bit of that can rub off on strengthening and/or reestablishing their junior base. Can only ponder right now if whether Fairvale/Lansvale will ever have a junior base in the future.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
If there is no junior club structures (or Subbies Clubs looking to start a junior division) in place and local, then it doesn't matter what level of promotions, gala days, TryRugby activities and recruiting that the ARU development officers put on in "Sydney's West".
If there is not a conveniently located junior club and a reasonably commuter friendly competition ready for the "converts" to register with, then the numbers in the actual rugby participation pyramid will not increase.
Draw a 5km radius circle centred on Coogee oval. Half it is ocean and not many people live there. In the bit of the circle that is land (Watsons Bay to La Perouse to Tempe - population guess = about 200000 people to the nearest 50k). There are about 8 junior clubs that a kid could play for in that circle. Admittedly it is a target rich environment, but there are 8 groups of committed volunteers keen to provide opportunities for kids to enjoy rugby.
Do the same exercise with the Circle centred on Blacktown, Liverpool, Penrith or Campbelltown and see how many opportunities are there for a kid to play rugby within those respective circles.
To grow, not only do we need to get players interested in playing rugby in "Sydney's West", but there needs to be efforts to recruit volunteers, committee folk, coaches and referees and to establish more conveniently located village clubs and competitions.
If the Auburn Tigers AFL club can field a women's AFL team that is predominantly of the Islamic faith, then what is stopping Rugby trying to do similar with some of the various communities "out west"? (I know that AFL apparently have about 40 development officers "out west")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auburn_Tigers_Australian_Football_Club
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...ew-goal-with-afl/story-e6frg7mf-1226064412743
If there is not a conveniently located junior club and a reasonably commuter friendly competition ready for the "converts" to register with, then the numbers in the actual rugby participation pyramid will not increase.
Draw a 5km radius circle centred on Coogee oval. Half it is ocean and not many people live there. In the bit of the circle that is land (Watsons Bay to La Perouse to Tempe - population guess = about 200000 people to the nearest 50k). There are about 8 junior clubs that a kid could play for in that circle. Admittedly it is a target rich environment, but there are 8 groups of committed volunteers keen to provide opportunities for kids to enjoy rugby.
Do the same exercise with the Circle centred on Blacktown, Liverpool, Penrith or Campbelltown and see how many opportunities are there for a kid to play rugby within those respective circles.
To grow, not only do we need to get players interested in playing rugby in "Sydney's West", but there needs to be efforts to recruit volunteers, committee folk, coaches and referees and to establish more conveniently located village clubs and competitions.
If the Auburn Tigers AFL club can field a women's AFL team that is predominantly of the Islamic faith, then what is stopping Rugby trying to do similar with some of the various communities "out west"? (I know that AFL apparently have about 40 development officers "out west")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auburn_Tigers_Australian_Football_Club
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...ew-goal-with-afl/story-e6frg7mf-1226064412743
Oops, forgot about Liverpool. They have a small Junior presence of ~ 20 - 30 players. Pretty sure they do not have a subbies club at the moment. I have seen instances where the Juniors and Seniors essentially won't talk to each other through some long lost animosity of some description. I believe there is a huge amount of benefit that can be forthcoming to both the Junior club and the Senior club if they work together, but it happens very rarely.
Absolutely agree with you here that the biggest obstacle in getting more Junior clubs up and running is getting a core group of about 3-5 dedicated, passionate volunteers willing to commit a large amount of time for at least 3 years to get a club established. They will get pretty much zero help from anyone (particularly the ARU and NSW Rugby), and in fact will be taxed $200 per (probably from next year) per team for the privelidge of volunteering their time to Junior Rugby. When you consider starting off with 6 kids from an Under 6 team with $-200 in the bank, each kid paying $40 before Ground Hire (assuming you can even get a ground allocated from the council), Electricity, jerseys, equipment etc are taken into account you can see why getting a Junior club up and running is not an easy task. Particularly when Rugby League and AFL all get money and support from their governing bodies to do exactly the same thing..
The 2 development officers assigned to Western Sydney (well over 200+ schools) are driven by the KPI's given to them from the ARU, of which Junior Club setup and getting kids registered in Junior clubs is well down on their list.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Until the KPI's are adjusted, then we can only expect more of the same then.
Can't blame the Development Officers. They are paid stuff all, and have to do what they are told by their bosses and their bosses bosses.
Can't blame the Development Officers. They are paid stuff all, and have to do what they are told by their bosses and their bosses bosses.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
I'm completely confused. He's gone from arguing participation and is now arguing coaching qualifications. I'm not really sure what his point is either.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
I've been arguing this for years. But rugby has become obsessed with private schools to the point were apparently it's more important for some boys to have 2 games a week than it for more boys to play.
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