Continued decline in Sydney Junior Rugby

[Inside Shoulder]

I hope none of them ever fall off their motorbike or skateboard on the weekend the world could end.

I dont understand the point.
I saw this first hand recently - I assumed that the kid wold just play the extra game but he took the view it would letting the school team down if he did it.
I was pretty impressed frankly because i think it showed the right attitude to the team - sure the risks of injury might be small but team came first.

 

[Quick Hands]

In terms of ground availability, I can only speak for my local area. Keirle Park is allocated to rugby and sits idle most Saturdays - with 3 fields. Manly Savers use 1 field every 2nd week and Manly Roos minis use it 4 or 5 Saturdays a year for minis (which are played a rotating central venues. Nearby Nolan's Reserve used to have 3 fields dedicated to rugby, when the soccer people saw that they sat idle all day Saturday, they are now allocated to soccer.

 

[S'UP]

I dont understand the point.
I saw this first hand recently - I assumed that the kid wold just play the extra game but he took the view it would letting the school team down if he did it.
I was pretty impressed frankly because i think it showed the right attitude to the team - sure the risks of injury might be small but team came first.

If they all played club and school would that be an issue. My guess is no.

 

[Quick Hands]

Not quite accurate - when the comp went Sydney wide (as a Sunday based comp) the majority of teams transferred into the graded Sunday comp rather than hang around in the locality based Saturday comp. Friday Night & Saturday rugby is alive (sort of) in the west & south, but peters out after U12s.

Happy to be corrected on that.

 

[Quick Hands]

Some people are missing the point on the doubling up issue. The point isn't that some individuals pull out all the stops to be part of a team and play both whenever they can. The issue is that the competition is structured with the specific intent of accommodating private school players and when they reach 15 or 16, schools put pressure on them to drop club and often the physical nature of the contest makes it too hard. The league/union comparison would only hold water if we restructured out competition with the specific intent of allowing league players to play.

For example if Saturday juniors 13s played Saturdays and a player in that team also went to a GPS school, there would be some weeks that he could play both and other weeks that he would have to play school first. Just as is happening now, once the boy reached 15s or certainly 16s, the physicality of the two matches would see the boy play school only.

As an aside by playing 14s -17s on Sundays we actually prevent league players from giving rugby a try, as league switches to Sundays at 14s. (not that many GPS types would know about that )

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If they all played club and school would that be an issue. My guess is no.

I think we may be considering different ages.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Wouldn't all the school v's club arguement go away if parents didn't let the school dictate to them what their kids can do outside of school hours?
<snip> .

Apparently it is not outside of school hours. A teacher mate of mine was saying that Attendance at Saturday Sport was part of regular school attendance as required by the Board of Studies curriculum. The Board dictate that games are played while at School. Some schools chose to schedule these games during their "normal" Monday to Friday schooling.

Many Private Schools especially those in the AAGPS, CAS and ISA choose to schedule those periods on Saturdays.

Over a year of these Saturdays, the students have enough credit schooling hours "in the tank" that they can start their holidays a little earlier than the students in the CHS system. (That and the slightly earlier starts and later finishes each day also contribute).

 

[Man on the hill]

Every club is now encouraged to provide refs otherwise they cop it in the hip pocket.

I'm not sure i would put my house on the accuracy of that statement.

 

[Man on the hill]

Apparently it is not outside of school hours. A teacher mate of mine was saying that Attendance at Saturday Sport was part of regular school attendance as required by the Board of Studies curriculum. The Board dictate that games are played while at School. Some schools chose to schedule these games during their "normal" Monday to Friday schooling.

Many Private Schools especially those in the AAGPS, CAS and ISA choose to schedule those periods on Saturdays.

Over a year of these Saturdays, the students have enough credit schooling hours "in the tank" that they can start their holidays a little earlier than the students in the CHS system. (That and the slightly earlier starts and later finishes each day also contribute).

It’s also how they fit in the religious studies and many other co-curricular activities!

 

[I like to watch]

Apparently it is not outside of school hours. A teacher mate of mine was saying that Attendance at Saturday Sport was part of regular school attendance as required by the Board of Studies curriculum. The Board dictate that games are played while at School. Some schools chose to schedule these games during their "normal" Monday to Friday schooling.

Many Private Schools especially those in the AAGPS, CAS and ISA choose to schedule those periods on Saturdays.

Over a year of these Saturdays, the students have enough credit schooling hours "in the tank" that they can start their holidays a little earlier than the students in the CHS system. (That and the slightly earlier starts and later finishes each day also contribute).

I think he was referring to the Schools unofficial banning their students from playing Sundays.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^^ @ILTW, my comments were to address the belief that saturday sport was an optional activity and parents could pull their kids out of School Rugby to play club rugby on Saturdays (as in below)

Wouldn't all the school v's club arguement go away if parents didn't let the school dictate to them what their kids can do outside of school hours?
<snip>
So all parents please tell the school that little or big Johnny will be playing rugby on sundays if he wants to. What can they do kick you out of the school? <snip>.

(boldfaced bit) Umm, yes they can. Private Schools are under no obligation to educate pupils who chose to not follow School Rules.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Village Club registration is now in full swing.

Anyone close to the coal face care to comment on any surges in registrations for Under 15 and Under 17 age groups on the back of the Junior Gold Programme/Cup?

 

[I like to watch]

^^^^ @ILTW, my comments were to address the belief that saturday sport was an optional activity and parents could pull their kids out of School Rugby to play club rugby on Saturdays (as in below)

Umm,no they can't.
Read the sentence immediately before the one you bolded.
He is specifically talking about Schools bullying kids into not playing Sundays.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I wasn't talking about the junior gold cup, I was talking about the national gold program for the so called elite kids. apologies for the confusion

The various Gold Squads, Talent Squads as they have been in previous incarnations come in for a bit of criticism from time to time. Perhaps rightly so when it is pointed out that most of the Muppeteers (Beale, Cooper, O'Connor)* were part of the elite programme.

For every Muppeteer that has come out of NGS/NTS/Elite Training Programmes ( and there have been a few outside the usual suspects of Beale/O'Connor/Cooper), the same Koala Club environment has produced the likes of Michael Hooper, David Pocock or Liam Gill.

I suspect that ARU have recognised that certain "entitled" and WII-FM behaviours are not good for the future of the game, and there has been a big push in recent times at residential Schools Tournaments and the Gold Programmes to include Life Skills education into the programme.


* Not even sure that all or any of these were in the NTS/NGS (or previous incarnations), but they would have been part of some rugby "elite youth" development programme in their teens. Joeys, f'rinstance, apparently due to logistics issues with boarders have not traditionally supported NGS and the 4 days a week off season training commitment. It is hard to think that KB (Kurtley Beale) was therefore in the NGS or equivalent. (splitting hairs).

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Read the sentence immediately before the one you bolded.
He is specifically talking about Schools bullying kids into not playing Sundays.

Yes you are right.
Maybe I had misinterpreted the comment along the lines that Parents shouldn't let schools dictate to kids what the kids are to do between 3:30 pm Friday and 9am Monday, therefore School games on Saturdays were an optional activity, and Kids should be free to play Village Club footy on Saturdays if they so desire.

On the Pre-High School sidelines, that was a sentiment I often heard tossed around.

While many School Coaches do actively discourage kids at open grade level, and those in the 16A's, from playing village club footy, I know of quite a few, mostly from CAS and ISA schools that have played both School and Club footy all the way through High School.

Player fatigue can be an issue with these kids though, as they are often also in District and School rep teams as well, playing and/or training nearly every day of the week. When do they find time to study for their HSC?

 

[Wood Rat]

The various Gold Squads, Talent Squads as they have been in previous incarnations come in for a bit of criticism from time to time. Perhaps rightly so when it is pointed out that most of the Muppeteers (Beale, Cooper, O'Connor)* were part of the elite programme.

For every Muppeteer that has come out of NGS/NTS/Elite Training Programmes ( and there have been a few outside the usual suspects of Beale/O'Connor/Cooper), the same Koala Club environment has produced the likes of Michael Hooper, David Pocock or Liam Gill.

I suspect that ARU have recognised that certain "entitled" and WII-FM behaviours are not good for the future of the game, and there has been a big push in recent times at residential Schools Tournaments and the Gold Programmes to include Life Skills education into the programme.
.

Not only the students, but the parents too, are invited to a separate sessions. Attendees are left with no misapprehension that the quality of the personal behaviour is highly significant and that no one is above reprimand. this was highlighted with examples. Students and parents are assisted by the provision of tools to assist with decision making in a variety of circumstances. For some this has been an exercise repeated several times a year over the past few years.

unfortunately it is the falling down of the group mentioned first that we read more about then the easily forgotten, positive contributions others may make.
I appreciate the sentiments by S'up, but having known a number of the attendees for a few years now, some since pre-teens (and seen some "Kick their toes") the courtesy and confidence with which they carry themselves is an asset to the game not a liability. I don't expect this will change as a result of attending this facility.

 

[Fat Cat]

I'm not sure i would put my house on the accuracy of that statement.
Man on the hill, Yesterday at 6:02 PM Report
#188
Unless things have changed (because they pay junior referees to encourage more people to become refs), the more referees that a village clubs provides they get a rebate off their per game fees. I wont put my house on it yet but I will check if that is still the case. If your club provides no referees your club pays full freight.

 

[Gary Owen III]

I'm not sure i would put my house on the accuracy of that statement.
Man on the hill, Yesterday at 6:02 PM Report
#188
Unless things have changed (because they pay junior referees to encourage more people to become refs), the more referees that a village clubs provides they get a rebate off their per game fees. I wont put my house on it yet but I will check if that is still the case. If your club provides no referees your club pays full freight.

At the junior club level referees are provided by the three referee associations (north, south and west) through a central appointments officer. All referees (old and young) are paid per match. The referees are then asked how they would like these funds dispersed. Options are to take the cash, donate to your junior club or donate to the referees association.

I am told that up until a few years ago that many referees donated these back to their clubs - which equals cheaper referees for the clubs. This apparently doesn't happen as much any more.

Before the zones joined I believe MWZ didn't pay older refs and may have rebated clubs that provided these refs.

 

[CatchnPass]

^^^^ @ILTW, my comments were to address the belief that saturday sport was an optional activity and parents could pull their kids out of School Rugby to play club rugby on Saturdays (as in below)


(boldfaced bit) Umm, yes they can. Private Schools are under no obligation to educate pupils who chose to not follow School Rules.
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The 2012/3 case of a high profile Aust schoolboys player, ex-Kings moving to Barker in Year 12 was instructive. No, he wasn't kicked out for playing Club when told by the school not to, but life was made very difficult and he chose to relocate rather than live with it for year 12.

 

[Quick Hands]

I understand that from registrations so far, that in every age group from 13s to opens in the Manly JRU will involve composite teams from one or more of the village clubs. This is my 3rd run through junior club rugby (4th if you count my playing days in the 70s) and each time I've been back it's structurally weaker. A traditional rugby area like Manly is struggling to put junior club teams on the field right down at 13s - I almost can't believe it.

If Sunday junior club rugby is working so well; Why is this so? (apologies to Julius Sumner-Miller)