Cheetahs vs Waratahs - 2011R05
- Thread starter PaarlBok
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#1 and RF I don't understand the love for Fitzpatrick. He was rubbish against the Crusaders. had no impact at all and was exposed for a lack of physicality. The one thing the Cheetahs have going for them is physicality, and so the Tahs will need it in spades this week. Ulugia is a smart selection, the front row looks much stronger with him and Fatcat there.
And for the record I think Fitzy would struggle for a start everywhere. At the moment he is the 8th best hooker in Australia in my eyes, behind (in no order) Fainga'a, Hanson, TPN, Moore, Edmonds, Robinson and Whittaker.
And for the record I think Fitzy would struggle for a start everywhere. At the moment he is the 8th best hooker in Australia in my eyes, behind (in no order) Fainga'a, Hanson, TPN, Moore, Edmonds, Robinson and Whittaker.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
I would add Charles to your list Barbar. The Crusaders game, a few last year and reports of his effort for the Juniors on the weekend have him last in the order IMO.
A great pity because I would've rated him closer to the top at the start of last year. I can understand his demotion, it is now up to him to earn his spot back and really start playing to his potential.
spectator
Bob Davidson (42)
I think people are being a little harsh on Fitzpatrick. Probably doesn't deserve the adulation shown by the forum's Gen Y'ers but he is only 21 and that's young for a hooker. He'll get more robust and physical that's for sure.
He probably suffers a bit from being a bit of a poster boy since his days as the skipper of the very successful 07 schoolboys ( eight of whom have played Super rugby by the way). He was very mobile and physical and seemed a good leader, and was always being touted for bigger things.
I agree that he is behind the others at the moment but give him time.
He probably suffers a bit from being a bit of a poster boy since his days as the skipper of the very successful 07 schoolboys ( eight of whom have played Super rugby by the way). He was very mobile and physical and seemed a good leader, and was always being touted for bigger things.
I agree that he is behind the others at the moment but give him time.
If he does, it would highlight a pea heart and good riddance.
He needs to stop trying to play like Edmonds and start playing like Moore.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
There really hasn't been any massive problems with the fitz until the saders game. I don't see why there is so much hate around. That said, the tahs coaching staff including mic foley watch the guy all week at training and hours of footage of him, so if there going to make the call good on them. He is behind TPN for the next 2 years at least, so if he walks he walks and he can try to stand out between to lesser props, cos if he can't do it holding onto fat cat and fuse he has little chance elsewhere.
The tahs team looks good though, excited to see it and hope turner has a blinder and cross finds the bench a permanent home.
The tahs team looks good though, excited to see it and hope turner has a blinder and cross finds the bench a permanent home.
#1 Tah
Chilla Wilson (44)
Fixed.
Finsbury Girl
Trevor Allan (34)
All I can say is C'MON VRYSTAAT!
RugbyFuture
Lord Logo
He's a hard as player for Eastwood and is awesome at his peak.
ru1906
Frank Row (1)
Regarding Fitzpatrick everyone must keep in mind his age and experience at the Super Rugby level.
At 21, his rugby future is ahead of him and with the right organisation he will thrive as he has a fantastic foundation. As for the game against the Crusaders, when he came on the Waratahs were already suffering from an increasing number of mental breakdowns.
I am disappointed with the others in the "tight five"; they didn't refocus, adjust and consolidate with Damien at hooker. Who is the leader of the tight five? The tight five has to play as one; a unified and inseparable unit in the scrums. If the tight five with Damien had stepped up, compensated and gotten tighter when Damien came in, they would not have allowed the Crusader tight five to disrupt our play.
As to DF's other play that evening (i.e. defence, breakdowns, etc) I didn't see any errors with his biggest "crime" being he didn't stand out like TNP.
He has the raw skills and the right work ethic, which together with experience should reward both him and the Waratahs in time.
As to Johnny U and Damien against the Cheetahs, I think we will see a good performance from both, but it is a team game especially in the tight five.
At 21, his rugby future is ahead of him and with the right organisation he will thrive as he has a fantastic foundation. As for the game against the Crusaders, when he came on the Waratahs were already suffering from an increasing number of mental breakdowns.
I am disappointed with the others in the "tight five"; they didn't refocus, adjust and consolidate with Damien at hooker. Who is the leader of the tight five? The tight five has to play as one; a unified and inseparable unit in the scrums. If the tight five with Damien had stepped up, compensated and gotten tighter when Damien came in, they would not have allowed the Crusader tight five to disrupt our play.
As to DF's other play that evening (i.e. defence, breakdowns, etc) I didn't see any errors with his biggest "crime" being he didn't stand out like TNP.
He has the raw skills and the right work ethic, which together with experience should reward both him and the Waratahs in time.
As to Johnny U and Damien against the Cheetahs, I think we will see a good performance from both, but it is a team game especially in the tight five.
Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
I think that the assumption that young Fitzpatrick is to blame for the Waratah scrum suddenly performing as if on roller skates is unfair. Having watched the game live I looked at the replay the next morning, paying particular attention to the scrums. What was obvious throughout the game was that the Waratah pack had inadequate leg extension compared to the Crusaders. It can be seen that the joint angles at the hip and knee for the Waratahs were on average perhaps 15˚ more acute than for the Crusaders. What I mean is if a Waratah player had hip and knee joint angles of 90˚ his Crusader counterpart would have angles of say 105˚.
We all know how much easier it is to do a partial squat than a squat to parallel. Biomechanically, our ability to resist and apply force declines significantly as we close the joint angles.
I suspect that, given their more efficient body positioning, the Crusaders were applying superior force right from the first scrum and the Waratahs were exhausting themselves in holding them. The fact that Polota-Nau went into the game with a dodgy shoulder lends weight to this supposition.
Everyone knows how sneaky Kiwis are and their propensity to take unfair advantage of any weakness in the opposition. So my supposition is that seeing a relatively inexperienced hooker come on and knowing that the Waratah front rowers would be focussed on readjusting, the Crusaders' pack leader called for a massive effort on that scrum.
Now whether it is in the spirit of the game to pull a stroke like that knowing that your opponents aren't ready for it can be debated, but it was very possibly a game changing call.
We all know how much easier it is to do a partial squat than a squat to parallel. Biomechanically, our ability to resist and apply force declines significantly as we close the joint angles.
I suspect that, given their more efficient body positioning, the Crusaders were applying superior force right from the first scrum and the Waratahs were exhausting themselves in holding them. The fact that Polota-Nau went into the game with a dodgy shoulder lends weight to this supposition.
Everyone knows how sneaky Kiwis are and their propensity to take unfair advantage of any weakness in the opposition. So my supposition is that seeing a relatively inexperienced hooker come on and knowing that the Waratah front rowers would be focussed on readjusting, the Crusaders' pack leader called for a massive effort on that scrum.
Now whether it is in the spirit of the game to pull a stroke like that knowing that your opponents aren't ready for it can be debated, but it was very possibly a game changing call.
T
TOCC
Guest
which NSW forumers was it claiming that Fitzpatrick was the third best hooker in the country prior to the S15(behind Moore and TPN)??
Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
''I CAN do anything through Him who gives me strength,'' believes the Waratahs' latest bolter.
So much so that John Ulugia had the biblical quotation tattooed across his sizeable back, upon which much responsibility now rests.
Ulugia (pronounced Oo-loong-eeah) heard that saying daily from his grandmother
It reminds me of the story of the priest attending a boxing match. One of the boxers climbed into the ring and crossed himself. A bloke sitting alongside the priest asked: "Do you think that will help him, Father?" "Not unless he can fight." was the reply.
On the subject of biblical inspiration, after the Crusader debacle I wonder if any of the 'Tahs thought of getting "Jesus wept" tattooed on some prominent part of their anatomy.
So much so that John Ulugia had the biblical quotation tattooed across his sizeable back, upon which much responsibility now rests.
Ulugia (pronounced Oo-loong-eeah) heard that saying daily from his grandmother
It reminds me of the story of the priest attending a boxing match. One of the boxers climbed into the ring and crossed himself. A bloke sitting alongside the priest asked: "Do you think that will help him, Father?" "Not unless he can fight." was the reply.
On the subject of biblical inspiration, after the Crusader debacle I wonder if any of the 'Tahs thought of getting "Jesus wept" tattooed on some prominent part of their anatomy.
MrTimms
Ken Catchpole (46)
Am I the only one who reads that in an Irish accent?
Dat'd be a no!
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Bruce,
Gold indeed. Preists can have a lot of common sense when it comes to sport. There was one at Blackrock College, one of the Ireland rugby factories, many years ago, and he was also one of the coaches there. He said that "The most important thing next to the Grace of God is quick ball from the ruck." Some may have it the other way around, but he knew his rugby, didn't he?
An interesting post on the joint angles at the hip and knee at scrum time. Doesn't sound too hard to get it right but I imagine it is not the case.
As for Fitz: it's a bit unusual to see folks so polarised about a 21 year old though a bit of sniggering from an expected quarter was not. He won't be the first 21 year old hooker to meet with disappointment as a professional player and nor will he be the last. The important point will not be that he was demoted but how he deals with it.
Thanks for posting that article on Ulugia. He's another fellow that has met with adversity and now he's getting a shot. Good for him; we all wish him well. Let's hope that his lineout throwing is better than it has been for the JWs.
Good to see that Turner is getting a shot at 13. Many of us said that we wanted him there if Horne wasn't ready for the opening of the season and now we have our wish, more or less. He went OK there in a trial but how will he go in a S15 game? He will do his CV for the Wallabies no harm if he can play as well as he did against Fiji.
Gold indeed. Preists can have a lot of common sense when it comes to sport. There was one at Blackrock College, one of the Ireland rugby factories, many years ago, and he was also one of the coaches there. He said that "The most important thing next to the Grace of God is quick ball from the ruck." Some may have it the other way around, but he knew his rugby, didn't he?
An interesting post on the joint angles at the hip and knee at scrum time. Doesn't sound too hard to get it right but I imagine it is not the case.
As for Fitz: it's a bit unusual to see folks so polarised about a 21 year old though a bit of sniggering from an expected quarter was not. He won't be the first 21 year old hooker to meet with disappointment as a professional player and nor will he be the last. The important point will not be that he was demoted but how he deals with it.
This is the fellow that turned down a full contract at the Force as a teenager and backed himself by accepting a spot in the Tahs pro academy. Pea heart?
Thanks for posting that article on Ulugia. He's another fellow that has met with adversity and now he's getting a shot. Good for him; we all wish him well. Let's hope that his lineout throwing is better than it has been for the JWs.
That brought back early memories of watching the NFL in the US many decades ago. Let's hope that this Johnny U can have a golden arm on Saturday as the other did many times.
Good to see that Turner is getting a shot at 13. Many of us said that we wanted him there if Horne wasn't ready for the opening of the season and now we have our wish, more or less. He went OK there in a trial but how will he go in a S15 game? He will do his CV for the Wallabies no harm if he can play as well as he did against Fiji.
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