CatchnPass
Vay Wilson (31)
So 15As goes to the wire in final round next weekend with Aloys and Waves on 2 losses each and Knox on 1. Assuming A & W win next weekend, it all comes down to Barker v Knox.
CAS Rugby 2015
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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jeff thomson
Herbert Moran (7)
Good game?
rugbyking2
Allen Oxlade (6)
'Sideline View' while I do see your point of view it is very harsh to critique the second and third XV in that way. If I am not mistaken the third XV have only lost one game while the seconds would be sitting approximately 3rd on the metaphorical ladder. Credit where credit is due, these teams played good rugby all year, so lets not diminish their results by downplaying their competition.
Additionally I think the 10 in the seconds has had a very good year by the games I have seen and should, at minimum get a run off the bench against Trinity. He attacks the line well with the ball in two hands which for mine is a must for a good 10 at schoolboy level. He uses Waverley's tall 12 as his go to man. Would like to see him get a run in the first XV this week.
S
sidelineview
Guest
I didn't diminish the results of the 2nds and 3rds; i applaud them. The 3rds look like they might win the comp. I didn't diminish the efforts of the 2nds number 10 either; I like the way he plays as well.
I put it into perspective in comparison to the 1sts competition and in relation to the quality of the opposition.
To assume the 2nds number 10 could step up to 1sts XV level and overshadow Jordan and/or Narayan, two very skillful players is a big call. I think the efforts of those two players were being downplayed. If the 2nds flyhalf gets a run off the bench next week, then good luck to him; he deserves it, but lets not get carried away with inferred criticism of the regular 1sts players. Playing in the 1sts is obviously harder than competing in the 2nds comp.
Scott Coleman has done a great job with the 2nds and teacher Frost has done a great job with the 3rds but Cornish is a proven schoolboy coach with a good record and his offsider Maloney is a proven coach and excellent communicator and motivator, so lets not disrespect them either with inferred criticism.
There are different factors as to why the Waverley 1sts haven't set the world on fire this year but i wont repeat what has already been mentioned.
It's no use crying over spilt milk or harping on about what should or could have been; the 1sts have done well in the last couple of weeks and hopefully finish on a positive note next week.
haha No but doubt it would be accepted anyway, that's not the point. I doubt these coaches are precious about opinions of others it goes with the territory and as coaches they certainly have my respect but that won't stop constructive observations of games. I'm new to this sideline commentary and find it healthy and a good way to throw ideas out there. The beauty is they can be completely ignored which in most cases probably are. re the No 10 was trying to guess a team for next year not suggest the current 10's should be replaced. They are both very classy players. Not knocking the effort either in fact applauded it. Agree the defence was bloody awesome however I stand by the last comment about defensive mode in the last 10 minutes. Waverley gave the ball back to Aloys inviting them to attack. It happens and they will be better for the experience just calling it as I saw it.
Why do you think Waverley hasn't set the world on fire this year?
S
sidelineview
Guest
OK, then you wont get too precious about yourself if someone criticises your opinions which in my opinion, have leveled inferred criticism at the 1sts coaches and coaching programme and players.
You're entitled to express your criticisms and opinions; some of that criticism has been warranted and you've made some good points. Some of it has been over the top and pie in the sky stuff; throw away lines that are easy to make. I'm just throwing up arguments for you to have a think about.
Re the 10's and backs in the 1sts, I can't recall you saying anything good about them but you have described rugby Utopia in what you'd like to see happen in general. I wonder if a coach/es would need more than one year to reach those lofty standards ... and I know the overall coaching programme has been discussed but the 1sts coaches work with the players they have available on the roster.
Re the coaches, do you really think the 2nds and 3rds coaches would have done a better job with the 1sts just because their teams have achieved some good results in their respective competitions? ... open to speculation.
You needed to open both eyes regarding the last 10-15 minutes. Both teams made mistakes, gave penalties away and gifted the opposition the ball and opportunities in the second half. Someone in the Aloys camp will probably be saying the same thing about their team but that would be putting too fine a point on it as well.
It may have been due to the intensity of the contest, the pressure of taking the right option at the right time for schoolboy players, fatigue, the bounce of the ball, an over exuberant play resulting in a penalty, a kick just going out on the full by inches, a bit of luck either way ..... There would be a long list of little things that swayed the result of the game for both teams and the post game analyses will reveal that. There will also be good plays and try saving tackles revealed.
The first 10 minutes of the game beat Waverley more than the last 10.
Would you have still adopted a condescending attitude had Narayan kicked the penalty goal on the bell and won the game?
It's already been discussed: a variety of reasons but they've proven they can score points if they win and maintain their reasonable share of possession.
Over to you Maestro. I'll be interested to hear your opinion about why Aloys decided to take a penalty kick for a draw with only about 4 or 5 minutes remaining rather than go for the win.
Elfster
Alex Ross (28)
Dour as in a tight arm struggle. It was a good game to watch, with some nice tries.
It took them a while this year, but the Cranbrook team showed a fair bit of ability. Looking on the previous last 4 rounds, they, with Knox were the form side of the comp and deservedly so. And they have depth, their 2nd looked good. Some of their players there wouldn't be out of place in the 1sts. I would rate their forward pack in at least the top three of the CAS.
The Cranbrook 7 looked good and their captain deserves a place in a CAS 1sts team. The Knox 7 was one of the better players, making some good runs and winning some crucial turnovers (and probably should have won more but for the vagaries of the referee..).
SonnyDillWilliams
Nev Cottrell (35)
Sideline .., your language is so emotive. Chill bra.
Rugby season is almost over, what are you going to do .
Cornish and Maloney are an awesome combo .. Love both of them .. And reckon if they continue for next few years they are a very good chance at thet title
I hope Maloney catches up with whoever burgled him ... He would tear them apart ... Love his passion... And he is real world
Re the last try that sunk cranbrook it came off a lineout throw to the front
Bit of a bugbear of mine, as meant to go 5 metres ... Brook team didn't blow- up, I know knox would off
But even at international level, the 5 metre rule is seldom enforced ... Think it needs to be refreshed
Either way cranbrook should have been ready for that play ... So full credit to knox ..a very professional outfit
Rugby season is almost over, what are you going to do .
Cornish and Maloney are an awesome combo .. Love both of them .. And reckon if they continue for next few years they are a very good chance at thet title
I hope Maloney catches up with whoever burgled him ... He would tear them apart ... Love his passion... And he is real world
Re the last try that sunk cranbrook it came off a lineout throw to the front
Bit of a bugbear of mine, as meant to go 5 metres ... Brook team didn't blow- up, I know knox would off
But even at international level, the 5 metre rule is seldom enforced ... Think it needs to be refreshed
Either way cranbrook should have been ready for that play ... So full credit to knox ..a very professional outfit
S
sidelineview
Guest
I'm just giving him a challenge to back up his dialogue and clarify his broad swipes. He'll be OK.
I'll probably find something to do, don't worry too much SonnyDill.
Do me a favour and tip Trinity next week will you?
Ok fair call so I'll cop the criticism all except the maestro bit. At the risk of being made to look very foolish I'm happy to debate you point for point however in fairness to all lets leave player and coach criticism out of this as they do try hard and effort is there for all to see. They turn up week after week, never throw in the towel and compete so have my utmost respect.
First point regarding the 10s. Both good players with high skill levels. In fact probably the highest in the comp and from what I was told these guys both made worthy contributions to the CAS rep season. Whatever the reason there seemed to be a struggle with forward and back transitions so that phases resulted in consistency and structure. There may have been some other intent which I missed and if so then I'd be keen to undertsand it as each coach has his own way of achieving desired results. You seem to have a better idea of the workings than I. On the occasion that it has it has invariably resulted in good go forward play for the team. In fairness against Aloys there were some very positive signs of it happening which resulted in some great meters gained.
On the overall coaching programme I'd prefer not to comment as it's not my place to suggest or otherwise say what should be, that is up to the school. The only thing I have agreed with others on is perhaps the use of outside help where and if required.
The comment about a coaches tenure is well placed. One game does not make a coach and with commentaries such as yours and mine even if only one point is regarded then something positive will have come out of debates like these.
Regarding the coaches from lower grades my commentary stays. Whatever the reasons they achieved solid structured go forward rugby. Could they do that at a higher level who knows but it begs the question of 'how was that achieved' they were up against the 2nd and 3rd best teams in opposing schools. Maybe open to speculation but only if their achievements were a result of luck and not planned.
Ok you called me out on the last 10 minutes again. When a team has been in an arm wrestle for the majority of the game and especially in the Aloys game where the fight back was magnificent and lungs are burning. There are probably two serious ways to enter into the last 10-15mins of the game. The first is to try and maintain intensity and keep attacking and the bench is used to add speed and accuracy to the breakdown to keep possession, so not really sure how Waverley deal with that. The second is to understand how it can be possible to close a game out when the game is in the balance . On this occasion our lineouts and scrums worked really well so congrats to coaches and players alike. This gave us much needed ball possession dominance which on the back of the lads converted into points. However ...wait for it..the last 10 minutes we went away from keeping the ball close to us and relying on those strengths from restarts to opening the game up with long kicks. Had the kicks have gone out consistently (and I rate the 10's kicking ability highly he has a great boot) then the result may have changed but closing a game out doesn't necessarily require a long boot. More often a short kick with pressure added to turn ball over or bundle them into touch and get the restart. Lets just say these are options that work among others I'm sure.
Had the goal have been kicked and it was a bloody big ask my observations would not have changed. It would have meant Waverley gave themselves a chance to win at the death and the rugby gods weren't with them at that moment, that's the beauty of the game. If I have come across as condescending I apologise wasn't intended just a passionate rugby head.
Who knows why Aloys kicked for a draw, maybe thay gave themselves a chance of snatching victory with another penalty. It was doubtful they would have scored a try the Waverley defence was rock solid. Best ask them.
Agreed they can score points and lot's of them and that is the killer about having expectations around such a talented bunch of players. Why didn't it happen consistently... your point about coaches needing more time is probably pertinent here but unfortunately at school level it's a bit like the short stay ward unless the coach can start with them early and hold them until they complete Yr12. Just a thought it's probably already been done I expect. Anyway debating these things may help us understand why. Personally I'd rather do it over a beer or two but then I'd start believng we could fix the Adam Goodes saga as well and that ain't going to happen in a hurry.
I 'm not sure you have answered my question around why Waverley haven't lived up to expectation this year? I think it's too easy to say 'it's already been discussed'.
Anyway happy to leave it there and agree to disagree on some points. Appreciate the debate and look forward to a Waverley win next week. I may have a Black heart but but my next most loved team is the Double V.
S
sidelineview
Guest
Re 'lenny'
Fair enough mate but lets spare a thought for blokes who put their hands up to coach at schools like Waverley where the resources are limited and in any given age group, depending on the age group, some or a lot of the boys are league players rather than union players. And where the quality of the talent pool can vary significantly between age groups.
I would say the current crop of Year 11s are predominately league players, Year 10 union players and Year 9 league. I'm not too sure about the younger years.
Of course, they all play union from Year 7 but don't always receive expert coaching. Sometimes they get lucky like the 13As and Bs last year who were coached by a father of one of the boys and ex-international Warwick Waugh. They had some serious talent in the teams and the way they played was impressive with all things considered. I'm not too sure if he's still coaching.
But at other times, teams will get a teacher to coach them. That teacher does his best but may not have played the game much and may be anything but an ''expert'' coach. They make up the numbers and give it their best shot.
That wouldn't happen in a school like Knox where their coaching programme is well resourced.
Therefore, when the players get to the Opens age group the coaches get what they get. The players, as talented as they may be as many of the league boys are, will have been well coached, half well coached or not well coached at all, purely from a rugby perspective. I've noticed that some of the league boys playing in the 1sts tend to lose the ball at the breakdown a bit more often than other players. I can only assume that's because of obvious reasons. I wouldn't expect the 1sts coaches to remedy that overnight.
Waverley has been blessed with a good share of talent in the open age groups this season and the 2nds and 3rds coaches have done a great job with what they've got, and they've got some talent. However, I wouldn't begin to relate that or compare it with the 1st XV team. I wouldn't go there for fear of inferring something about the 1sts coaches that's not necessarily true. There can be a huge gap between the standards of 1sts and 2nds CAS rugby. Competing against the awesome 1st XV Knox forward pack and more recently the Cranbrook pack stands alone as a challenge for any coach and any pack of forwards.
No, you cant sell me on the last 10 minute theory; we can agree to disagree. Both teams made mistakes and gave penalties away under the circumstances. Both teams did enough to miss out on a win and enough to gain a draw. Analyzing it to the nth degree and applying rugby text book theories doesn't add up. Considering all the ''what if's'' doesn't count for much IMHO. It was schoolboy rugby and it was entertaining. The result of the game was determined over the full 70 minutes.
Fair enough mate but lets spare a thought for blokes who put their hands up to coach at schools like Waverley where the resources are limited and in any given age group, depending on the age group, some or a lot of the boys are league players rather than union players. And where the quality of the talent pool can vary significantly between age groups.
I would say the current crop of Year 11s are predominately league players, Year 10 union players and Year 9 league. I'm not too sure about the younger years.
Of course, they all play union from Year 7 but don't always receive expert coaching. Sometimes they get lucky like the 13As and Bs last year who were coached by a father of one of the boys and ex-international Warwick Waugh. They had some serious talent in the teams and the way they played was impressive with all things considered. I'm not too sure if he's still coaching.
But at other times, teams will get a teacher to coach them. That teacher does his best but may not have played the game much and may be anything but an ''expert'' coach. They make up the numbers and give it their best shot.
That wouldn't happen in a school like Knox where their coaching programme is well resourced.
Therefore, when the players get to the Opens age group the coaches get what they get. The players, as talented as they may be as many of the league boys are, will have been well coached, half well coached or not well coached at all, purely from a rugby perspective. I've noticed that some of the league boys playing in the 1sts tend to lose the ball at the breakdown a bit more often than other players. I can only assume that's because of obvious reasons. I wouldn't expect the 1sts coaches to remedy that overnight.
Waverley has been blessed with a good share of talent in the open age groups this season and the 2nds and 3rds coaches have done a great job with what they've got, and they've got some talent. However, I wouldn't begin to relate that or compare it with the 1st XV team. I wouldn't go there for fear of inferring something about the 1sts coaches that's not necessarily true. There can be a huge gap between the standards of 1sts and 2nds CAS rugby. Competing against the awesome 1st XV Knox forward pack and more recently the Cranbrook pack stands alone as a challenge for any coach and any pack of forwards.
No, you cant sell me on the last 10 minute theory; we can agree to disagree. Both teams made mistakes and gave penalties away under the circumstances. Both teams did enough to miss out on a win and enough to gain a draw. Analyzing it to the nth degree and applying rugby text book theories doesn't add up. Considering all the ''what if's'' doesn't count for much IMHO. It was schoolboy rugby and it was entertaining. The result of the game was determined over the full 70 minutes.
^^^^
Not theory it works and I doubt I've looked at a rugby text book and used it on the paddock...maybe that's where I'm going wrong. Good to debate though and I appreciate you explaining the difficulties from the other side of the fence it certainly helps to understand the various challenges of a school coach that may not seem so obvious to some of us.
Not theory it works and I doubt I've looked at a rugby text book and used it on the paddock...maybe that's where I'm going wrong. Good to debate though and I appreciate you explaining the difficulties from the other side of the fence it certainly helps to understand the various challenges of a school coach that may not seem so obvious to some of us.
SonnyDillWilliams
Nev Cottrell (35)
Scheez ... Waverley being labeled a rich private school having exclusive access to queens park playing fields ....Article on smh .... Don't know how to post link ...
Would hardly call waverley rich !
Meantime I see cranbrook has flood lights on hordern ... Which would be a nice luxury.
Oh well, I guess everyone has a different idea of rich
What I do know is waverley offers little in way of scholarships... Particularly sporting ... There just ain't the money
And they are doing their best to fund , some long overdue building works.
And re waverley having games on when everyone else is rained out ... I beg to differ ... Generally only the 1sts have a reasonable prospect of not getting cancelled
Would hardly call waverley rich !
Meantime I see cranbrook has flood lights on hordern ... Which would be a nice luxury.
Oh well, I guess everyone has a different idea of rich
What I do know is waverley offers little in way of scholarships... Particularly sporting ... There just ain't the money
And they are doing their best to fund , some long overdue building works.
And re waverley having games on when everyone else is rained out ... I beg to differ ... Generally only the 1sts have a reasonable prospect of not getting cancelled
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
My tip is that some do gooder on the board has decided to put some pressure on the school.
The whole park is being commericalised as quickly as possible.
S
sidelineview
Guest
lenny: Not theory it works and I doubt I've looked at a rugby text book and used it on the paddock.maybe that's where I'm going wrong. Good to debate though and I appreciate you explaining the difficulties from the other side of the fence it certainly helps to understand the various challenges of a school coach that may not seem so obvious to some of us.
Peace brother. it was a good game of footy though wasn't it?
Peace brother. it was a good game of footy though wasn't it?
cranbrookrugby
Bob McCowan (2)
Do you think CAS 1st XV rugby could ever get to the stage of having 1 of the 3 fixtures on a friday night kick off at say 6.30pm personally i think it would be a massive success and yes i know that most grounds dont have strong enough lights to flood a whole playing field let alone any lights at all but i think it would draw massive crowds just imagine the knox vs barker game at knox 1 it would be electrifying.
Rebels rising
Stan Wickham (3)
May not be very far away, knox have the appropriate lighting and have played multiple soccer games on Friday night on the rugby field. I've heard it's been a great success with all the boarders and more coming to watch
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
The match report for Cranbrook v Knox is not yet to hand but we have published the reports on the other two games here:
We will add the third report ASAP.
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We will add the third report ASAP.
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footyislife
Frank Row (1)
On the weekend a great game was the 2nds Knox vs Cranbrook both sides had great defence and great set play from both sides. Knox was very lucky to get away with the win, Knox's number 9 played sharp and made an excellent cover tackle. I also thought the number 3 and 4or5 ( red headgear) played spectacular and could have their eyes set on 1st's next year if not in year 12. Cranbrook's 10 had great footwork and connection with other backs. Overall great team play from both sides. Looking forward to the last game of CAS this weekend.
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