rugbyking2
Allen Oxlade (6)
My sources say Smith injured, unsure return date and Micallef has left the school to pursue a trade, big loss there.
CAS Rugby 2015
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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My sources say Smith injured, unsure return date and Micallef has left the school to pursue a trade, big loss there.
rugbyking2
Allen Oxlade (6)
Agreed there, I think having a specialist coach in the set piece coming down during pre-season would be a big help. Provided of course the practices implemented here were adhered to during the season and diligently trained.
One has left school the other is injured. Current props are quite capable but need some technical adjustment as does the binding of the whole forward pack to support them. It's always going to be the case of who is available in these positions however at this level it's more about smarts and a collective approach to gain parity.
For sure..
Agree with those comments Lenny & rugbyking2. Imagine if Waverley .......
could consistently win their own scrum feeds and Lineout throws...wow ..... Imagine if they could attack the blind side via 8,6,9,11 occasionally with 15 chiming in..........imagine if the outside backs could tackle effectively head on ...and then effect a jackle to steal possession ?
Imagine if the backs could confidently re-cycle possession so the team could string together several phases....imagine if the closest back could confidently clean out at the breakdown to ensure Waves held possession for longer periods....... imagine if the backs stopped kicking the ball away and were taught how to counter attack confidently utilizing the natural pace of 15,14,11 and others. Imagine if the Coaches asked the players at Half Time and Full Time "How many turnovers did you attempt and how many did you win " ? A simple but really effective way to highlight the importance of winning breakdown ball and keeping it from your opposition.
I agree the effort is mostly there.......just the execution isn't.
could consistently win their own scrum feeds and Lineout throws...wow ..... Imagine if they could attack the blind side via 8,6,9,11 occasionally with 15 chiming in..........imagine if the outside backs could tackle effectively head on ...and then effect a jackle to steal possession ?
Imagine if the backs could confidently re-cycle possession so the team could string together several phases....imagine if the closest back could confidently clean out at the breakdown to ensure Waves held possession for longer periods....... imagine if the backs stopped kicking the ball away and were taught how to counter attack confidently utilizing the natural pace of 15,14,11 and others. Imagine if the Coaches asked the players at Half Time and Full Time "How many turnovers did you attempt and how many did you win " ? A simple but really effective way to highlight the importance of winning breakdown ball and keeping it from your opposition.
I agree the effort is mostly there.......just the execution isn't.
Imagine if every rugby team in Australia did this. We would be unstoppable. Time to get a little realistic. They are boys. They make mistakes sometimes - as does every other CAS school. This is not isolated to Waverly.
S
sidelineview
Guest
That would be good but to be fair, the only time they kicked too much to comment on was in the game against Cranbrook, but that was a game dominated by Murphy's Law. It was one of those games; they made a lot of different mistakes.
One of the best games they played was against Aloys in the first half. They kicked to gain territorial advantage but their ball control was good to back it up that day. The backs received opportunities from playing to those tactics.
They have also put on some pretty good counter attacking plays during the year but at other times used the kick instead.
There's plenty of room for improvement there but players need to be grounded in the basics from a younger age. Some players have played a lot of Club rugby, some have played a lot of club league.
SonnyDillWilliams
Nev Cottrell (35)
Believe Knox 13as also lost to cranbrook ... Although they may still take title?
In the ones .... The season may be all but over, in terms of the winner, however the last 2 rounds hold some interest.
Since cranbrook moved stenmark from 16as to be 1sts fly half, they have been a different team ... So while they face the 2 strongest teams in Knox and aloys, they could pull an upset
Similarly Waverley should be playing for pride, as in my view they started the season with a real chance , but have let themselves down ... For 1 reason or another
And barker and trinity similarly have shown flashes of class ... Such that the minor placing are (unless I am mistaken) not cast in stone
In the ones .... The season may be all but over, in terms of the winner, however the last 2 rounds hold some interest.
Since cranbrook moved stenmark from 16as to be 1sts fly half, they have been a different team ... So while they face the 2 strongest teams in Knox and aloys, they could pull an upset
Similarly Waverley should be playing for pride, as in my view they started the season with a real chance , but have let themselves down ... For 1 reason or another
And barker and trinity similarly have shown flashes of class ... Such that the minor placing are (unless I am mistaken) not cast in stone
SonnyDillWilliams
Nev Cottrell (35)
There has been a lot of talk about how to improve Waverley rugby, but I'd like to see ideas on how to get CAS rugby good enough to knock off gps
Ruling out cheque book rugby (scholarships etc), and boarding house ( joeys) rugby, I reckon the best bet would be to form closer linkages with junior rugby
Waverley and Randwick, Knox and lindfield, trinity and Wests, etc .... However I appreciate that is a daydream as obviously not everyone wants to spent Saturday and Sunday for half the year, chasing an oval ball
Particularly given all the other pursuits
Still wish all these Waverley kids would chuck in the rugby league .... And bolster Randwick rugby
Ruling out cheque book rugby (scholarships etc), and boarding house ( joeys) rugby, I reckon the best bet would be to form closer linkages with junior rugby
Waverley and Randwick, Knox and lindfield, trinity and Wests, etc .... However I appreciate that is a daydream as obviously not everyone wants to spent Saturday and Sunday for half the year, chasing an oval ball
Particularly given all the other pursuits
Still wish all these Waverley kids would chuck in the rugby league .... And bolster Randwick rugby
Kilgore Trout
Herbert Moran (7)
I wish they would stop playing Australian Rules everywhere - imagine the ruck men in the second row, the centre half forwards and rovers in the backs and as loose forwards. Imagine the interstate rivalry ....
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rugbyking2
Allen Oxlade (6)
I was informed during the pre-season Randwick Rugby did run fitness sessions for Waverley students only. However not to sure what the entire extent of the session were and the amount of boys turning up.
Also I'm inclined to believe it is not beneficial for clubs to assist with schools as they already have to develop their own colts and club programs. Additionally many clubs just reap the rewards of the school system despite no obvious links, for instance Randwick rugby and a certain Australian schoolboy from Ignatius who is now running around in 1st grade - HH.
jeff thomson
Herbert Moran (7)
Some of the Waves boys do play Randwick rugby especially in the 14 and 15's
SonnyDillWilliams
Nev Cottrell (35)
Waverley 16s also has good Randwick contingent ... You only have to look at the Sydney under 17 team.
Don't know why Liam Cornish is playing mungo ... Certainly proved a mistake in 2015
Pappa Cornish hopefully will be getting his team fired up, to play for 2nd ... If they can shut down diamond, and stop kicking away possession, play the running game ... No reason they can't beat aloys ... And finish the season on a high, hopefully by also accounting for trinity in final round ...
rod skellet
Desmond Connor (43)
At the risk of running the ire of others I offer the following for debate.
A lot of things make up the competition that is the wonder of CAS Rugby.
And all of it, is well intentioned and of good heart.
I am sure if we had the ability to discuss with the headmasters of all the CAS schools, their objectives of linking education, spiritual well being and sporting capability, to turn out individuals (students), who make our society a better place would all be remarkably similar.
Rugby/sporting scholarships aside, the CAS Rugby Premiership (Plume Shield) is a numbers game.
The school with the biggest catchment and the most numbers of students per year, should in theory have the best chance of winning the Plume Shield.
So numbers tell you that Trinity and Alloys will struggle, Cranbrook will be middling and Knox and Barker will excel. These later schools are just bigger, not better, and hence have the sheer numbers to put a marginally better quality 1st XV on the field week in week out.
I leave Waverly College out as in their catchment, in my opinion, they compete only with Scots as a destination for a private school education so they have the opportunity of getting a better quality athlete by default and hence play above the ability, their enrollment numbers reflect. (I am happy to be shot down on this statement with some hard facts. I hold the Waverly program in high regard so I am just identifying a fact)
If these above mentioned factors are a given, then we are left with 2 genuine things the school can do to affect the teams they put on the field week in week out.
The first is the quality and availability of facilities to ensure the training and coaching regime, have the facilities to ply their trade to the students. In the case of all CAS schools this is pretty much even and level.
The second is to improve the quality of coaching across all grades (not just the 1sts) and have a sporting program that encourages participation (numbers) and sponsors excellence, ie getting students to aspire to and reach their capability ( 1st XV and A's).
Now this coaching costs money.
The rich schools can afford the likes of a Matt Williams et al to improve their sporting curriculum's which encourage participation and rewards excellence. None of these behavioral patterns should be criticized if it is applied across all years. (year 7 through to year 12)
What is worth criticizing or at the least having a healthy debate, is if kids get parachuted into the 1st XV or the 16A's in the last couple of years of school, (ie scholarships) with the intent of winning trophies or premierships, to make the perception of the entire school more important, than the individuals it is charged with turning out.
Part of the cultural strength of the CAS schools and GPS schools for that matter , is the pride respect and most importantly aspirational goals, the students have ( and all parents hope for) to make the 1st XV, 1st VIII or 1st XI.
The movement of players in a singular year group (age) within a school between the A's or the E's in every sport, provides that competitive spirit and aspiration, along with the dealing with disappointments, that stays with the kids for a lifetime. Its one of the benefits that private school education provides, that puts them in such good stead when they hit the real world and school is no longer provides a environment that protects them.
As parents and the people that influence how our schools educate our children, we need to take care that our aspiration for excellence in our schools and in this case excellence and results in the CAS 1st XV competition, does not get ahead of the real reason the kids are at these 6 CAS schools in the first place.
It will be a very sad day when premierships are bought by parachuting in through scholarships, 2 or 3 quality players in the firsts to get a desired result. The school maybe able to boast results, but what of the 2 or 3 kids who were displaced. How do they deal with this instant disappointment and how do parents who want the best for their children feel when a interloper, free of charge, displaces their son in a team that they have spent 5 years aspiring to play for.
Not only because because the new student may have displaced a kid who has spent 5 years at that school aspiring to wear the Red Jersey (Barker) or the Double Vee (Waverly), when he gets to year 12, but also for the all parents at the school whose excess fees subsidies that particular child's participation in the top team at their school.
Is it desirable to put in doubt the aspirations of year 8 and year 9 students to play in the 1sts??
If this aspiration was not true, then why do all CAS and GPS schools have such a strong Old Boy following. We all do it because playing for the 1st XV is important and we all value our school years irrespective of which school we attended.
I suppose the end point in this blog is for all parents who care for their kids education and their spiritual well being, should consider the long term cultural and individual personality impacts that scholarships have on all kids at the school.
Sponsoring sporting excellence through quality facilities and good coaching is a fabulous and very worthwhile objective that all schools aspire to, for all their students.
I also believe that all private schools should be seen to provide opportunities to financially underprivaledged students to attend and receive the benefits that a CAS school education provides, not only in sport, but in all aspects of education, music, drama etc.
Our role as parents, who ultimately are the custodians of the cash flow that ensure these schools survive and continue their primary role of providing good quality students who become leaders for our society, need to ensure that the balance between sporting success and other equally important endeavors that a CAS school experience provides does not get out of wack.
The ball is in our court.
A lot of things make up the competition that is the wonder of CAS Rugby.
And all of it, is well intentioned and of good heart.
I am sure if we had the ability to discuss with the headmasters of all the CAS schools, their objectives of linking education, spiritual well being and sporting capability, to turn out individuals (students), who make our society a better place would all be remarkably similar.
Rugby/sporting scholarships aside, the CAS Rugby Premiership (Plume Shield) is a numbers game.
The school with the biggest catchment and the most numbers of students per year, should in theory have the best chance of winning the Plume Shield.
So numbers tell you that Trinity and Alloys will struggle, Cranbrook will be middling and Knox and Barker will excel. These later schools are just bigger, not better, and hence have the sheer numbers to put a marginally better quality 1st XV on the field week in week out.
I leave Waverly College out as in their catchment, in my opinion, they compete only with Scots as a destination for a private school education so they have the opportunity of getting a better quality athlete by default and hence play above the ability, their enrollment numbers reflect. (I am happy to be shot down on this statement with some hard facts. I hold the Waverly program in high regard so I am just identifying a fact)
If these above mentioned factors are a given, then we are left with 2 genuine things the school can do to affect the teams they put on the field week in week out.
The first is the quality and availability of facilities to ensure the training and coaching regime, have the facilities to ply their trade to the students. In the case of all CAS schools this is pretty much even and level.
The second is to improve the quality of coaching across all grades (not just the 1sts) and have a sporting program that encourages participation (numbers) and sponsors excellence, ie getting students to aspire to and reach their capability ( 1st XV and A's).
Now this coaching costs money.
The rich schools can afford the likes of a Matt Williams et al to improve their sporting curriculum's which encourage participation and rewards excellence. None of these behavioral patterns should be criticized if it is applied across all years. (year 7 through to year 12)
What is worth criticizing or at the least having a healthy debate, is if kids get parachuted into the 1st XV or the 16A's in the last couple of years of school, (ie scholarships) with the intent of winning trophies or premierships, to make the perception of the entire school more important, than the individuals it is charged with turning out.
Part of the cultural strength of the CAS schools and GPS schools for that matter , is the pride respect and most importantly aspirational goals, the students have ( and all parents hope for) to make the 1st XV, 1st VIII or 1st XI.
The movement of players in a singular year group (age) within a school between the A's or the E's in every sport, provides that competitive spirit and aspiration, along with the dealing with disappointments, that stays with the kids for a lifetime. Its one of the benefits that private school education provides, that puts them in such good stead when they hit the real world and school is no longer provides a environment that protects them.
As parents and the people that influence how our schools educate our children, we need to take care that our aspiration for excellence in our schools and in this case excellence and results in the CAS 1st XV competition, does not get ahead of the real reason the kids are at these 6 CAS schools in the first place.
It will be a very sad day when premierships are bought by parachuting in through scholarships, 2 or 3 quality players in the firsts to get a desired result. The school maybe able to boast results, but what of the 2 or 3 kids who were displaced. How do they deal with this instant disappointment and how do parents who want the best for their children feel when a interloper, free of charge, displaces their son in a team that they have spent 5 years aspiring to play for.
Not only because because the new student may have displaced a kid who has spent 5 years at that school aspiring to wear the Red Jersey (Barker) or the Double Vee (Waverly), when he gets to year 12, but also for the all parents at the school whose excess fees subsidies that particular child's participation in the top team at their school.
Is it desirable to put in doubt the aspirations of year 8 and year 9 students to play in the 1sts??
If this aspiration was not true, then why do all CAS and GPS schools have such a strong Old Boy following. We all do it because playing for the 1st XV is important and we all value our school years irrespective of which school we attended.
I suppose the end point in this blog is for all parents who care for their kids education and their spiritual well being, should consider the long term cultural and individual personality impacts that scholarships have on all kids at the school.
Sponsoring sporting excellence through quality facilities and good coaching is a fabulous and very worthwhile objective that all schools aspire to, for all their students.
I also believe that all private schools should be seen to provide opportunities to financially underprivaledged students to attend and receive the benefits that a CAS school education provides, not only in sport, but in all aspects of education, music, drama etc.
Our role as parents, who ultimately are the custodians of the cash flow that ensure these schools survive and continue their primary role of providing good quality students who become leaders for our society, need to ensure that the balance between sporting success and other equally important endeavors that a CAS school experience provides does not get out of wack.
The ball is in our court.
jeff thomson
Herbert Moran (7)
How do the 15's Randwick go?
rugbyking2
Allen Oxlade (6)
They are currently playing in the A division however are currently struggling with just the 1 win since the adjusted competition. Similarly they fought hard at state champs but were decimated by injuries. Some good talent just not very good depth.
Done that
Ron Walden (29)
re #1295
Rod Skellet ,re your comments above,in particular the numbers of students at each school, my information suggests that Knox has the largest student population,closely followed by Barker & Trinity,which have similar numbers ,Waverly,Cranbrook & St Aloysius follow.
What is perhaps more relevant in regard to Rugby strength in each school is the number of boys who are playing that sport, & the importance attached to Rugby within the school population.e.g. I attended a CAS game recently ,& when I attempted to identify one of the players after the game, I had to ask quite a large number of the students who were watching, before I found a boy who could tell me the players name.My impression was that a large number of the attending students were there because they were made to attend.
Similarly a number of parents from that school who I am familiar with,but whose sons have little or no involvement with Rugby,know little about the status of the Schools' first fifteen.
This is a website devoted to Rugby,& followed by those who love this sport,but it is a mistake to believe that all the large private schools & their various members attach as much importance to Rugby as some here might think.
Knox & Barker are usually near the top of their respective competitions & coincidentally have the largest numbers in their school populations.Trinity with similar numbers is less successful on a year by year basis.However a recent visit to Trinity's web page revealed that they have been champion school in Swimming & Athletics for a number of years,& more recently champion school at Soccer,Tennis & Basketball .They also claim to be champions at Chess & Australia's leading school in results attained in the International Baccalaureate exams.
My point being that whilst you & I might like to see our son's run on in the school 1 XV ,the majority of parents don't attach such importance to Rugby in their sons' development, some in fact have no interest in Rugby at all,& see the other pursuits such as those I mentioned above as much more desirable & important when choosing a school for their son.
The importance of Rugby definitely varies from school to school these days, & from my observation is greater in the GPS schools than it is in the CAS group,but even in the former ,with the advent of so many other options for a boy to engage in these days & with the changing ethnic backgrounds of each schools population,is less than it used to be even in the GPS association.
Rod Skellet ,re your comments above,in particular the numbers of students at each school, my information suggests that Knox has the largest student population,closely followed by Barker & Trinity,which have similar numbers ,Waverly,Cranbrook & St Aloysius follow.
What is perhaps more relevant in regard to Rugby strength in each school is the number of boys who are playing that sport, & the importance attached to Rugby within the school population.e.g. I attended a CAS game recently ,& when I attempted to identify one of the players after the game, I had to ask quite a large number of the students who were watching, before I found a boy who could tell me the players name.My impression was that a large number of the attending students were there because they were made to attend.
Similarly a number of parents from that school who I am familiar with,but whose sons have little or no involvement with Rugby,know little about the status of the Schools' first fifteen.
This is a website devoted to Rugby,& followed by those who love this sport,but it is a mistake to believe that all the large private schools & their various members attach as much importance to Rugby as some here might think.
Knox & Barker are usually near the top of their respective competitions & coincidentally have the largest numbers in their school populations.Trinity with similar numbers is less successful on a year by year basis.However a recent visit to Trinity's web page revealed that they have been champion school in Swimming & Athletics for a number of years,& more recently champion school at Soccer,Tennis & Basketball .They also claim to be champions at Chess & Australia's leading school in results attained in the International Baccalaureate exams.
My point being that whilst you & I might like to see our son's run on in the school 1 XV ,the majority of parents don't attach such importance to Rugby in their sons' development, some in fact have no interest in Rugby at all,& see the other pursuits such as those I mentioned above as much more desirable & important when choosing a school for their son.
The importance of Rugby definitely varies from school to school these days, & from my observation is greater in the GPS schools than it is in the CAS group,but even in the former ,with the advent of so many other options for a boy to engage in these days & with the changing ethnic backgrounds of each schools population,is less than it used to be even in the GPS association.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Bloody good post
SonnyDillWilliams
Nev Cottrell (35)
Waverley's front row I gather will be back to strong .... bolstered by return of Smith
however Cooper out in forwards and Mohi in backs ... so maybe a bit injury depleted
however Aloys will be coming off a tough Knox game ... so tipping Waverley in a tight one ... this all assumes that Waverley doesn't kick away possession, and contains Diamond
the other match of interest is the 15As where will Waves missing some of their big guns, but they will be eager to revenge their first round loss, which was apparently on the back of some tough referee calls
also tipping Waverley ... this one will be a cricket score
however Cooper out in forwards and Mohi in backs ... so maybe a bit injury depleted
however Aloys will be coming off a tough Knox game ... so tipping Waverley in a tight one ... this all assumes that Waverley doesn't kick away possession, and contains Diamond
the other match of interest is the 15As where will Waves missing some of their big guns, but they will be eager to revenge their first round loss, which was apparently on the back of some tough referee calls
also tipping Waverley ... this one will be a cricket score
CatchnPass
Vay Wilson (31)
@Done That, completely agree with your observations. I would add that at some of the GPS schools that appear most interested in rugby, student attendance at 1st XV matches is also compulsory. But the school may have more of a rugby ethos and hence the boys more engaged/aware of player names etc. That said, as a rugby tragic, I'm often astounded when talking to certain friends who have sons at various GPS schools and both they and sons are completely oblivious to what is happening in the school's rugby program. The insidious spread of the "safer" round ball game, and aerial ping pong, appears unstoppable.
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