CAS Rugby 2014

[Inside Shoulder]

CAS teams that beat GPS in '78 - a handful of Aloys boys there.

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Have you got a better scan of that one - I assume you're in it

 

[Spieber]

Yes, they ran all over GPS at Chatswood - Rick Goehner played out of his skin.

Strangely, though, that year the Associated Schools had a future Wallaby second-row (Peter Fitzsimons) and a future NSW prop (Dene Glasson) - yet neither of them made even the reserves' bench!

Peter Fitzsimons departed for a US Rotary exchange (I think) not long after he gave us a pounding at Warrawee. The Whale may have been injured.

 

[Antony]

Cranbrook 1st XV to have training run against Easts 1st colts tonight supposedly

Easts streamlining the recruitment process.

 

[Brian Jones]

To the point of Knox Grammar wanting to spend 100,000 on a professional coach. Every school in the competition is able to do so. Each school is a business and have the funds to pay this sum of money. Its 10 boys from Waverly and Aloyisous school fees. It main seem a lot in retrospect but within the actual structures of the school and behind closed doors for each school it isn't. Furthermore to end these constant cries of intakes per year group. Each school has the choice to uptake each year group. Knox is the first to do so but in the near future others like Waverly will be as well. Also other schools have less numbers because they have other competing sports e.g Waverly and AFL. Every school has competing sports.

 

[cyclopath]

OK, if any peanuts haven't worked it out, slagging off schoolboy players, either by saying "Player X is shit / feeble / blah blah blah" or just with innuendo about what they've done, or not done, is not tolerated.
These are schoolboys - speak carefully and respectfully, or just shut up.
There is no tolerance, or 1st warning. Just don't do it.

 

[BRUMBIEJACK]

To the point of Knox Grammar wanting to spend 100,000 on a professional coach. Every school in the competition is able to do so. Each school is a business and have the funds to pay this sum of money. Its 10 boys from Waverly and Aloyisous school fees. It main seem a lot in retrospect but within the actual structures of the school and behind closed doors for each school it isn't. Furthermore to end these constant cries of intakes per year group. Each school has the choice to uptake each year group. Knox is the first to do so but in the near future others like Waverly will be as well. Also other schools have less numbers because they have other competing sports e.g Waverly and AFL. Every school has competing sports.

Sorry but that's not actually correct regarding school's a choice to increase student numbers, or that Waverley will be doing so in the near future. There is a natural limit that local councils set that goes to issues of parking etc. For schools that are built out with no room for expansion such as Aloysius and Waverley the numbers are pretty well fixed until and unless they come up with some pretty innovative (read expensive) building solutions.

 

[AllYouHux]

Round 5, always promising when each game is a playoff for 1st, 3rd and 5th respectively. All these games are tough to call.
Cranbrook vs Knox, with both teams coming off comfortable wins this game should be fast. I believe Knox has enough strength across the park to muscle a victory, unless Cranbrook plays a good, smart territory game (of which they've recently been criticised of not doing). Amidst the professional coaching staff debate, Knox by 8.
Trinity vs Barker, I think this one will come down to who is returning for Trinity. Barker haven't conceded a point in two rounds but it's almost certain that record will break if Trinity fields a full strength side, Trinity by 10.
Aloysius vs Waverley, Aloys seems to be the more resilient of the two sides, the past two match reports of theirs characterising them with heart and courage as a losing side. Playing in Willoughby is much more favourable than Queens Park and the loss of Vevers might actually inspire a wholesome team effort. Waverley controversially won the corresponding match last year after the bell, Aloys boys will be looking for revenge. Aloys by 12

Great summary,

The cranbrook vs Knox clash is shaping up to be the game of the year. Whilst it is arguable that Knox have stronger personnel across the park, the key match up in this game will be in the halves. Both teams thrive on structured football, so the territory game will be huge. In this area the boot of Renton will give cranbrook the crucial advantage. Also, the discipline of cranbrook could be a crucial factor - Renton's boot will punish the ill-discipline that have characterized some of knox's footy this season. In a tight encounter, Cranbrook by 6.

Aloys vs Waverley; should be a cracker. Both sides with a point to prove but no points on the board. So far this season Aloys has shown promise but failed to put together a full 70 minutes. Coming up against a battered Waverley side I think aloys should come away with there first win of the season. Waverley's backline defence has been suspect, and the aloys inside backs (dainton and Lawson) have been the shining light for Aloysius alongside Vevers.
I agree with Big Kev, Aloys by 15

Barker vs Trinity
A very hard game to pick. Trinitys hammering at the hands of cranbrook will do nothing for their confidence - and the loss of key players in Barkley brown and corias will leave morale low for the green machine. Barker have had a less traumatic run with injury, and have their tails up after cleaning up Waverley. Barker by 10

 

[Scythe]

I think the amateur era in rugby is long gone. These are elite schools offering huge professionally run co-curricular programs. If Knox choose to spend some of their sports budget on a professional rugby coach then good luck to them. I think they also have a high level soccer coach. They advertise the Knox Sports Academy as part of their value proposition to parents so some professional coaching is to be expected. Look at the swimming and diving program at Trinity, they choose to spend a lot of money there. Others might spend more resources on professional music instructors or drama instructors. I don't see why rugby should be exempt from specialist coaching input.

On a slightly different tack all the talk of schools developing players through their rugby programs is a bit over blown. Most of the top players are playing club and rep. This is where most of the elite player development takes place. Where you do see school programs come into their own is in the lower grades where most boys do not play club. I know at Barker for many of the boys their only rugby experience is at school. The teachers do some rugby coaching clinics to learn to coach and then hopefully develop these other boys to have a good time playing rugby with no expectation of making the 1st XV. This is where you see "traditional schoolboy rugby". The elite level is just that, elite.

I disagree with the comments about rep and club players - this accounts for junior development but for senior development any boy going to a high tier private school relies on school based coaching to fill the gap when they stop playing rep or club.

Some players play both but that's a minority due to risk of injury - so most rep or club players over 16 go to public schools


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[RugbyFan14]

On the question of school numbers, here is some actual data on total 2013 enrolments from the MySchools web site:

Knox 2304 (K-12)
Trinity 1988 (K-12)
Barker 1599 boys (K-12)
Cranbrook 1411 (K-12)
Waverley 1304 (yrs 5-12)
St Aloysius 1245 (yrs 3-12)

Some surprises perhaps? - Knox the biggest by a very wide margin. Trinity second biggest - 389 bigger than Barker. Cranbrook only 188 boys smaller than Barker - spread out over K-12 is about 14.5 boys per year group. Given Cranbrook and Barker start at K and Waverley start in Yr5 it may be that Waverley have more boys in high school than Cranbrook (certainly) and Barker (possibly)?

 

[RugbyFan14]

I also think some of the comments about Waverley are incorrect. Firstly they have the most CAS premierships of any school. Its not all in the early years - they were premiers in 2000, 2002, 2004, 2007, 2009. They were highly placed in recent years and only a bit of luck away from beating Barker last year.

In terms of the size of rugby programs: in high school Barker are fielding 24 teams and Waverley 25.

 

[Snort]

Great summary,

Barker vs Trinity
A very hard game to pick. Trinitys hammering at the hands of cranbrook will do nothing for their confidence - and the loss of key players in Barkley brown and corias will leave morale low for the green machine. Barker have had a less traumatic run with injury, and have their tails up after cleaning up Waverley. Barker by 10

This isn't unreasonable. But it's impossible to say much without knowing who will be in the line-up for Trinity - the difference between its top side and the next best is very significant. My guess is that McLennan is back (because I assume his suspension was one week only) and that Corias had a one-week concussion break. If Barkley-Brown is over his illness, that would help too. That would still leave two of Trinity's better players (Fish and Siteine) on the sidelines, but it will make the contest fairly even, with Barker narrow favourites.

 

[Brian Williams]

to be honest, Cranbrook vs Knox this weekend seems over-rated. Knox is the better side. Although the points say different, Cranbrook have excelled against sides now under powered due to injuries post knox games. For example trinity, Cranbrook although scoring a larger amount of points- Trinity was missing three of their 'stand out' players Barkley-Brown, McClellan and Corias which they played from recollection all against Knox. Adding to this it was a home game meaning the factors were with them.
Now the only thing to be holding knox back is their discipline...
Knox by 20+ this weekend.

 

[rtd32]

to be honest, Cranbrook vs Knox this weekend seems over-rated. Knox is the better side. Although the points say different, Cranbrook have excelled against sides now under powered due to injuries post knox games. For example trinity, Cranbrook although scoring a larger amount of points- Trinity was missing three of their 'stand out' players Barkley-Brown, McClellan and Corias which they played from recollection all against Knox. Adding to this it was a home game meaning the factors were with them.
Now the only thing to be holding knox back is their discipline.
Knox by 20+ this weekend.

I agree to an extent here. They were also playing against a fairly weak Barker side - Smerdon was injured and I'm not certain (I wasn't at the game) but I think a few of their forwards were out for disciplinary reasons. Also, Trinity were missing fish and siteine on top of the other 3 you mentioned. I think that the next Trinity vs Cranbrook clash will be a lot closer than people are expecting.

I think we also have a lot of Cranbrook optimists here. I have no doubt that it will be a close game but I can only see Knox being hot favourites here given their absolute dominance in the forwards. I have not seen such a powerhouse up front in the CAS competition for a very long time. These boys have as much scoring ability as the Barker back line last year. Good luck to both sides but I'm expecting a Knox win

 

[Shola Ameobi]

For Knox vs Cranbrook this week, the Knox boys will need to start more aggressively as Cranbrook will go hard from the kick-off


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[smokinjoe]

i will cut off my left testical if waverley end up in the bottom half of table!
you retards obviously dont know anything.. every year you say waverley dont have 'star' players and yet the waverley lads suprise everyone. this year will be NO DIFFERENT!
cranbrook have nothin to offer and neither do aloys!
come to your sences, history shows waverley have not been in bottom half in decades.
your all fruitloops if you think otherwise and must be watchin a different CAS comp..
please tell me if i am wrong?

Can you please post a video of the event

 

[CASoldboy]

Great summary,

The cranbrook vs Knox clash is shaping up to be the game of the year. Whilst it is arguable that Knox have stronger personnel across the park, the key match up in this game will be in the halves. Both teams thrive on structured football, so the territory game will be huge. In this area the boot of Renton will give cranbrook the crucial advantage. Also, the discipline of cranbrook could be a crucial factor - Renton's boot will punish the ill-discipline that have characterized some of knox's footy this season. In a tight encounter, Cranbrook by 6.

A sound analysis but I think you have underplayed the dominance of Knox forwards and oversold the importance of rentons boot. Knox by 10 (would love to be wrong)

Aloys vs Waverley should see aloys get up and I agree it will be through exposing waverleys back line defence. the aloysius centres and fly half have been penetrative all season and should punch holes in the waverley back line as they did last year when they were pipped on the bell at college oval. Aloys by 15

With uncertainty over the return of Barkley brown and corias, the barker trinity clash is hard to call. If they play, trinity by 7.


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[RugbyFan14]

Knox have scored 33 tries in 4 games this year with the forwards leading the way with Widders-Leece 9 tries and Van Zyl 5 tries. Hard to see Cranbrook stopping them, but anything can happen in schoolboy rugby. Knox deserve to be warm favourites. (Unrelated point - last year with a dominant backline Barker scored 382 points, in 4 games this year Knox already have 207 points)

Trinity don't normally do well making the journey to Hornsby. They've played the same 4 teams this year and Trinity have conceded 96 more points than Barker. Even allowing for last week's debacle have to favour a full strength Barker side to beat Trinity with room to spare.

Last week Waverley (at home) lost to Barker 46-0. The week before Aloys lost at Barker 21-0, a scoreline that flattered Barker. Favour Aloys at home to record their first win.

 

[RugbyFan14]

The most dominant CAS team in recent years i can remember was Trinity in 2011. They scored 447 points to 126.

After 4 games Knox are 207 to 58 and Cranbrook are 190 to 35. I think it is fair to say the Cranbrook numbers are padded by a massively under strength Trinity team last week. I wonder can Knox give that Trinity record a scare?

 

[rtd32]

The week before Aloys lost at Barker 21-0, a scoreline that flattered Barker. Favour Aloys at home to record their first win.

I think not sir. Aloys were pretty flat in attack that game - the best part of their game was their goal line defence and their ability to be a nuisance at the Barker ruck. They didn't look like scoring much throughout the game. I'd say that the scoreline was fair

 

[rtd32]

Another key point that Cranbrook should take into their game for this weekend is that (from what I've seen of them) Knox always seem to put on a much bigger 2nd half. Not hugely important but something they need to be weary of