CAS Rugby 2014

[Peabody]

Sonny Dill.

Yes, a certain amount of unpleasant handbagging used to go on at Waverley - Knox matches.

But Waverley invariably had the last laugh with their "Custard Pie" victory war cry. Our First XV coach, Bill Lawson, would just about break out in hives upon its rendition.

 

[TahTah]

understandable, why particulary on Waverley?

Rugby has been, still is and will continue to be something Waverley takes very seriously. The school has tried something different this year and made some changes which don't appear to have been overly successful. Whatever that change was and what the school do to fix things, the lesson from the Waverley experience will be a great one for all to undertand.

 

[TahTah]

Can I make a modest proposal which might bring some sense to some of the discussion here? If you want to argue that Rugby is booming at a particular school (say, Cranbrook) or in horrible decline at another (say, Waverley), please do so by reference to at least a three-year time span and with an eye on the results at junior level as well as the 1st XV. It happens that this year, Cranbrook has an excellent group of players, and Waverley a relatively weak one. That just happens sometimes. Neither fact, in itself, is evidence of anything much.

Take Barker. I doubt that they are doing much this year that's all that different from the last two years (two premierships, 19 wins from 20 matches). This year's crop just isn't quite up to the standard of last year's. Now, if Barker don't win for another five years, then, sure, ask what went wrong. But one season is too small a sample size to mean anything at all about the general health of any school's Rugby programme.

A point very well made...
And we've still more than half this season to run and a lot can happen between now and the 9th Ausgust.

 

[TahTah]

I would welcome any suggestions as to why numbers in the other schools with similar student intakes to Waverley's (or larger in the case of Barker) seem to be struggling for numbers - or has it ever been thus since the introduction of soccer ?

Could AFL be thinning the rugby ranks? The governing body appear to be quite successful in getting programs into schools.

 

[Scythe]

suspended or disciplined ? getting a bit carried away ?
we've already been through this debate (you must have missed it) . schoolboy behaviour under the excitable circumstances .. not condoned but it happened. No doubt the teachers wouldn't have left it unattended.

Definitely suspended. This kind of behaviour was dealt with at CAS athletics with about forty supporters suspended for booing a schools athlete


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[sidelineview]

Definitely suspended. This kind of behaviour was dealt with at CAS athletics with about forty supporters suspended for booing a schools athlete


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I doubt if the boys were applauding the fact that a player was sent off for punching. More that they were showing support for one of their players as they normally cheer every player who leaves the field for any reason. Misguided? Yes; a hanging offence? No.
'In my day' we would have been lined up and given the strap .... on a cold winter's morning, and that would have been an end to it. And that would have satisfied all the outraged and 'disgusted' advocates for harsh punishment for such an 'atrocious' act from a bunch of excited schoolboys.

 

[BRUMBIEJACK]

Could AFL be thinning the rugby ranks? The governing body appear to be quite successful in getting programs into schools.

As I've said before, in my experience AFL are the most predatory, cashed-up and best organised of the winter sports. But the experience at Waverley (and happy for other schools to comment) is that the hit has been taken by soccer. The number of rugby teams at Waverley has actually increased since the tight-shorted aerial ping-pongers got a foothold. The rather unscientific conclusion is that the atmosphere that the massed rugby teams offers is lacking in AFL, the rugby boys don't want to give up the physical contact aspect while the soccer players are looking for something more physical than the roundball game offers, but something not so physical that mum would baulk at. Some of the AFL kids were playing on Sundays anyway or their dads were southern staters who are happy to let their kids be given one point for missing the goal. I think that AFL in Sydney schools will become like rugby in Melbourne schools - a niche sport.

 

[Pete King]

Rugby has been, still is and will continue to be something Waverley takes very seriously. The school has tried something different this year and made some changes which don't appear to have been overly successful. Whatever that change was and what the school do to fix things, the lesson from the Waverley experience will be a great one for all to undertand.

The school lost there first grade coaches who had been very successful at the completition of the previous season, then knocked back applications from old boys and outsiders to help in favour of the sports master (underqualified) to coach the team himself.

 

[jbarnes43]

AFL thinning the numbers? i think that you must all be oblivious to the fact that the 2014 world cup is just around the corner and the numbers and interest in soccer increasing, that soccer will infact be the sport skinning rugbys numbers and overtaking the tradition that the 1st XV holds today. not AFL

 

[Snort]

The school lost there first grade coaches who had been very successful at the completition of the previous season, then knocked back applications from old boys and outsiders to help in favour of the sports master (underqualified) to coach the team himself.

Look, if you say so. But I've seen Waverley play this year. If Waverley old boys had donated squillions of dollars to the school to recruit Clive Woodward, Graham Henry and Bob Dwyer to coach the 1st XV, it wouldn't make any difference. As Warren Ryan loves to say (about league, but it holds true for anything), "a coach is only as good as his cattle". This year's cattle aren't that strong. Why people need to act as though this is an unprecedented catastrophe, I don't know.

A bit of perspective - last time Cranbrook won its first four Associated Schools games was 1994. That year, Waverley's record was played five, lost five. But within a couple of years Ryan Cross was in the 1sts and they were smashing everyone out of sight. That wasn't due to any radical change in coach or philosophy, just the fact that some years the batch of players available to the Firsts is strong, and other years less so.

That's not to say that coaching makes no difference - of course it does. But it's not the sole, or even (in most cases) the dominant factor.

 

[sidelineview]

The school lost there first grade coaches who had been very successful at the completition of the previous season, then knocked back applications from old boys and outsiders to help in favour of the sports master (underqualified) to coach the team himself.

What's done is done Pete. Waverley teams don't surrender by tradition and the 1sts have a lot of improvement in them and the remainder of the season to find that improvement (an obvious statement). They also have some promising up-and-comers playing 1sts and 16As.
What's more important to note for me anyway is the impressive results of the younger teams and the fact that some very good coaches are in charge of them.

 

[sidelineview]

Right on the money again Snort. I have no criticism of the current coaching; it is what it is. What happens and can happen in the next few years interests me.

 

[Pete King]

Look, if you say so. But I've seen Waverley play this year. If Waverley old boys had donated squillions of dollars to the school to recruit Clive Woodward, Graham Henry and Bob Dwyer to coach the 1st XV, it wouldn't make any difference. As Warren Ryan loves to say (about league, but it holds true for anything), "a coach is only as good as his cattle". This year's cattle aren't that strong. Why people need to act as though this is an unprecedented catastrophe, I don't know.

A bit of perspective - last time Cranbrook won its first four Associated Schools games was 1994. That year, Waverley's record was played five, lost five. But within a couple of years Ryan Cross was in the 1sts and they were smashing everyone out of sight. That wasn't due to any radical change in coach or philosophy, just the fact that some years the batch of players available to the Firsts is strong, and other years less so.

That's not to say that coaching makes no difference - of course it does. But it's not the sole, or even (in most cases) the dominant factor.

Mine was just a statement of what had occurred from one year to the next at Waverley. By no means is it the end of the world or a massive disaster but to not be looking to improve and compete better in the future would be unfair to the kids in the future. Playing First XV at school means alot to you at that age in the grand scheme of life its not so important but it is a nice memory to cherish with your mates, alot of whom you carry through life.

I'll preface my statement by stating i only have been to one waverley fixture against the very strong cranbrook side. The Waverley side competed well in the first half with limited options in attack often resorting to pick and drives.

I couldnt help but feel sorry for the lads standing behind the goal post in the 2nd half after being comprehensively over run. Regardless of you underplaying the role of a coach/program I thought and belief with some better coaching and physical development the waverley boys would have competed better and not been flogged.

just as a side note snort I was at Horden the day in 97 when Cranbrook beat Ryan Cross and Adam Friers Waverley First XV team. Its not always about the cattle.

 

[BRUMBIEJACK]

AFL thinning the numbers? i think that you must all be oblivious to the fact that the 2014 world cup is just around the corner and the numbers and interest in soccer increasing, that soccer will infact be the sport skinning rugbys numbers and overtaking the tradition that the 1st XV holds today. not AFL

Again at Waverley, it's worth noting that there are approx 50% more boys playing rugby from the 13s to the 16s, but there are more soccer than rugby players in the opens. The Waverley junior teams are going well in rugby, the opens not well. Sometimes mass has its own attraction, and at Queen's Park it appears that the soccer 'genie' is well and truly in its bottle.

 

[Braveheart81]

just as a side note snort I was at Horden the day in 97 when Cranbrook beat Ryan Cross and Adam Friers Waverley First XV team. Its not always about the cattle.

What an amazing day that was!

 

[Antony]

What an amazing day that was!

Was that when Batman was at 15?

 

[Pete King]

Right on the money again Snort..

Getting mighty Cozzie in here, might just leave u two to it.

 

[Braveheart81]

Was that when Batman was at 15?

Yes. He was an amazing schoolboy sportsman and athlete.

 

[sidelineview]

The debate about Waverley rugby might be getting a bit boring, but here's some more info .... make of it what you will

Wav vs Trinity
1sts 22-40
2nds 26-0
16A 26-0
16B 55-7
15A 17-10
15B 38-7
14A 26-29
14B 52-0
13A 36-12
13B 26-12
13C 32-10

Wav vs Knox
1sts 31-58
2nds 7-67
16A 7-40
16B 7-17
15A 12-5
15B 40-5
14A 31-27
14B 19-10
13A 0-8
13B 22-14
13C 54-7

 

[sidelineview]

Getting mighty Cozzie in here, might just leave u two to it.

You won't though will you?