CAS Rugby 2013

[Old schooled]

Here are the independent referees for the weekend. Maybe someone at Barker can check to make sure they get the best possible ref at home! Wouldn't want a repeat loss at home.
http://www.rugby.net.au/_uploads/res/7_7342.html

 

[Hugh Jarse]

There are not enough quality referees in Rugbydom.

Those whinging about useless or biased Referees should report for duty at the nearest Referees Association to demonstrate how awesome they are and to address the shortage of quality refs.

Either that, or stop whinging about them. They try their best, are often unpaid, and without them there is no game.

 

[Old schooled]

There are not enough quality referees in Rugbydom.

Those whinging about useless or biased Referees should report for duty at the nearest Referees Association to demonstrate how awesome they are and to address the shortage of quality refs.

Either that, or stop whinging about them. They try their best, are often unpaid, and without them there is no game.

Absolutely agree. Play your best,respect decisions and man up and understand refs do their best. We have some sideline experts that forget the boys aren't playing for sheep stations, but getting an education in more ways than one.

 

[rtd32]

Agreed, barker can't blame a loss to poor refereeing, given the Waverley side was injury depleted and that the decision, whilst not fully reported was legitimate. The one thing I must say is that it is obvious that this touchie did not report the full incident given that the ref undoubtedly would have at least booked the Waverley player that threw a retaliation punch, especially since it was obviously pre meditated as the play had long since continued before it was thrown. If I were a ref, both players would be off given punches were thrown and I'd be recommending a longer suspension for the Waverley player for delivering a callous blow to the head. However, I wasn't on the field and I don't know what the touchie did and didn't see or even what he said to the ref, but I can say what's done is done and barker should keep their heads up knowing that they can still bring back the henry plume shield

 

[Elfster]

yikes . that is a lot of injuries to Waves . and feel sorry for O'donnell, definitely one of the best in CAS

I notice that Knox has an injury rate of over 20% in their opens. So the plague of injuries is with other schools as well. It must be a new thing, back in my days the injury rate was no where near that level. Just curious whether the injury thing is something new to this level of competition.

 

[Lee Grant]

I have taken some extracts from this thread and compiled them to have a "compilation report" on the Waverley v Barker game last Saturday.

The page on the blog is here:

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/cas-round-8-match-reports/3/

It was the only way I could get some kind of report for this important game in the blog.

What do folks think? The usernames of folks are anonymous but should I ask everybody to use a sentence here and a sentence there from their post first, when a lot of people won't be around in the thread for long enough to ask the question to - or more to the point: to answer it?

Have a look at the blog and let me know what you think, because it will probably happen again.

Thanks

LG
.

 

[Barker]

Agreed, barker can't blame a loss to poor refereeing,

I'd just like to make a note, that it isn't Barker complaining. Good on Waverly, they played well, but please don't portray Barker as sore losers that blame the referee. You must remember that (most likely) none of the posters on this thread are members of the Barker firsts team (the coaches don't like players getting involved on here) and as far as I'm aware, none of the boys from the team have openly complained or moaned and groaned about it.

On another note, Knox look set to put to use $30,000 GPS tracking technology in their 1ST XV and XI games to track individual players performance live, throughout the game. Any opinions on this, considering schools like Knox are pumping money into sports technology and programs, and then schools like Waverly and Barker are on little to no budget at all? Interesting how its the schools on an almost non-existent budget are at the top of the table, while schools with money to throw around (Knox has spent several million in the past few years on their rugby programs) appear not to be improving... Thoughts?

 

[Fred87]

Those whinging about useless or biased Referees should report for duty at the nearest Referees Association to demonstrate how awesome they are and to address the shortage of quality refs.

Either that, or stop whinging about them. They try their best, are often unpaid, and without them there is no game.

I am always perplexed by the logical error in this traditional rugby thinking. I shouldn't criticise unless i can do better?? Well my ankles are so banged up i cannot run so clearly i can't referee. But i can observe and i can comment, and it is legitimate to appraise the performance of players and officials. Remember there were many bitter complaints after the Waverley loss to Knox.

For the record, i thought the ref in the 1st XV did a pretty good job with 2 very aggressive and evenly matched sides and Waverley earned the win with a committed and well organised defence. And of course in close games luck can play a part. Earlier this year Barker were lucky when the Waverley half threw the ball out. This time Waverley had some luck with the intercepts and red card.

But to the general point of criticizing officials - over the years i have seen old boys and parents of players (all properly accredited) put in some shockingly biased performances as referees. When i see that happen it is legitimate to comment on it. My inability to referee myself does not magically negate my right to comment on the perfromance of a referee just like my physical inability to play anymore does not negate my right to comment on the game and performance of the players.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

In the forum rules post Scarfman said:
2. Speak respectfully about the players

Change: "Lazy fat bugger with no rugby brains"
To: "Needs to come off his wing and get more involved"

Not only are these statement more respectful, they are more accurate. "Lazy bugger" doesn't mean anything specific.

perhaps we should apply this philosophy to match officials.

If you are physically unable to run around the oval as a referee, then there is still a role you can play in the improvement of the Referee gene pool as a Referee Coach.

Perhaps you could provide objective feedback to the Head of School or Head of Sport at the school for them to pass on to the Referees Association, if you feel that there are areas of their game management or rules knowledge that a specific referee could improve on. Remember the poor Head of Sport often has to compete with other School Associations, Subbies, Grade, Juniors and Women's Rugby for quality Referees, and Assistant Referees. There is only a limited number of these floating around.

Wanging on about referee bias or outright incompetance on an internet rugby forum is not going to make a knob of goats droppings difference to overall referee performances. By becoming one yourself, or a referee coach, or providing specific objective feedback to the Match Organisers you can make a difference.

The point remains that there is not enough good referees around, and we need more of them. The game can not survive without them.

 

[Brainstrust]

I'd just like to make a note, that it isn't Barker complaining. Good on Waverly, they played well, but please don't portray Barker as sore losers that blame the referee. You must remember that (most likely) none of the posters on this thread are members of the Barker firsts team (the coaches don't like players getting involved on here) and as far as I'm aware, none of the boys from the team have openly complained or moaned and groaned about it.

On another note, Knox look set to put to use $30,000 GPS tracking technology in their 1ST XV and XI games to track individual players performance live, throughout the game. Any opinions on this, considering schools like Knox are pumping money into sports technology and programs, and then schools like Waverly and Barker are on little to no budget at all? Interesting how its the schools on an almost non-existent budget are at the top of the table, while schools with money to throw around (Knox has spent several million in the past few years on their rugby programs) appear not to be improving. Thoughts?

Didnt see the first round match, but apparently Waverly had the game won and the 9? Illegally threw the ball into touch on full time and was penalised. Barker then took a tap and went the full length of the field to score and win. If that's right then the round 2 result was probably the right one if both teams are so close.
On the point about Knox etc and their "investment" in program's. there should never be a sense of holding back progress. True enough it seems unfair, but all schools reserve the right to spend funds where they see value. Barker may not do so, but it doesn't mean they are unable to. The option to spend money on development program's to improve the overall performance in a school rugby environment is considerably better than schools who choose to spend their money on bringing in boys in years 10-12, to try and secure a premiership. While $30k on GPS technology seems a lot, it is only marginally higher than one scholarship position. And if i was a parent at any one of these schools mentioned, I would much prefer the development pathway, than seeing boys brought in late. One builds a culture of performance, the other disillusion.

 

[Elfster]

On the point about Knox etc and their "investment" in program's. there should never be a sense of holding back progress. True enough it seems unfair, but all schools reserve the right to spend funds where they see value. Barker may not do so, but it doesn't mean they are unable to. The option to spend money on development program's to improve the overall performance in a school rugby environment is considerably better than schools who choose to spend their money on bringing in boys in years 10-12, to try and secure a premiership. While $30k on GPS technology seems a lot, it is only marginally higher than one scholarship position. And if i was a parent at any one of these schools mentioned, I would much prefer the development pathway, than seeing boys brought in late. One builds a culture of performance, the other disillusion.

I am not certain on how much Knox spends on their Rugby, but though their 1sts are mid-range this year, their whole program looks to be quite strong this year. Against other CAS schools their winning margin is over 70% and in some cases 80%. So I think their approach may be more holistic than simply shuffling the funds into the 1sts.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Schools rugby programmes should be judged on what the deliver to every boy from Captain of Rugby to the players on the 13F's bench.

Rugby is a team game and a culture that is not just about elite performance.

To many kids in our game, only getting beaten 5-30 by a team that beat them 0-60 in the first round is almost as good as winning the World Cup, and so it should be.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Those considering that they have a right to abuse referees at CAS sports are well advised to read the CAS Code of conduct for Parents or Spectators (as appropriate)
Available here: http://www.cas.nsw.edu.au/code-of-conduct/

Code of conduct​

PARENTS

• Focus upon the boy’s efforts and performance rather than the overall outcome of the game. This assists the boy in setting realistic goals related to his ability by reducing emphasis on winning.
• Teach your son that an honest effort is as important as victory, so that the result of the game is accepted without undue disappointment.
• Encourage your always to play according to the rules of the game.
• Never ridicule or yell at your son or another boy for making a mistake or losing a game.
• Remember boys are involved in organised sports for their benefit and enjoyment, not yours.
• Remember that children learn best from example. Applaud good play by both teams.
• If you disagree with an official, raise the issue through the appropriate channels rather than question the official’s judgement and honesty in public. Remember most officials give their time and effort voluntarily for your son’s benefit.
• Support all efforts to remove verbal and physical abuse from sporting activities.
• Recognise the value and importance of coaches. They give of their time and resources to provide recreational activities for your son and other boys and deserve your support.

SPECTATORS

• We encourage boys to support their school teams and to be dressed in the school’s uniform while doing so.
• We expect barracking to be enthusiastic but not to be fanatical or designed to heckle or belittle or disturb the opponents. For example, barracking, for or against, during a kick at goal is always bad sportsmanship. Boys should be encouraged to barrack for their school rather than for an individual team member. Booing, whistling, playing or beating musical instruments are in bad taste and wholly unacceptable.
• Vocal support for any team should never encourage violence or rough or illegal play.
• Encroaching onto the field of play, the shouting out of suggestions for players, referees or umpires to hear are not allowed.
• It is never acceptable to express disapproval of a referee’s or umpire’s decision – no matter whether the referee be adult or schoolboy.
• There is a complete ban on all alcoholic drinks at grounds where games between Associated Schools’ teams are being played.
• We expect our players to be modest in success and generous in defeat, not showing in either case undue emotion. Good play, by our own school and by the opposing school, should be applauded willingly and openly.
• At all times spectators should leave the area tidy and free of rubbish when they leave.
• We look to adults (parents, Old Boys and other spectators) to set an example by their self-control at matches.

​

 

[thecow]

Take this approach with these referees issues:

"Praise in public, critcise in private."

Think about it this way. If it was your son, brother, etc., who was out there refereeing, would you like it if they got abused by spectators, or by anonymous people online.

Yes we criticise players even though they can do a better job as a player than we can. But we also praise them when praise is due. Maybe that approach should be done towards referees as well?

 

[Benched '84]

Thanks Hugh, but I think the best option is to just get rid of the offending comments asap, people will quickly learn.

There are some great games coming up in the last two rounds, Barker has two "must wins", for the outright Premiership.
This Sat, Barker vs Trinity & Cranbrook vs Knox (appologies to Aloys, Waves should have a good win) and Sat 10th, Barker vs Knox & Trinity vs Waves, and Aloy's home game against Cranbrook.

Both Barker and Waves have to be very aware of second round complacency, Good luck to all the boys!!

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

Good stuff huge jarse. Any word on replacement for o'donelll ... Cooper murphy would set up nicely for next year?

 

[Fred87]

Those considering that they have a right to abuse referees at CAS sports are well advised to read the CAS Code of conduct for Parents or Spectators

I don't think anyone here is advocating "a right to abuse referees at CAS sports". From time to time there is barracking of the ref at games but for the most part at CAS games i have attended this year the vast bulk of spectators and participants respect the referees, as they should!

Abusing a referee at a CAS sports event is completely different to post match analysis in an online forum which hopefully can be a bit more considered and reflective. For my part i believe praise where i see it due and criticism where i see it due are appropriate. Part of the fun of online forums is to argue various points. If you want to ban all comments on ref's so be it; but it seems to me to be political correctness run amok.

 

[Snort]

There are two important points to be made here. First, the general standard of refereeing in the CAS games this year (that I have seen) has been pretty poor. On Saturday I saw a referee (in an Opens game, but not the 1sts) penalise one team, then immediately penalise the other for not taking the tap on the mark. And the second Trinity/Aloysius game was marred by a really poor display.

But, you know what? We need them. And it's still the case that, no matter how bad they may be, they're always right. A lot of teams I've seen this year need to learn that lesson.

Incidentally, if I were refereeing these days, i'd be driven crazy by the number of players trying to do my job. At every breakdown, the scrum half on each team seems to think it's his job to explain to the ref why a penalty should be given. On Saturday, I saw (in the 1sts) a quick tap taken when most of the defending players were not back ten metres. The defending fullback ran up to just behind the defensive line yelling repeatedly "I'm onside, sir, I'm onside!", presumably thinking that this would distract the ref from all the players who were not. Refs shouldn't have to put up with nonsense like that.

 

[Fred87]

Also puzzled by the new found sensitivity to criticism of the ref.

See post # 467, 882, 925, 935, & many others for more strident criticism than comments in the last few days....anyway, no more from me on the topic..

 

[The Chosen]

All CAS !st & @2nd Grade games have referees appointed by NSW Referees Association- there certainly should be no home town bias in these games.
Occasionally the School games are allocated `top guns' and it was great lasat Saturday to have Knox vs Aloys reffed by Nathan Pearce (1st Grade/ex Super 15). His firm efficiency & clear instructions/explanations were first-class.