CAS Rugby 2012

[kiwi playing in Oz]

All the more reason why you are susceptible to bias.. you've watched them from 13, probably meaning you know them on a personal level, and therefore as I doubt you've seen a substantial amount of any other team (or at least i doubt you've been following every CAS side since they were 13), the void, being your lack of knowledge of other players abilities is being filled with "oh they don't deserve to be there", "this trinity player is better because I've seen him play for this long and he's just been off form this year", its no excuse to put down another player who is perfectly capable of playing in that position.. It's strange how little complaints heard about a Waverly boy that supposedly deserves to be there, because from what I've seen the whole CAS team should practically just be Trinity. I have seen complaints of people from trinity not making CAS 1s in the following postions: 1,2,4,8,9,12 when there are already players from trinity in 3,10,14.. Sure voice your opinion, thats what this forum is for, but don't put people down in the process, and back your opinion with some valid evidence (ie they performed better against the other player, they are better in defence which is a quality that this side needs, they are more suited to this position because of ...). Simply stating "they don't deserve to be there" is more a personal attack than a valid argument, no matter what your intended reasoning is.. If wants to dispute a decision on this list try avoiding offensive tones and connotations, and perhaps wait to see how they perform on thursday? By all means then tell me how a trinity player is better suited to the position

Just for you r2d2 "wow the non-selection of Cam Orr and Malaki Afele is a statement! The CAS comp must be so strong and those players who were selected in their spots must be bloody good! Looking forward to hearing the result on thursday then i can eat my words". Hope that makes it all better )

 

[Snort]

One point that seems to have been overlooked in the rather heated debate over CAS selections is that the coaches do have the ability to use substitutes, as do coaches at most levels of the game. It would not surprise me one bit if Orr and especially Tiumalu-Afele don't play the full game in Seconds and get used as impact players late in the Firsts game. Certainly the Firsts would have a bit more grunt if Tiumalu-Afele had been picked as, say, blind-side flanker, and Williams was in the second row rather than Mee. But then the side would not have the same ball-winning ability. Selection isn't just about working out which players have talent, it's to do with picking a team that can play the game you want to play. Trinity has explosive runners and very average ball-winning capacity. I wouldn't want to go into a representative game like that.

 

[Done that]

All the more reason why you are susceptible to bias.. you've watched them from 13, probably meaning you know them on a personal level, and therefore as I doubt you've seen a substantial amount of any other team (or at least i doubt you've been following every CAS side since they were 13), the void, being your lack of knowledge of other players abilities is being filled with "oh they don't deserve to be there", "this trinity player is better because I've seen him play for this long and he's just been off form this year", its no excuse to put down another player who is perfectly capable of playing in that position.. It's strange how little complaints heard about a Waverly boy that supposedly deserves to be there, because from what I've seen the whole CAS team should practically just be Trinity. I have seen complaints of people from trinity not making CAS 1s in the following postions: 1,2,4,8,9,12 when there are already players from trinity in 3,10,14.. Sure voice your opinion, thats what this forum is for, but don't put people down in the process, and back your opinion with some valid evidence (ie they performed better against the other player, they are better in defence which is a quality that this side needs, they are more suited to this position because of ...). Simply stating "they don't deserve to be there" is more a personal attack than a valid argument, no matter what your intended reasoning is.. If wants to dispute a decision on this list try avoiding offensive tones and connotations, and perhaps wait to see how they perform on thursday? By all means then tell me how a trinity player is better suited to the position

KPIO voiced the opinion that it was "madness " not to select 2 of the Trinity players in CAS 1's.
Is there something wrong with that ?
How is his post any different to many other contributions on this thread regarding selections , including some of your own ?
Why should he not mention the players he feels should be selected ?
By your reasoning anyone who selects a player / team is therefore "putting down" the players he didn't select.
Ridiculous.
And what do you call "valid evidence" ?
Selecting a Rugby team is principally about personal opinions & impressions , & influenced by the selectors experience & judgement , it's not empirical , & your " valid evidence " may not be someone else's.
Also , in your criticism of him , you have listed 2 quotations which you attributed to KPIO , & looking through his posts I see no evidence that these words belong to anyone other than yourself.
If he's been watching certain players since they were 13 , then surely this allows him some opinion about their relative abilities .
As they have not been playing against themselves , he has also observed players from opposition teams , I presume.
Should he be thought to be any more biased than anyone else who contributes to this forum , including you & I ?
We only have your word that you are free of any such encumbrances .
By the way , I don't know KPIO from a bar of soap .

 

[The Chosen]

Regarding the Trinity players selections, the argument for "this player is a great individual player but doesn't mix with the team" is dodgy. Sure you may think trinity have been an overrated side this year as the results have proven, but individual ability does play a role. The current CAS team sounds like a decent team with a few selections up for debate, consisting of predominantly barker, and trinity and waverly. Yet, come the game vs GPS, CAS has no chance in the world, because they are missing the individuals who can turn the game. I believe the selectors have gone for a conservative pick, not selecting Cameron Orr, Malaki Afele and Ola Moala. No matter how I see it, I don't see Pederson, Marais or even Williams making a dominant impact upon the game. I suspect the selectors to be guilty of going for a team balancing equal commitment of the schools involved minus barker who deserved it, or selecting a pack that is fundamentally sound, yet lacking individual brilliance of which the GPS side will be full of both. Considering this is a first year for the majority of the CAS selectors, I wouldn't be surprised, but hopefully they will realize soon what they require to match the fundamentally sound, yet extraordinarily explosive GPS team.

Kindly advise the basis of your assertion that this is a first year for the majority of the CAS selectors. I don't think this is correct at all.

 

[Lee Grant]

Guys settle down and treat others with different opinions with respect.

Also please lay off the long quotes which just take up space. Instead just quote a section of what somebody wrote - or something like:

"Bill Bloggs - about your post #548 ...... "


At least you aren't accusing the selectors of bias or politics.

 

[no9]

While many of you here debate the allocations of selections to each school take a minute and realise how lucky you are that you don't come under the ISA selection lunacy that managed to not select a single player from Oakhill, the same team that accounted for the undefeated leaders of the CAS competition only 6 or 7 weeks ago.

 

[Cubesquare]

Kindly advise the basis of your assertion that this is a first year for the majority of the CAS selectors. I don't think this is correct at all.

I would happen to know because I have affiliations with certain previous selectors.

 

[rtd32]

You're being pretty "precious " .
And what do you call "valid evidence" ?
.

He's playing an outstanding performance in an undefeated team might suffice?
That was not all directed at that one particular person but hey, be my guest and take it that way.. Also, claiming I have in any circumstance put anybody down, or said "they don't deserve to be in the team", "they aren't good enough" is as you quote "ridiculous" considering if you actually did read my comments you wouldn't find any, except for maybe something on Tyson Davis whom i have seen a lot of this season, and later withdrew any negative statements of before... Oh please, save the "he's seen trinity play against other CAS schools since they were 13 also", from what I know, Tom Wilson and Henry Pederson came into Barker in later age groups (I think pederson was year 10 and Tom year 9?), not to mention the original reasoning behind the point made, being this person is hardly going to be watching an under 13,14,15 game for the quality of rugby and players on the field, but more likely to support friends or family... This is my favourite part of what you said - "Selecting a Rugby team is principally about personal opinions & impressions , & influenced by the selectors experience & judgement , it's not empirical , & your " valid evidence " may not be someone else's." because it carries the most truth, I happen to agree with the impartial selectors HIRED to select this team, as I have not challenged any decision made (In fact the only ones I have challenged have been for players that were chosen second to a Barker player, the team I'm supposedly biased towards), and that should answer your last question, how do I know you don't know KPIO? I don't, but anybody who tries to defend him to the extent you have either does, or more likely, is a trinity supporter offended by what I have said, and feeling your school has been hard done by because only 3 players have been selected...

Comments towards Flaherty have been particularly derogatory if you have a proper look over by the way, so no that comment just didnt come out of nowhere. I like the trinity supporters passion and commitment to their side, but please consider certain factors such as I dont know? the ladder/who's currently performing better when making assertions (this is a good start for evidence), because lets face it, if a teams losing, its for a reason.. Another final point so that people can understand my tone (and that I'm not trying to offend anyone), there are players in every school of this competition that have the right to feel hard done by, the best example is Pearson (no.6) from barker is reserving CAS 2's for Naude from barker, who is playing in the CAS 6 jersey, when he normally plays second row... not to mention for much of the season Naude has been playing in Barker 2nds... Haven't heard many complaints from the lack of Knox boys who made CAS 1's, or the Kitchen fans who thought he deserved the 1's jersey, and perhaps he does? we'll find out.. Haven't heard much about the Cranbrook winger who failed to even make the squad, despite making an extremely good impression on me... Farley from waverly has only had a few mentions.. Sure they have all been mentioned as contenders, and perhaps hard done by not to make 1s, but nobody has protested as strong or hard as the trinity boys across a number of positions.. Snort has got it right, they may still get a run in 1's even if they don't start, and if they're better, they will prove it

 

[rtd32]

While many of you here debate the allocations of selections to each school take a minute and realise how lucky you are that you don't come under the ISA selection lunacy that managed to not select a single player from Oakhill, the same team that accounted for the undefeated leaders of the CAS competition only 6 or 7 weeks ago.

Oak Hill were an extremely good side from what i saw of them against Knox.. I thought players like Tuckwell and Woodward would have easily made the representative side?

 

[Done that]

rtd32 re #551
It's difficult to respond to each point in your post without sounding insulting & offensive , (and the words " non sequitur " seem hopelessly inadequate) , so I won't .
However , the bottom line is that KPIO feels that , in his opinion , 2 players who failed to be selected in the CAS 1's , should have been .
He's entitled to express his opinion .
He doesn't require your permission or consent , nor does his view have to coincide with yours or mine or anyone else's is irrelevant.
This is a public forum.

 

[kiwi playing in Oz]

I gave up trying to justify myself to r2d2. Get over it now mate and move on. To you Trinity people what has happened to Jake Roberts? Have his injuries got the better of him or did he see sense and concentrate on the academic advantages of going to a school like Trinity?
BTW r2 I don't know anyone on this forum from a bar of soap either! Paranoia is a killer!

 

[rtd32]

rtd32 re #551

This is a public forum.

indeed.. and therefore it is open to the public, and therefore it is somewhat proper to express these opinions with a more tame approach.. "Sheer madness not to have orr and afele in the team", would suggest that those playing above them were obviously nowhere near as capable to play in the 1sts, just like its sheer madness to run down the street naked or jump of a 50 story building and expect to survive.. basically what I'm saying is that not only is this guy saying the selectors are somewhat stupid, but he's also suggesting the players they have chosen are completely inadequate for such a level of rugby, when anybody else, who doesn't attend these schools, (maybe even Orr and Afele themselves) would tell you otherwise.. The fact this is a public forum is the main part of the message I'm trying to make, did you ever consider perhaps that players themselves may be reading these suggestions? Perhaps they may take extreme offense from these careless 'voiced opinions', that don't really carry any substance. I'm not having a go at trinity, their supporters last weekend were extremely well mannered (compared to the Barker crowd at least, who were shouting all sorts of unnecessary comments)... Sure, you have your freedom of speech, but if you voice a dodgy opinion, or make offensive statements, people aren't going to think highly of you, and telling them "you have a right to speak your mind, even if it is contrary to a professional" isn' t going to really help your cause in showing that a) your opinion is valid, and b) you don't mean offense

 

[rtd32]

I gave up trying to justify myself to r2d2. Get over it now mate and move on. To you Trinity people what has happened to Jake Roberts? Have his injuries got the better of him or did he see sense and concentrate on the academic advantages of going to a school like Trinity?
BTW r2 I don't know anyone on this forum from a bar of soap either! Paranoia is a killer!

I don't get it

 

[Since1961]

I've got it: the mystery is solved.

Trinity is just emulating the Wallabies. Not surprising, seeing as quite a number of the green and whites have donned the green and gold of JGS, NTS and whatever other TLAs exist on that pathway to gold. They can win an arm wrestle and then lose a sitter, without any undue level of new player induction.

Compare the similarities: lose the games that have been won mentally before kick-off, undeniable individual skills yet the rugby gods still find unusual ways in which they can be beaten, kicks from the tee often having a mind of their own, etc.

Whether the state of the weather is a factor may need consideration: maybe Trinity ran better on drier tracks last year (acknowledging Waverley vs Trinity was played at Summer Hill, as was T v W, due to the weather). From what I hear, Hornsby last Saturday was similar to Newcastle tonight. Gifted individuals can be creweled by sodden pitches, particularly if the pissy little moulded bumps on some school kids' (and even S15 professionals') boots mean that the players are literally spinning the wheels.

As hard as it may be for some, feel welcome to 'like' this, as it's not something that I'm up for another epic debate over .........

 

[Newbie]

I came in to see if the mud-slinging had stopped; I guess not!

Fella's enough!

Please give the construction industry some much needed work; "BUILD BRIDGES AND GET OVER IT" ... lmao! Or mix some cement in the weetbix and "HARDEN THE ^%#% UP" ... lol!

Do whatever floats your boat, but please let's try and be nice to one another!

So opinions on last nights Aus v Sco water polo match?

 

[Cubesquare]

This would have been my CAS team

1. Orr
2. Wilson
3. Satiu
4. Williams
5. Mee/Fay
6. Moala
7. Johnson
8. Malaki
9. Jenkins
10. Clark
11. Patterson
12. Stolz
13. Flaherty
14. Whileman/Davies
15. Clunies Ross

 

[Lee Grant]

Who are the CAS players tomorrow in the trials who have a good chance to get into the NSW teams?

Discussion on fellows who missed out on selection, or should have been in the Ones not the Twos, is not needed to answer my question.

Thanks

PS - Please write about the CAS v CHS trial and all NSW trials in the NSW Schools 2012 and Trial Games thread - not this one.
.

 

[Snort]

Who are the CAS players tomorrow in the trials who have a good chance to get into the NSW teams?

.

Tom Wilson (B) was there last year, reserve for NSW 1s. He was excellent the one time I've seen him this year, and I'd expect him to be in line to win one of the hookers' spots. Junior Satiu (T) is a terrific player and it will take some very strong opposition to cost him a place in the front row. And, look, I think Henry Clunies-Ross (T) is special. I played with Rob Egerton in his early days at Sydney University, and Clunies-Ross reminds me of Egerton at the same age - he looks skinny and defenders think they have him covered, but then he takes off and he's quick and elusive and surprisingly strong. Not much chance of him shining tomorrow, though - if the rain keeps up they'll be playing in a lake.

 

[no9]

Oak Hill were an extremely good side from what i saw of them against Knox.. I thought players like Tuckwell and Woodward would have easily made the representative side?

ISA selectors ability to make fools of themselves is legendary. I agree with your thoughts.

 

[Lee Grant]

I think Henry Clunies-Ross (T) is special. I played with Rob Egerton in his early days at Sydney University, and Clunies-Ross reminds me of Egerton at the same age - he looks skinny and defenders think they have him covered, but then he takes off and he's quick and elusive and surprisingly strong.

That's a good recommendation Snort - but does he play with his socks down too?
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