CAS 2018

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^^^

Come on ref said there’s no NSW u15’s and I can’t find team lists, so just going on heresay on threads.

Are there team lists anywhere?

 

[WLF]

WLF, I agree there were some ‘interesting’ selection choices last year. It does seem though that there is a fair gnashing of teeth most years on this issue.

Where I beg to differ is on the concept of ‘playing out of position’. What does this mean and who determines it? Was Izzy playing out of position at 14 for the Tahs last week and, if so, does that mean Cheika should never be permitted to select him there? Closer to home, if CAS select Moretti at 4 this year, does this mean NSW and potentially ASB selectors should be limited to selecting him there when he has previously performed at 6 or 8? These might seem obvious anomalies, but plenty of boys have experience in a number of positions. Who decides what their ‘specialist’ position is and how long are they bound to only play that position before they are allowed to play and be selected in another?

C&P, Fair enough, I just think the best players should be chosen in their best/favourite position.

Yes boys probably do play a few similar type positions throughout their career but I think most would say they have a preferred position that they think best suits their ability and best helps the team.
Typically I think the CAS selectors do this pretty well. Beyond that level well.....

The difficult situation probably only arises when you get 2+ players of unique ability in the same position eg Reimer and Moretti.
My view here is the better player should be chosen in that position first, and then if selectors still want the other player,then another position needs to be assessed.

Anyway I guess its a nice problem to have.

 

[I love Knox]

Anyone got their predicted ladder?


Also would be keen to see some black horse names thrown in the mix for CAS reps

 

[BMW]

C&P, Fair enough, I just think the best players should be chosen in their best/favourite position.

Yes boys probably do play a few similar type positions throughout their career but I think most would say they have a preferred position that they think best suits their ability and best helps the team.
Typically I think the CAS selectors do this pretty well. Beyond that level well...

The difficult situation probably only arises when you get 2+ players of unique ability in the same position eg Reimer and Moretti.
My view here is the better player should be chosen in that position first, and then if selectors still want the other player,then another position needs to be assessed.

Anyway I guess its a nice problem to have.

I agree for Aussie school boys to succeed we need to be picking the best 15 in there correct positions. For to long I have seen boys picked in other positions. Why do you think Australian Schoolboys fail its because we pick players at lower level reps like CAS that when at National level the numbers have shorten because they the Aust schoolboys dont have the correct depth to fill the positions correct. We need to be focused on selecting the best 15 players no matter what level.
Why do you think NZ and England schoolboys do so well. Last years NZ schoolboys no player playing out of postion. I know this as a friend of mine is a rugby selector at schoolboy level in NZ and they do not pick players out of position.

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[scotsman18]

Ben Pollack for Aloys should be a strong contender for the 10 spot. Strong attacking and defensive game. Easy shoe in for CAS reps it will be hard to keep him out of 1s.

 

[CatchnPass]

Why do you think Australian Schoolboys fail

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Because the Kiwis are generally better man on man. The reasons for that are many, but start with the fact that virtually every decent male athlete in NZ would give his left teste to play for NZ schoolboys whereas our best are spread across a number of codes. I don’t think playing lads ‘out of position’ has much to do with it, but have no way of confirming that.

 

[BMW]

Because the Kiwis are generally better man on man. The reasons for that are many, but start with the fact that virtually every decent male athlete in NZ would give his left teste to play for NZ schoolboys whereas our best are spread across a number of codes. I don’t think playing lads ‘out of position’ has much to do with it, but have no way of confirming that.

Very true no way of proving it. Back in the 80's and early 90's most players were picked from the position they played in. You would never see a loose forward picked in the second row. Wingers was anoth position if you dont normally play that position you wouldnt be picked as a winger. Most positions are very specialized these days. Thats why NZ are so strong because they pick specialsed players. Yes they run hard.....but NZ ball security, positional play in both attack and defence is superb. Yes we do have to many codes in Australia but again whats different from today compared to the 80's on and 90's.
The Aussie U21's were a strong showing in the 80's and 90's but today our U20's have been struggling big time. But in saying that i believe the U20's have been training well and look to be developing a strong well balanced side.
Why didnt ACT get more players selected??? Why did NSW 1 and 2 perform badly last year. Im just saying we need to select players on form, not from the school they attend or how much money mum and dad have. If we pick players on form than maybe players will where the jumper with pride.

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[BMW]

Ben Pollack for Aloys should be a strong contender for the 10 spot. Strong attacking and defensive game. Easy shoe in for CAS reps it will be hard to keep him out of 1s.

We need a good 10 as I think John Connelly from Kings with be there 10. Very good player also

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[BMW]

Ben Pollack for Aloys should be a strong contender for the 10 spot. Strong attacking and defensive game. Easy shoe in for CAS reps it will be hard to keep him out of 1s.

Thats good as GPS have a fantastic 10 in J.C from Kings.

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[Armchair Selector]

Thats good as GPS have a fantastic 10 in J.C from Kings.

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The GPS #10 spot will be hotly contested; Charlie Savala (Scots) NSW I, Vincent Creagh (Joeys) NSW Shadow?, Matt Minogue (Kings) GPS Blue + called in to higher honours I think, John Connelly (Kings) GPS 1 and GnG 2017 Rising star and Dominic Easy (Riverview) GPS I?.

Suspect a few boys may be playing in GPS team "out of position"

 

[BMW]

The GPS #10 spot will be hotly contested; Charlie Savala (Scots) NSW I, Vincent Creagh (Joeys) NSW Shadow?, Matt Minogue (Kings) GPS Blue + called in to higher honours I think, John Connelly (Kings) GPS 1 and GnG 2017 Rising star and Dominic Easy (Riverview) GPS I?.

Suspect a few boys may be playing in GPS team "out of position"

Thanks Armchair yes GPS have some talent and depth.

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[sidelineview]

Because the Kiwis are generally better man on man. The reasons for that are many, but start with the fact that virtually every decent male athlete in NZ would give his left teste to play for NZ schoolboys whereas our best are spread across a number of codes. I don’t think playing lads ‘out of position’ has much to do with it, but have no way of confirming that.

You're right.
There's usually always some controversy surrounding the selections of junior and schoolboy rep teams. It's nothing new.

Playing players out of position had nothing to do with the Kiwis dominating the Aussie Schoolboys last season. It's no reflection on the Australian players; they wore the jumper with pride and tried their hearts out.
it's just that the Kiwis were too good. It's as simple as that.
As you mentioned there are many reasons why the Kiwis have the jump on us at the moment.They do a lot of things right and rugby has less competition from other codes.

But there are some encouraging signs with Australian rugby: It seems the GenBlue mob are upping the ante in developing players, and the innovation of playing an U19s comp towards the end of the season in preparation for next year's U20s World Cup looks to be a good idea.

It's lucky that rugby in private schools is so popular because it pumps a lot of blood into Australian rugby. The Australian Schools Championships are not only enjoyable to watch but it provides a lot of opportunities for the players in deciding what they'll do post school.
Some go to league, but there had already been a lot of work put into developing those players up to that point at Club and School levels.
There's a lot of good work being done in Australian rugby in schools and junior clubs but whether it can catch up to NZ rugby is debatable.

 

[Scrumtimeisfuntime]

I’ve investigated further:

CAS open rep players returning in 2018:

NIKOLAS-ALEXANDER GINIS (T) Prop
THOMAS LAMBERT (T) Prop
LACHLAN ILIAS (T) (NSW 1’s) Centre/10/15
LUCA MORETTI (W) (Aus schoolboys) Backrow
HARRY WHITEMAN (W) (NSW 2’s) Second Row
PHOENIX BALDWIN (W) Winger
BILLY POLLARD (B) Hooker/Backrow
LUKE REIMER (B) (NSW 1’s) Backrow
Jayden KITCHENER (B) Lloyd McDermott Rep team. Fullback/9/10
DAVID TEJCEK (B) (NSW 1’s) Halfback
JAMES WESTBURY (A) 10/15

Players in CAS that represented NSW u16’s in 2017 or 16 but have not yet represented opens CAS:

Conor Molloy (W) (2016 and 2017) Backrow
Lathan Hutchinson-Walters (W) Fullback
Kyle Galloway (B) Winger
Jordan Cameron (B) Second row
Sam Rechner (K) Centre
Will Kablau (K) Prop
Oliver Hughes (K) Second Row
Malachi Hawkes (T) Prop
Ben Pollack (A) 10

Rep league players not mentioned above:

Tane Edmed (T) 10/12/15
Tadgh Murphy (W) Backrow
Jordan Swann (W) centre in league - so a winger?

Please let me know if this information is incorrect and I will fix the mistakes and credit you below.

Some of this information is based on posts on this board as well as input from other commentators and my investigations.

There are 5 open NSW players and 9 NSW U16’s players to build the CAS squads around. Plus another 6 who were in opens CAS in 2017. So 20 players with high quality rep experience. Good for CAS in 2018. There were also another 3 boys listed in league representative teams that will likely be in the mix.

Not saying they should all be 1sts or Rep teams at all, but it’s a helpful place to start.

There are also quite a few players that have had Sydney junior rep experience as shown in the link below - I don’t know all the players so if you know boys that are here, let me know. This is obviously not as the same level as NSW though.

Some names noticed from CAS schools:

Marco Moretti, Aisea Aholelei, Malachi Hawkes, Levi Milford, Luca Antico, Jordan Swann, Justice Stuls, Alex O’Reilly. Let me know if there are others im missing, I feel I’ve investigated enough!

https://www.sjru.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/sjru-2017-report-final.pdf

***now also with input from ‘come on ref’ and ‘Carl speckler.’

Miles Branagan (aloys) also played CAS 2s last year

 

[BMW]

You're right.
There's usually always some controversy surrounding the selections of junior and schoolboy rep teams. It's nothing new.

Playing players out of position had nothing to do with the Kiwis dominating the Aussie Schoolboys last season. It's no reflection on the Australian players; they wore the jumper with pride and tried their hearts out.
it's just that the Kiwis were too good. It's as simple as that.
As you mentioned there are many reasons why the Kiwis have the jump on us at the moment.They do a lot of things right and rugby has less competition from other codes.

But there are some encouraging signs with Australian rugby: It seems the GenBlue mob are upping the ante in developing players, and the innovation of playing an U19s comp towards the end of the season in preparation for next year's U20s World Cup looks to be a good idea.

It's lucky that rugby in private schools is so popular because it pumps a lot of blood into Australian rugby. The Australian Schools Championships are not only enjoyable to watch but it provides a lot of opportunities for the players in deciding what they'll do post school.
Some go to league, but there had already been a lot of work put into developing those players up to that point at Club and School levels.
There's a lot of good work being done in Australian rugby in schools and junior clubs but whether it can catch up to NZ rugby is debatable.

Well written agree.

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[Vintage Red]

The GPS #10 spot will be hotly contested; Charlie Savala (Scots) NSW I, Vincent Creagh (Joeys) NSW Shadow?, Matt Minogue (Kings) GPS Blue + called in to higher honours I think, John Connelly (Kings) GPS 1 and GnG 2017 Rising star and Dominic Easy (Riverview) GPS I?.

Suspect a few boys may be playing in GPS team "out of position"

Minogue & Easy both played NSW 2 from memory. Connolly was injured during GPS 1 v. CAS 1 and was therefore not available for the National Championships.

 

[Backline_Move]

The GPS #10 spot will be hotly contested; Charlie Savala (Scots) NSW I, Vincent Creagh (Joeys) NSW Shadow?, Matt Minogue (Kings) GPS Blue + called in to higher honours I think, John Connelly (Kings) GPS 1 and GnG 2017 Rising star and Dominic Easy (Riverview) GPS I?.

Suspect a few boys may be playing in GPS team "out of position"

While Connolly was selected in firsts- he spent the year playing 15 at Kings. A unique decision that ultimately backfired by playing him in a different position.

Dom easy is a 12.. not a 10.. ask the NSW 2’s coach..

Vincent Creagh is a handy ball runner- will play 10 for Joeys, but is more likely a 12 as well.

Savala will be GPS 10 for 2018.

 

[BMW]

While Connolly was selected in firsts- he spent the year playing 15 at Kings. A unique decision that ultimately backfired by playing him in a different position.

Dom easy is a 12.. not a 10.. ask the NSW 2’s coach..

Vincent Creagh is a handy ball runner- will play 10 for Joeys, but is more likely a 12 as well.

Savala will be GPS 10 for 2018.

Conolly is a better at 15 than 10.

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[CatchnPass]

Very true no way of proving it. Back in the 80's and early 90's most players were picked from the position they played in. You would never see a loose forward picked in the second row. Wingers was anoth position if you dont normally play that position you wouldnt be picked as a winger. Most positions are very specialized these days. Thats why NZ are so strong because they pick specialsed players. Yes they run hard...but NZ ball security, positional play in both attack and defence is superb. Yes we do have to many codes in Australia but again whats different from today compared to the 80's on and 90's.
The Aussie U21's were a strong showing in the 80's and 90's but today our U20's have been struggling big time. But in saying that i believe the U20's have been training well and look to be developing a strong well balanced side.
Why didnt ACT get more players selected??? Why did NSW 1 and 2 perform badly last year. Im just saying we need to select players on form, not from the school they attend or how much money mum and dad have. If we pick players on form than maybe players will where the jumper with pride.

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Ahhhh the 80s - Depeche Mode, Acid wash jeans and Kylie on Neighbours. Much as it was fun, the world has moved on quite a bit since then. Whatever the recipe was for winning Rugby matches then is unlikely to be the panacea now, though did we win? I recall a fair few heavy defeats by the ABs (no idea re ASB results) so I’m not sure we would necessarily want to emulate it.

Leaving all else aside (and there’s a fair bit to unpack), we simply do not have a sufficient number of kids coming through club rugby and staying with rugby through to opens to ever match it consistently with NZ schools. Can that be fixed? With the increasing reach, $ and media dominance of AFL I doubt it.

 

[WLF]

Ahhhh the 80s - Depeche Mode, Acid wash jeans and Kylie on Neighbours. Much as it was fun, the world has moved on quite a bit since then. Whatever the recipe was for winning Rugby matches then is unlikely to be the panacea now, though did we win? I recall a fair few heavy defeats by the ABs (no idea re ASB results) so I’m not sure we would necessarily want to emulate it.

Leaving all else aside (and there’s a fair bit to unpack), we simply do not have a sufficient number of kids coming through club rugby and staying with rugby through to opens to ever match it consistently with NZ schools. Can that be fixed? With the increasing reach, $ and media dominance of AFL I doubt it.

Yeh man,

The 70s/80s, the Ballroom biltz. leg warmers ( no I didn't have them), a flock of seagulls/Roger Ventouris , and Robbie Williams in a great band called take that, we called it, cop this, wonderful days full of natural talent not over trained.

That's enough red!

 

[Truck n trailer]

Any updated predictions on the ladder? Curious about how performances at 7's and trials has on table expectations.