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Brumbies vs Waratahs - 2011R06

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BrumbiesPolynesian

Fred Wood (13)
I would dump for Speight for Andrew Smith in an instant...

Speight is the only weak link in those outside backs...

Has shown no reason in the first few rounds to even be in the 22...

I think he probably hasnt been given the good go forward ball that he thrives on, and also hasnt been given the space to create. I think if you look at what he does off the ball, that would be one of the main reasons he is still holding his spot, he does a lot of work off the ball at ruck, cleans out like a loosie and also at the breakdown, is pretty handy and creating turn overs. Put him in the end of a backline that is creating inside him (like Waikato was last season) and then I think you will see why Andy Friend chased him hard.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
I think you are quite wrong on this point Ruggo. After the debacle against the Cheetahs and their second half capitulation against the Crusaders a reversion to conservative rugby unless it is pissing down with rain will do nothing to appease the people they have upset. They must play well, and execute a good balanced game plan in an accurate way to start winning back support. Their mode of play is more important than the win IMO, as important as that is. Regardless of how many games they won last year they only played well in three or four. Their bumbling and poor execution is what loses them fans.

I don't disagree with you but I find the Tahs the type of team to go into their shell under pressure. I would not be suprised if the Tahs attitude to get the fans back on side is to just get the win. I am niot saying it is the right approach but I see it as the most likely.

The stakes are high for both sides and I can't help but feel this is a banana skin game for both sides.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
I don't disagree with you but I find the Tahs the type of team to go into their shell under pressure. I would not be suprised if the Tahs attitude to get the fans back on side is to just get the win. I am niot saying it is the right approach but I see it as the most likely.

The stakes are high for both sides and I can't help but feel this is a banana skin game for both sides.

You are most probably right in your reasoning Ruggo, but if they take this route they should not be surprised if they get sub- 15K crowds at the rest of their home games this season, which could in all likelyhood see the Tahs in the hands of the administrators. It makes me see the structural separation of the Tahs and the NSWRU in a whole new light.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
I don't disagree with you but I find the Tahs the type of team to go into their shell under pressure. I would not be suprised if the Tahs attitude to get the fans back on side is to just get the win. I am niot saying it is the right approach but I see it as the most likely.

The stakes are high for both sides and I can't help but feel this is a banana skin game for both sides.

this is the major problem with rugby fans, the tahs should be playing there best game plan to win the game and the comp. fans should support there team. thats how it should work. if the boys look at how they let themselves down and play against the brumbies in a way that they dont let themselves or the other 21 people standing in a jersey then the fans will be looked after. they shouldnt give a shit what we think right now though, we aint playing, our job is to support them not the other way around.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
WJ the problem is the Tahs will be able to use an ultra conservative game plan and win 5/7 games against average to good opposition. But as soon as they come up against very good opponents (Crusaders, Blues, Sharks, Stormers) the game plan will not work as their pick and drive game fails to make the gain line as it has in the last two games. When they attempt something different they are not up to it because it is not what they do as their first instinct and they have not been upskilled to execute this. This has been the case since before Link took over.

So your argument that they should play their best game plan is not borne out. It is NOT their best game plan, they need a balanced plan involving some "conservative" play but also the ability to attack from depth with the fast re-alignment that Dwyer harps on about. Look at the Tahs attack it is single man hit ups with no second line of attack. The closest we get to the second line of attack is a fast clearance to another one out hit up.

This hasn't won games against the Crusaders on any regular basis so I cannot understand why they continue to do it time and time again. This is the sort of shit that loses them support. I have been a Waratahs supporter for more than 30 years, spare me your blind patriotism that demands acceptance of poor, lazy, disrespectful efforts like last week and stupidity in the form of inflexible and ineffectual game plans.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
Gnostic, I didn't say they should play conservative, I said they should play the best way they can. It's not blind, it's called a team playing to it's strengths which is how the cheetahs beat the tahs on Saturday.

The first two rounds illustrated what the tahs are capable of. They strayed from that and have been punished for it. My expectation of them as a fan is they will know this and adapt.
 

Finsbury Girl

Trevor Allan (34)
Can't see the horrortahs losing to ACT. The only real comp for the Brumbies this year is the fight vs the Vics for the wooden spoon.

If Cross can't even make the starting line up this weekend, his season is doomed. Got to wonder why he made the move?
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
Gnostic, I didn't say they should play conservative, I said they should play the best way they can. It's not blind, it's called a team playing to it's strengths which is how the cheetahs beat the tahs on Saturday.

The first two rounds illustrated what the tahs are capable of. They strayed from that and have been punished for it. My expectation of them as a fan is they will know this and adapt.
I agree WJ! Must be mellowing.

Can't see the horrortahs losing to ACT. The only real comp for the Brumbies this year is the fight vs the Vics for the wooden spoon.

If Cross can't even make the starting line up this weekend, his season is doomed. Got to wonder why he made the move?
Maybe Cross could see the writing on the wall in the west and thought he had a chance in Sydney
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Gnostic, I didn't say they should play conservative, I said they should play the best way they can. It's not blind, it's called a team playing to it's strengths which is how the cheetahs beat the tahs on Saturday.

The first two rounds illustrated what the tahs are capable of. They strayed from that and have been punished for it. My expectation of them as a fan is they will know this and adapt.

That is just it WJ - it isn't their strength. As I said we can point to successive seasons where the narrow pressure oriented game plan has as I said won 5 out of 7 games and then lost them the match against the better sides. For this reason the plan that sees them win those games is also the reason they lose when it counts and then inexplicably lose to a team like the Cheetahs this year and the Highlanders last.

They did not stray from the plan in the second two games. They executed the plan poorly. The plan hasn't evolved much from last year. The structure are pretty close to what they were in 2010. The factor in the loss the the Crusaders was the loss of TPN and the injury to Waugh which a) reduced their accuracy and effectiveness at the set peice b) reduced their ability to win their own ball and compete on the Crusaders ball at the ruck c) and TPN in particular is perhaps the only piggie that was able to make the gain line for the Tahs on attack so their pick and drive runners were constantly under pressure d) perhaps most tellingly Hangers was very very poor in all aspects.

In the Cheetahs game again the game plan was the same it was just perhaps the most uninterested and poorest execution I have ever seen from a Super Rugby team. They had no intensity at all.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
I have to disagree, before TPN went off the tahs were in the crusaders match, the players died off with him and the poor goal kicking was the nail in the coffin that made the task that much harder.

The cheetahs game, I'm not sure after watching it live then again on replay there is enough to suggestvwhat the actual plan was. You would assume it was more cncervative than the one they would have taken into the other games due to the weather but the fact of the matter is it was a completely terrible performance and really isn't comparable with the otter three matches they have been in.

Execution is what has let us down, not chances or style, a couple of passes don't go to ground and all of a sudden were debating how terrible the win was not loss
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Gotta love speculative journalism...

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/s...h-wales-waratahs/story-e6frf4qu-1226027163364

Brumbies centre Adam Ashley-Cooper a '50-50' chance of joining New South Wales Waratahs

Brumbies legend Stephen Larkham has backed Adam Ashley-Cooper to bounce back to form against New South Wales Waratahs on Saturday night but speculation is mounting the star centre will follow it up by joining Phil Waugh's side.

Ashley-Cooper has indicated he will make a decision on his provincial future after the match, having signed with the Australian Rugby Union until the end of 2012 but been granted extra time to decide between the Brumbies and the Waratahs.

Initial confidence in Canberra that Ashley-Cooper would stay seems to be slipping, with the Brumbies camp now rating it more a "50-50" call that the Wallabies centre will move to be closer to his partner in Sydney.

The Brumbies appear to have more certainty on the coaching front after boss Andrew Fagan recently flew to South Africa to meet Jake White, although Ashley-Cooper remains unhappy he was singled out over the axing of Andy Friend.

"He contributes so much on and off the field, he has a great social nature," Larkham said. "Obviously at the Brumbies we'd love to have him stay but I guess if he moved on we'd have to live without him."

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Despite being one of the first Wallabies picked, Ashley-Cooper's struggle to exhibit the same class in recent seasons at Super Rugby level has continued this year.

Larkham said a failure of the Brumbies' attacking shapes had seen Ashley-Cooper too often caught working in tight, and not getting the ball in space where his free-running talent is lethal.

"We are trying to free him up, we have spoken a lot about it," Larkham said. "If we can get through the patterns we want to get through as a team, we are confident he will be given more time and space to use his speed, footwork and that strong fend."

Larkham said while they'd "certainly thought about" moving Ashley-Cooper back to fullback, he was likely to stay at No. 13 to play against NSW.

The Brumbies will name their side on Thursday, with Matt Giteau tipped to move back to inside centre and either Matt To'omua or Christian Lealiifano at No. 10.


The Waratahs will give star hooker Tatafu Polota-Nau until the 11th hour on Saturday night to prove his fitness after returning from a knee injury.

Polota-Nau and captain Waugh were named in a 24-man squad on Wednesday, with Jeremy Tilse also added for the injured Benn Robinson.

Would be great if the highlighted part was true...

I would think that pushing AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) back to fullback and really compromising his Wallaby spot just gives him more reason to go to the Tahs...
 

Brumby Jack

Steve Williams (59)
Brumbies Team announced:

1 Ben Alexander
2 Huia Edmonds
3 Dan Palmer
4 Ben Hand
5 Mark Chisholm
6 Colby Fainga'a
7 Julian Salvi
8 Ita Vaea
9 Josh Valentine
10 Matt Giteau
11 Francis Fainifo
12 Christian Lealiifano
13 Andrew Smith
14 Henry Speight
15 Adam Ashley-Cooper

16 Anthony Hegarty
17 Salesi Ma'afu
18 Peter Kimlin
19 Michael Hooper
20 Patrick Phibbs
21 Matt To'omua
22 Robbie Coleman

Pat Mc Cabe ruled out with a hamstring injury
 
R

Richard D. James

Guest
Seems there are some people happy to see Gits at 10 ....


Hickey relieved Giteau is at No.10
Greg Growden
March 24, 2011


CHRIS HICKEY will not be upset if the Brumbies stick with Matt Giteau at five-eighth for Saturday night's crucial match, as the Waratahs coach believes it is not the Test veteran's best position. Hickey says Giteau will provide greater danger to NSW at Canberra Stadium if he plays at inside-centre.

In a tumultuous season for the Brumbies - head coach Andy Friend was sacked after just two rounds - Giteau has been criticised for his fluctuating form and leadership, with calls for him to be moved to inside-centre to stop the team's slide down the Super Rugby ladder.

However, the Brumbies are expected to reveal this morning that Giteau will remain at five-eighth, while Christian Lealiifano is scheduled to have his first run-on start at inside-centre.
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Adam Ashley-Cooper is expected to be moved from outside-centre to fullback, with Pat McCabe going to outside-centre.

Despite the anticipated reshuffle, some parts of the Brumbies attack don't seem to bother the Waratahs.

''To be honest, I would prefer to see [Giteau] picked at No.10, because I actually think he is a better No.12 than he is a No.10,'' Hickey said yesterday. ''I believe that some of his best performances have been at No.12, rather than No.10. Most of my observations would revolve around his performances with the Wallabies. He has played some terrific games at No.12.

''But it is a bit different when you come back to your club side or province, and you have to do what is best for the team. Sometimes that means playing out of position. Still, quality players, no matter if they are at No.s 10, 12 or 13 or at fullback, will make a pretty significant contribution to the game.''

Hickey still believes the anticipated Brumbies midfield moves could provide some dilemmas.

''Ashley-Cooper is probably their best strike player, so at fullback he will get a bit more room to play,'' Hickey said. ''I have seen McCabe play No.13 for Warringah, and he does a pretty good job there. So they won't lose much in that, while with Lealiifano - he brings a bit of the unknown. He is such a good ball player, they can play him on one side of the ruck and Giteau on the other.''

Hickey yesterday named a 24-man squad, and will wait until after this morning's training before deciding whether injured hooker Tatafu Polota-Nau (knee) and captain Phil Waugh (biceps) will be in the starting XV. The Waratahs are also expected to make midfield changes, with Ryan Cross scheduled to regain the No.13 position, which will result in Lachie Turner returning to the wing in place of Atieli Pakalani.

''We're confident Phil will play, and if Tatafu can train in the morning, then he will be our starting [hooker] option,'' Hickey said. '''As Tatafu is so important, we've decided to give him until tomorrow morning.''

Hickey said it was imperative that Polota-Nau be fully fit.

''This also involves his long-term situation,'' Hickey said. ''I'd hate to think we bring him back for the Brumbies and then he is out for a month, or something like that. Even though it is early in the season, it does have the potential of being a defining match.

''But when you're making decisions about key players like Tatafu and Phil, you've got to remember we do have another 12 weeks to play as well. And you always have to consider the welfare of the player.''

The Rebels, meanwhile, have made the surprise move of selecting back-up halfback Richard Kingi to replace the injured Julian Huxley at fullback against the Hurricanes in Melbourne tomorrow night.

Former Wallabies prop Rodney Blake will also play his first game for the Rebels, replacing Nic Henderson in the front row. Henderson is being rested.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Looking to the future:

Elsom boosts Brumbies hopes

BY CHRIS DUTTON, RUGBY UNION
24 Mar, 2011 08:30 AM

The ACT Brumbies are confident they can re-sign Wallabies captain Rocky Elsom if he chooses to re-commit to Australian rugby.
Elsom has opened negotiations with the ARU about extending his contract beyond the end of this year's World Cup. And should he opt to stay in Australia, Brumbies chief executive Andrew Fagan said Elsom had indicated he was keen to remain in Canberra.

The news is a major boost for the Brumbies as they brace for the possible departure of star back Adam Ashley-Cooper.

Ashley-Cooper has until March 31 to decide whether he will stay with the Brumbies or join the NSW Waratahs.

The deadline is just days after the Brumbies' blockbuster clash with the Waratahs at Canberra Stadium on Saturday night.

The 26-year-old signed a two-year deal with the ARU last month, but said he needed time to consider personal reasons before finalising his Super Rugby future.

In other contract developments:


France-based Fotu Auelua has officially signed a two-year deal with the Brumbies and ARU.

Rising flanker Colby Fainga'a is on the verge of re-signing with the Brumbies within the next two weeks.


The Brumbies will continue with player retention and recruitment plans despite not knowing who the head coach will be next year.
Elsom has not played this season as he battles a hamstring injury.

A return to the field is unlikely before the Brumbies' two-game trip to South Africa next month.

But while he has been unable to have an influence on the field, Fagan was confident Elsom would stay with the Brumbies next year.

''I think for him [Elsom] it's a matter of whether it's overseas or in Australia with the Brumbies,'' Fagan said.

''He's having discussions with the ARU at the moment. He's got some overseas clubs that are pursuing him as well, so he's just got to make that decision whether he wants to continue with the Wallabies.

''If he stays in Australia he has indicated he would like to stay with the Brumbies.''

Elsom said he wanted to finalise a deal with the ARU before discussing his Super Rugby future.

''The way it works is that I work out a deal with the ARU, and then I think about the rest,'' Elsom said.

Fagan said the Brumbies were still in the process of short listing at least 20 applicants for the head coach job vacated by Andy Friend, who was sacked after just two games this season.

Former South Africa and World Cup winning coach Jake White tops the list of candidates to replace Friend as the head coach.

With injured Mitchell Chapman announcing last week he will go to Japan next year, the Brumbies are keen to secure the off-contract players in their forward pack.

Elsom, Mark Chisholm and Peter Kimlin are all off contract while injured captain Stephen Hoiles has a get-out clause at the end of the season.

Fagan was confident uncertainty surrounding who would coach the Brumbies next year would not hinder player retention and recruitment.

''There are probably some players that might wish to delay their decision until they know who the head coach will be,'' Fagan said.

''But we won't be sitting back and waiting just because the head coach isn't here, we can't afford to do that.

''The [off-contract players] know the sort of guys we're talking to [about being head coach] and they're confident that out of that mix they'll have a head coach they'll be happy with.''

To boost the back-row talent, the Brumbies officially finalised a deal with powerful Toulon No8 Auelua.

Auelua who has been playing at Toulon with former Brumbies and Wallabies great George Smith is keen to return to Australia to attempt to break into the Wallabies squad.

Good to hear Fainga'a is going to re-sign as he was only on a one year contract and is the better of the 3 opensides...

The Brumbies need to make it a priority to hang onto Kimlin...

I don't see where Hoiles could fit in beyond this year?

For me he's already lost his spot to Vaea and the Brumbies have now signed another no. 8...
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Hoiles would fit in nicely in Japan.
Good news about Colby Fainga'a - I actually think he might be the best of the brothers.
Why play Speight? I would put Coleman on the wing rather than play Speight (and before someone tells me, I know he is a centre / fullback). Speight is like a slower version of Pakalani at his dropsiest.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Brumbies Team announced:

1 Ben Alexander
2 Huia Edmonds
3 Dan Palmer
4 Ben Hand
5 Mark Chisholm
6 Colby Fainga'a
7 Julian Salvi
8 Ita Vaea
9 Josh Valentine
10 Matt Giteau
11 Francis Fainifo
12 Christian Lealiifano
13 Andrew Smith
14 Henry Speight
15 Adam Ashley-Cooper

16 Anthony Hegarty
17 Salesi Ma'afu
18 Peter Kimlin
19 Michael Hooper
20 Patrick Phibbs
21 Matt To'omua
22 Robbie Coleman

Pat Mc Cabe ruled out with a hamstring injury

Funny, the perfect time for AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to run into a bit of form at 13 would be running past Cross.

Very happy not to see

10 Matt To'omua
11 Francis Fainifo
12 Matt Giteau
13 Adam Ashley-Cooper
14 Andrew Smith
15 Christian Lealiifano
 
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