Brumbies 2012

[tranquility]

I read Clarkie's prediction, and he doesn't believe the young guys in this Brumbies squad will listen to Jake...

Strange comment...

Very strange....

 

[Paddysboy]

Very strange....

I read that too and thought "what a load of bollocks". He was making the argument about lack of experience, youth and that the players like to play music before games, meaning Jake White wouldn't relate. It sounded pretty much like descriptions of the Reds at the start of the 2010 season. What has struck me about White is the holistic approach he is taking and the feeling that he is a good man manager. Anyone who has wandered past them at training reckons there's a pretty good vibe in the team.

 

[brumsfan]

Whilst stats are interesting, for breakdowns they only tell part of the story, they don't consider, how much game time played, how many penalties awarded due to pressure, how many penalties conceeded due to bad judgement and not knowing rules(Salvi last year), pressure on halfbacks and 5/8, who made initial tackle and so on.
I think it is very risky to play a guy who is a novice at really working the laws, however good on Vaea if he learns on the fly without costing us lots of points.

 

[mudskipper]

Unfortunately Clarkies preseason articles area often off the mark... I think he has a ghost writer... Because he never makes any sense... Last year most of those so called Wallabies were out injured and played no real part in the season... The fact that he doesn't think White has control of the playing group is a joke... Is that teh best he's got?

 

[Lee Grant]

I find the discussed backrow of 6. Kimlin, 7. Vaea and 8. Mowen intriguing.

Even SAffer Super teams have employed more on-ballers playing 7 in the last couple of years and some of the rugby pundits in England pointed to the lack of a specialist 7 as one of the reasons why they didn't do better in the RWC.

Lancaster, the new England coach, picked notters to play in the backrow for 6N. Chief notter was skipper Robshaw who was asked to play with the 7 shirt. It was a troubled selection because he was slow getting to the breakdown. He's a good footie player and a top leader but showed he had no instinct for lines of run or timing. This was not surprising because he seldom played 7 for his club. To be fair there was not a lot of experienced fetchers to pick from.

How will Vaea go notting with the 7 jersey? He will have to do bloody well to compensate for the absence of Hooper, who is a natural fetcher and linker. Vaea himself will be missed at 8, for Mowen is a different player who can play perfectly well at 6, but doesn't run over folks like Vaea can.

But Jake White has won a RWC and I haven't. Let's see.
.

 

[JJJ]

According to the Brumbies stats Vaea (119kg) has 22kg on Hooper (97kg), as well as 5cm for what that's worth. Not hard to see how that would appeal to White. I'd expect him going by his Springbok selections to favour a pack who could win collisions and dominate lineouts. The latter possibly being why he'd want Kimlin in the backrow with Mowen to provide more options, leaving 7 as a shootout between Hooper the fetcher and Vaea the collision-winner.

Wasn't Mowen the lineout caller for the Tahs at some stage? It'll be interesting to see how the Brumbies' lineout goes this season.

 

[Blue]

Reminder about Jake White on fetchers when he was bok coach:

"The only fetcher I need is my son when he fetches me another beer from the fridge," and
"Everyone is a fetcher in the modern game."

Having said that he did bactrack later on when he tried to convert Joe van Nikerk into a 7 (epic fail) and then he effectively used Burger as an out and out fetcher (pre neck-op he was doing great, post his neck op not so much). Wikus v heerden played as an out and out fetcher under White. (He had Heyneke Meyer to thank for that who converted Wikus into a Super Rugby winning 7 with great effect.)

So I would be surprised with the game having moved on as it has, if White does not actually use an openside. Having said that he may look at specific game anf prefer three big kahunas running at people.

Anyway it will be intersting to watch this one unfold! Can't wait!

Now get me another beer son!

(PS people should not get their childeren to carry beer for them but that's another discussion ).

 

[Newter]

Reminder about Jake White on fetchers when he was bok coach:

"The only fetcher I need is my son when he fetches me another beer from the fridge," and
"Everyone is a fetcher in the modern game."

Having said that he did bactrack later on when he tried to convert Joe van Nikerk into a 7 (epic fail) and then he effectively used Burger as an out and out fetcher (pre neck-op he was doing great, post his neck op not so much). Wikus v heerden played as an out and out fetcher under White. (He had Heyneke Meyer to thank for that who converted Wikus into a Super Rugby winning 7 with great effect.)

So I would be surprised with the game having moved on as it has, if White does not actually use an openside. Having said that he may look at specific game anf prefer three big kahunas running at people.

Anyway it will be intersting to watch this one unfold! Can't wait!

Now get me another beer son!

(PS people should not get their childeren to carry beer for them but that's another discussion ).

Schalk was an out and out fetcher under Jake White? That's news to me. For mine his main role was to clobber people in defence and with the ball, and that's about it. He was just targeted aggression.

If his turnover rate ever got near your average Super rugby openside I'd be very surprised.

 

[Newter]

Whilst stats are interesting, for breakdowns they only tell part of the story, they don't consider, how much game time played, how many penalties awarded due to pressure, how many penalties conceeded due to bad judgement and not knowing rules(Salvi last year), pressure on halfbacks and 5/8, who made initial tackle and so on.
I think it is very risky to play a guy who is a novice at really working the laws, however good on Vaea if he learns on the fly without costing us lots of points.

Vaea isn't going to learn on the fly. He's not an openside flanker, Jake White doesn't pick them.

The point of a fetcher is to steal the ball and regain possession, but IIRC Jake White's strategy at the Springboks was always to give the ball back and win games through defence. Vaea will be there to tackle and dominate collisions, not be first to the rucks.

 

[Gnostic]

I find the discussed backrow of 6. Kimlin, 7. Vaea and 8. Mowen intriguing.

Even SAffer Super teams have employed more on-ballers playing 7 in the last couple of years and some of the rugby pundits in England pointed to the lack of a specialist 7 as one of the reasons why they didn't do better in the RWC.

Lancaster, the new England coach, picked notters to play in the backrow for 6N. Chief notter was skipper Robshaw who was asked to play with the 7 shirt. It was a troubled selection because he was slow getting to the breakdown. He's a good footie player and a top leader but showed he had no instinct for lines of run or timing. This was not surprising because he seldom played 7 for his club. To be fair there was not a lot of experienced fetchers to pick from.

How will Vaea go notting with the 7 jersey? He will have to do bloody well to compensate for the absence of Hooper, who is a natural fetcher and linker. Vaea himself will be missed at 8, for Mowen is a different player who can play perfectly well at 6, but doesn't run over folks like Vaea can.

But Jake White has won a RWC and I haven't. Let's see.
.

There are very few true fetchers, quite a few breakdown pests and then the effective dominant 7s like obrien and Warburton. Perhaps this is what White is after.

As for the Poms blaming the lack of a 7 for their poor showing, what crap. Their whole game was largely poor.

 

[Ruggo]

The Reds had issues at the beginning of last year having Quirk improvise at 7 remember. The Brumbies may suffer the same fate. Fainga'a and Hooper are amaizing young talents and I hope they see the sense to include one. Noodles would be better used at lock anyway.

 

[Blue]

Schalk was an out and out fetcher under Jake White? That's news to me. For mine his main role was to clobber people in defence and with the ball, and that's about it. He was just targeted aggression.

If his turnover rate ever got near your average Super rugby openside I'd be very surprised.

Prior to his neck operation his turnover rate was right up there. He played openside and Juan Smit or AJ Venter player blindside. Then he fucked up hisnech and was advised to nit take hits in the back of the neck any longer.

He was very effective and part of the reason we won the 3N that year.

Having said that, his game was prob more of a hybrid but for a period he was the guy going for the ball.

 

[Blue]

There are very few true fetchers, quite a few breakdown pests and then the effective dominant 7s like obrien and Warburton. Perhaps this is what White is after.

As for the Poms blaming the lack of a 7 for their poor showing, what crap. Their whole game was largely poor.

The English back row has three guys who do more or less the same thing.

 

[Forcefield]

The Tahs should be wetting themselves. Come the end of the season Hooper will be soooo pissed off that he hasn't got any game time he'll be ripe for picking for the Tahs.

Jake White is the Steven Bradbury of the rugby world.

 

[Lee Grant]

The English back row has three guys who do more or less the same thing.

They are all really 6s and Croft is a true international class 6. Both Robshaw at 7 and Dowson at 8 could get away with playing those positions for their club but they were found out in 6N. They have won two games out of two but I don't think they will thrive for long with notters at 7 and 8.

Moody was not really a true 7 either - England haven't had a true fetcher play a few games since Lipman. I thought a year ago that the activities of the specialist 7 had been compromised by the law crackdown, especially the enforcement of the release law. The crackdown made fetching risky and gave a premium to counter-rucking.

I am not so sure now. The effect of the departure of Brussouw from the Quarter Final game and the effect of Pocock in most games he plays in, makes one pause. Despite weather and ground conditions which don't favour a fetching game, a great fetcher may arise in Europe one of these days (SOB's best position is 6) and rugby fashion could change.


PS - As for Schalk Burger: he was not one of them either, even for an episode or two. The Boks didn't have a fetcher of note between Krige and Brussouw.

 

[qwerty51]

I think they're just waiting until Andy Saull is ready for international rugby, he's a high quality fetcher.

Also it will be interesting to see what happens when Tom Wood is fit with Robshaw named captain he might shift back to 6 with Wood at 7. Their backrow should be more balanced with Ben Morgan at 8, he's definitely more of an 8 than Dowson.

 

[Lee Grant]

Good post - I've mentioned Morgan before as the long time England no.8; so I would throw him in at the deep end now, Agree about Saull - for one of these days - and Kvesic is one for the longer term.

Wood doesn't change the notter equation much: he plays 7 like Moody did.

As for your Rubik cube of moving folks around: I doubt if Croft will be demoted; so Wood will have to ride the pine so that Robshaw can start.

I mentioned these things in the England squad post yonks ago.

This is the Brumbies thread? You have digressed qwerty.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

This is the Brumbies thread? You have digressed qwerty.

Where's bigtoughguy when you need him?

 

[Bruce Ross]

This is the Brumbies thread? You have digressed qwerty.

I presume your admonition to qwerty is somewhat tongue in cheek, LG. Just scanning posts above the chain of digression appears to be:

Gnostic - Blue - LG - qwerty - LG​

 

[Brumby Jack]

So the Brumbies team to play the Force will be announced about lunch time.

There might even be the odd surprise selection in there.