Bledisloe 2 - Wallabies vs All Blacks, Wellington, 27 August 2016

[ShtinaTina]

Whilst there are many calling for Moore to be dropped from the starting XV, I have difficulty seeing Cheika doing it.

In my opinion Moore hasn't been in good form since before the RWC.
It seemed like TPN was coming on earlier each match.

For Cheika to drop Moore as #2 but also as Captain, is ballsy even for him.
Though stranger things have happened.

As far as the line out issues perceived with TPN, has he not been more consistent in the past 2-3years?
2014 he was pretty consistent if my memory serves me correctly. He was very solid in the French series.

I would be interested to see his stats & if there is an overall trend at all.

Unfortunately people tend to remember the poorer times than the good ones.

I suppose in the end, what would the harm be in swapping TPN over, he's been solid around the park and at scrum time this year at the Waratahs & was part of the stabilising of the scrum against England.

I'm not sure if there's many others here that would be as excited as me to see TPN in the #2 jersey. Yes I'm a little bias, but really it couldn't hurt swapping it up.

Last weekends game was odd on all fronts, there wasn't rhyme or reason or sense for that performance considering they've been as a team for at least 4 weeks.
Maybe as it's been suggested they were exhausted & hesitant to make mistakes. Which is odd considering Cheika spent all his time at the Tahs saying he'd much prefer them to push it, try something, if it didn't work but they had intent he was happy....where has this gone?

 

[emuarse]

Match officials:

Ref: Poite
AR's: Peyper & Anselmi
TMO: Veldsman

It just keeps getting worse for the Wallabies

 

[HoldingOn]

 

[Joe Blow]

We had better be on our game at scrum time from the start.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Must have been subconscious to leave Foley out. Ha!

Thought you were suggesting that the Wallabies would go better without any No 10, given the options we have for the spot.

 

[Brumby Runner]

It just keeps getting worse for the Wallabies

Yeah - we keep getting done over with player and official selections. Poite just doesn't like the way our scrum works. It could well be a succession of scrum penalties to the ABs irrespective of who plays in our front row, and a YC is almost certain at some critical stage of the game.

 

[Viking]

Talk out of FoxSports News - Cheika will have no hesitation starting Cooper at 12.

He's really lost the plot if that happens.

 

[Braveheart81]

Talk out of FoxSports News - Cheika will have no hesitation starting Cooper at 12.

He's really lost the plot if that happens.

Given that three of the 12 options are all injured it isn't really that crazy.

Kerevi is probably the lowest risk option but doesn't offer the dual playmaker he's potentially after.

Cooper offers the best playmaking option.

Hodge offers the best mix of those but also the least experience.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Talk out of FoxSports News - Cheika will have no hesitation starting Cooper at 12.

He's really lost the plot if that happens.

Very short odds on it happening imo. Quade is the last playmaker standing to put into the 12 spot and that is Cheika's preferred team makeup.

My tip is that it won't work because Foley just doesn't have the goods to play 10 and manage a backline. Quade will be under as much pressure as all 12s have been and I predict there will quite a bit of dropped ball/passes gone astray at the 12 spot in this game.

Also, can you imagine for a moment BB running at a 10/12 combination of Foley and Quade? Obviously, if he plays them there as expected, Cheika can't. But I predict quite a few line breaks by BB and a possible YC to Quade for a high tackle.

The only answer atm is to play Quade at 10 and Kerevi at 12 imo. Foley is an option for 15 if he needs to be retained, but just get him out of the 10 spot now.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I reckon Cheka will go with these Starters
1. Sio - should be slipper by a mile
2. Moore (C) - should be dropped and as captain as well
3. Keps - still down on form but who else
4. Douglas
5. Coleman - Simmons deserves to be dropped
6. Fardy - got the wake up call last week
7. Hooper - should be Pocock
8. Pocock - Mccalman screwed his opportunity last week
9. Genia - went OK last week
10 COOPER - Foley just no up to this level ATM
11. DHP - should be dropped and Mitchell have a shot
12 FOLEY - last man standing at 12 with Gits and Matty both out
13. Kerevi - deserves his shot - TK has been terrible and for quite a while
14.Two Dads
15. Who Else

Finishers is a good name when the game is winnable or being won.
ATM the poor buggers should be called Canon Fodder

 

[Froggy]

I think a bit of the criticism of Foley is over the top. His kicking game is awful, see my earlier post, not up to test standard and he wouldn't be in my starting team. Having said that, he defended extremely well last week, made some effective runs with the ball, and how he could organize a backline with a forward pack going backwards, a revolving door of players at 12 and a 13 who couldn't catch the football I don't know.

As I said previously, my preference is the high risk (hopefully high reward) one of Cooper at 10, Hodge at 12 and Kerevi at 13, although I highly doubt it would happen. Cooper worries me, his last few outings were not spectacular, and if he gets another yellow for a high tackle he should be on the 'never again' list, but somewhere within him is a great talent, his best is outstanding, unfortunately we so rarely see it.

I don't get the idea that Moore and Simmons have to remain for the lineout. Moore's throwing has been worse than TPN's of late, and Simmons? It's hard to imagine a combination without them could produce a worse lineout than last week!

 

[Scrubber2050]

I think a bit of the criticism of Foley is over the top. His kicking game is awful, see my earlier post, not up to test standard and he wouldn't be in my starting team. Having said that, he defended extremely well last week, made some effective runs with the ball, and how he could organize a backline with a forward pack going backwards, a revolving door of players at 12 and a 13 who couldn't catch the football I don't know.

As I said previously, my preference is the high risk (hopefully high reward) one of Cooper at 10, Hodge at 12 and Kerevi at 13, although I highly doubt it would happen. Cooper worries me, his last few outings were not spectacular, and if he gets another yellow for a high tackle he should be on the 'never again' list, but somewhere within him is a great talent, his best is outstanding, unfortunately we so rarely see it.

I don't get the idea that Moore and Simmons have to remain for the lineout. Moore's throwing has been worse than TPN's of late, and Simmons? It's hard to imagine a combination without them could produce a worse lineout than last week!

Frog
Agree absolutely with your last 2 paragraphs

First one is a bit hard to swallow and we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point

 

[Joe Blow]

Cheika would be nuts to risk Quade at 12. It's highly unlikely that we will win this test but he needs a performance that will give heart to his side and the fans. Kerevi is the most likely and Quade should be played at 10 or off the bench at 10. Hopefully Hodge gets some time at 12 this week and with To'omua back for the next test Cheika will again have some options.

 

[The torpedo]

View attachment 8357

We also need a petition for Wayne Barnes to ref every Wallabies vs ABs match forever

 

[Viking]

Given that three of the 12 options are all injured it isn't really that crazy.

Kerevi is probably the lowest risk option but doesn't offer the dual playmaker he's potentially after.

Cooper offers the best playmaking option.

Hodge offers the best mix of those but also the least experience.

Surely you'd put Foley in 12 before Cooper though.

 

[Viking]

I think a bit of the criticism of Foley is over the top. His kicking game is awful, see my earlier post, not up to test standard and he wouldn't be in my starting team. Having said that, he defended extremely well last week, made some effective runs with the ball, and how he could organize a backline with a forward pack going backwards, a revolving door of players at 12 and a 13 who couldn't catch the football I don't know.

That's the issue though isn't it, he has a few good runs because his first instinct is to run instead of setting up the back-line.

This isn't just based on last night either, refer to the entire England series, last years RC, EOYT 2014.

Unfortunately it's seems RWC15 was the exception not the norm. And it probably had something to do with Beale being there.

He is a great solo runner, great support runner - but 10 should never have been his position IMO.

 

[Dan54]

Bad caption-writing as far as I can tell, can't find an actual quote where anyone says he won't start, but a couple where Foster (?) rules him out as a midfield option. So:

9. ASmith
10. Barrett
11. JSavea
12. Fekitoa
13. Tamanivalu
14. BSmith
15. Dagg

21. Perenara
22. Cruden
23. Ioane or Lienert-Brown

Arguably the weakest & certainly the least-experienced backline we've fielded in a very long time.

Well WOB, I would love it if they have even more inexperience and run Lienert-Brown at 12, not sure I too keen on Fekitoa at 12, much better at 13

 

[Braveheart81]

Having all the injury dramas at 12 makes things more difficult for Cheika in regards to Foley and Cooper because it opens up the potential for both to be picked in the XV.

Cheika's issue is that if he brings in Cooper at 10 now and he doesn't go well (in an away game against the All Blacks which is very difficult), does he then go back to Foley straight away?

I think he'll give Foley another crack to improve things and then give Cooper a run of at least a couple of games after that if he doesn't.

 

[Joe King]

In reference to idiot savant's insightful question on Sully’s article, I don't think wholesale changes will be good for a bunch of newbies, since it is likely to leave a bunch of mental scars if the newbies get well-beaten. Clearly change is needed, but it should be more gradual. However, if there is another flogging, then there should be wholesale changes. But knowing that the current team will lift this week (due to the loss, and since they were probably a bit flat, having not played for a month), I think I lean towards gradual change, but change nevertheless.

With everyone suggesting a team, I'd actually like to suggest a team for the final 30 minutes - a crucial part of the game, but also allows for change without wholesale change to start.

I think some players play best when coming off the bench, while some players don’t play well for 80 minutes. I would have the following players come off the bench for the final 30 minutes: Hooper for Pocock, Cooper for Foley, Mumm for Simmons, Phipps for Genia, possibly Reece Hodge for Samu Kerevi at 12, and Tatafu Polota-Nau for Moore.

Also for the final 30 minutes, I'd move Folau to 13 and bring Tevita Kuridrani off, or move Tevita Kuridrani to 12.

Tevita Kuridrani at 12 is Bob Dwyer's suggestion. It would be nice if Kuridrani could learn to offload, but even if he can't, he could play the traditional 'get the ball over the advantage line' and they could cut him out for backline moves, or do backline moves on 2nd phase after he has carried the ball over the advantage line. Kuridrani still has some value, but I think it’s in closer in than out wider.

I think Folau at 13 is his future position. He plays his Super Rugby there now. And he's happy there. With that, I'd move Haylett-Petty to 15, which is probably his future position.

So this is the team for the final 30 minutes with the players they would replace having played for the first 50 minutes.

1. James Slipper

2. Tatafu Polota-Nau (for Moore)

3. Sekope Kepu

4. Kane Douglas

5. Dean Mumm (for Rob Simmons)

6. Scott Fardy

7. Hooper (for Pocock)

8. Lopetti Timani

9. Phipps (for Genia)

10. Quade Cooper (for Foley)

11. Adam Ashley-Cooper

12. Samu Kerevi (no change or possibly Reece Hodge or Tevita Kuridrani)

13. Israel Folau (for Tevita Kuridrani)

14. Henry Speight (with Haylett-Petty to 15)


15. Dane Haylett-Petty (with Folau to 13)

 

[Viking]

In reference to idiot savant's insightful question on Sully’s article, I don't think wholesale changes will be good for a bunch of newbies, since it is likely to leave a bunch of mental scars if the newbies get well-beaten. Clearly change is needed, but it should be more gradual.

This only applies to Hodge, Timani, Colman, and Allatoa and maybe Kerevi.

You could argue swapping anyone else won't have this effect as they are all experienced Test players.

Therefore I wouldn't exactly call "wholesale changes" to the following:

Moore for TPN - although a big call
Mumm for Simmons
Slipper for Sio
Fardy to McCalman
Cooper for Foley - although another big call
Mitchell for DHP or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

They are simply changes that straight swap an experienced test player with another one.