Bledisloe 1 - Wallabies vs All Blacks, ANZ Stadium, Sydney, 8:05pm
- Thread starter The torpedo
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Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
He can, and he has been used at both provincial and Test level, and with good effect, but hardly at all. For reasons none of us know, since none of us make these calls, he is not used much to do this. I'm guessing because coaches think he is better utilised otherwise. I have little doubt he could be used at 2 very effectively, given his sheer size, but it doesn't happen.
It seems intuitive that it would make little sense to start him at lock with Hooper and Pocock on, but he could be accommodated with a Kieran Read style 8 probably quite easily if the 6 was a good lineout option.
I suspect Cheika starts with 7 and 8 and works forward, in a way, front row aside.
Personally I wouldn't start him, but no-one's ever mistaken me for a rugby coach, professionally or otherwise!
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
So none of these ones then......
I don't see Lienert-Brown being chucked in so I'm thinking:
9 A Smith
10 Cruden (& covering 12)
11 Savea
12 Crotty
13 Fekitoa
14 B Smith (& covering 13)
15 Dagg
21 Perenara
22 Naholo
23 Barrett
On a brighter note Cane has gotten through two full sessions so must be a chance for at least the 20 jersey.
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
Been given too many chances and form with Tahs this year not shown any reason why he deserves his umpteenth chance
dru
David Wilson (68)
He can, and he has been used at both provincial and Test level, and with good effect, but hardly at all. For reasons none of us know, since none of us make these calls, he is not used much to do this. I'm guessing because coaches think he is better utilised otherwise. I have little doubt he could be used at 2 very effectively, given his sheer size, but it doesn't happen.
It seems intuitive that it would make little sense to start him at lock with Hooper and Pocock on, but he could be accommodated with a Kieran Read style 8 probably quite easily if the 6 was a good lineout option.
I suspect Cheika starts with 7 and 8 and works forward, in a way, front row aside.
Personally I wouldn't start him, but no-one's ever mistaken me for a rugby coach, professionally or otherwise!
Bloke, honest.
Skelton is like a long distance bomber. When it comes to getting off the ground EVERYONE knows about it. I'm not going to argue with you about how high he jumps (imo not much) but it doesnt matter. The opposition knows whatever he does.
Whatever, the limitation in our LO is just huge. As is his (lack of) speed across the ground.
What the thinking rugby follower wants from this down side is:
a) maul destroyer (tick)
b) defense attractor (dubious)
c) hard hit ups (no)
d) excellent driving up in theattack from the difficult side of the field (nup)
e) bonus soft hands (yes but fails to use it)
In the mean time, we have to deal with:
1) at best an adequate scrum ability. At best
2) LO that requires changes in probably two selections.
3) complete lack of dynanism on the field.
It doesnt stack well, but if he gets his shit together, and we counter his downside ... Wtf it just isnt happening.
The torpedo
Peter Fenwicke (45)
I wasn't suggesting he be used as a lineout option, I was stating that he has been. As I said, I wouldn't pick him. He CAN'T jump is like the peanuts stating Player "X" CAN'T kick - it is arrant nonsense. He can, but he doesn't much, so it remains a weakness. It's a failing that he hasn't been developed better in this regard by coaches. Much like the kicking of several players who can kick quite well at times, but are not coached to do it enough and consistently. It's not for complete inability. I find it frustrating. Try reading what I wrote.
tragic
John Solomon (38)
Can't agree with you there cyclo
Kicking is a technical skill that can be taught - there will be some better than others but practice and dedication make a big difference
The big fella is 140kg of pure slow twitch - he might gain a few cm in static jump height with training but he's never going to be a dynamic jumper and will always be a lineout liability when played with a short 7/8 combination. And he's bloody heavy to lift.
He'd be better off using his height and strength to launch one of the shorter dynamic loosies into the stratosphere.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
The question with Skelton (and frankly any player) will always be: do the benefits outweigh the costs? At present I don't believe they do, especially against an athletic, skilful and generally hard All Black pairing. He won't damage them enough in contact to make up for his shortcomings in the set piece for mine.
Oh God, can anyone actually read what I wrote rather than going with the vibe. I case you missed it.........
Umm, I think I was kind of implying kicking could be much better, i.e taught, but that some players can do it well at times, just not enough.
Vis a vis...........
And.........
i.e. , and in case what I wrote was obtuse, don't make him one of the 3 main jumpers, make him the occasional 4th. Anyway, if people want to just froth at stuff, have at it.
I'm out.
tragic
John Solomon (38)
I did not say you are advocating selecting Skelton as a jumper cyclo.
Rather than casting aspersions at others comprehension perhaps you should work on your own. Let me make it a bit simpler for you.
I agreed with your statement Player X can't kick is nonsense - it can be taught to an extent
I disagreed with your statement Player X can't jump is nonsense - it is far more an innate ability and aligned with ones muscle physiology - it is not as easily modified with training. Some monoliths are genetically destined not to leave the ground. So imo Skelton will never be a decent occasional lineout option. Especially when we don't have a Read style 8.
But feel free to continue with your condescension if it makes you feel better.
Sorry, when you write "Can't agree with you there" the last thing I suspected was that you were then going to write a post agreeing with me. Can't imagine why.
Skelton has jumped and caught lineout ball. At 2, being 202cm he doesn't need to jump a lot if he's the 4th option. Which we don't have, as we don't have a Read option (obviously), which was my point. So I wouldn't pick him!
But feel free to continue with your misapprehension if it makes you feel better.
Gillys_ghost
Dave Cowper (27)
I didnt know where to post it, but just wanna say what a great podcast it was this week (as it always is)
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
Sure - that's what I meant by "he hasn't delivered on his attacking promise". I wouldn't be picking him for the Wobs until he does. It won't take much. He only has to learn to use his size and speed better, i.e. start to smash people in addition to bending the line.
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
Match officials confirmed:
Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant Referees: Romain Poite (France), Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)
Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant Referees: Romain Poite (France), Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)
T
TOCC
Guest
I think it needs a bit of perspective, when people say a player can't pass, he can't tackle, he can't jump it's comparison to their peers, that is they are held accountable to the standard of players in their team and who they are playing against.
So a comment like 'Skelton can't jump', is more implied that he can't jump as well as the other locks in the team or the opposition locks. He obviously has the physical ability to jump, but given his size, his muscular make up and general athleticism he can't jump as high as other locks, he isn't as fast as others to jump and his weight makes him more of an issue to lift. All of these things are also attributes In other parts of his game, so it's not necessarily an attack against him, rather recognising where his pros and cons lie.
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