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Beyond Belief

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PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
This sure is unheard of. Cant believe reading this and you get most punters here blaming the coach for their loss. Vokket it will be a sad sad day in SA Rugby history if the same thing happen here. If I coach the Wallabies I'll either pack up and pull out or fire all those players.

Deans should have done this the day he took over, if I remember correct he havent much time tho.
 

Biffo

Ken Catchpole (46)
Agree PB. Imagine the world of commerce and industry if we all demanded payment to go to a job interview.

You have it in a nutshell. Players responsible should go now. Replacing the coach would achieve nothing - the players would simply do it again whenever they felt like it.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
If I go back to the good old days of Springbok rugby, they had a WEEK trials when a big tour is coming up. They'd pick the best two teams to play a final trial match and those matches was unbelievable hard and tough. Provincial team mates would bliksem each other just to get their name in that team and a lot of legends would either been born or die in those matches. The last time we had this was in Strauli's day and I remember Brett Russell, our pocket rocket was found in that one.

Honestly I cant find anything wrong in Deans thinking to do this at this very moment with the Wallabies. They need some harden the fuck up and have no CC or NPC to get that before going on tour.

Sad and I have all sympathy for the coach in this disgrace.
 

Biffo

Ken Catchpole (46)
Red Beard said:
From an outsiders perspective your code is in serious shit if your own players can dictate whether or not they will be playing in a trial designed to assess their own individual operformances! Im not sure how much AB trialists are paid (I will find out though and let you know) but Ive never heard of a top NZ player refusing to play. Henry held a trial when he took over in 2004 and a young bloke called Carl Hayman played his way back into the test squad based on that performance.

RB, do your players have a union?
 

disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
What a pack of overpaid pussies, how come when the AB's had a possible v probables trial back in 2005 before the Lions series it just happens no drama what so ever.

Our lot of skirts want money it just show's what they're all about & that's money. I say have the match & those that don't make themselves available don't tour.

I bet Phil Waugh & Ryan Cross will wanna play coz I'm sure they are sick of training all the time.

O'neil & Deans should just go ahead & play & if RUPA wanna strike then so be it go ahead & pick club players & super 14 players who don't have a current ARU contract.
 

Biffo

Ken Catchpole (46)
disco said:
What a pack of overpaid pussies, how come when the AB's had a possible v probables trial back in 2005 before the Lions series it just happens no drama what so ever.

Our lot of skirts want money it just show's what they're all about & that's money. I say have the match & those that don't make themselves available don't tour.

I bet Phil Waugh & Ryan Cross will wanna play coz I'm sure they are sick of training all the time.

O'neil & Deans should just go ahead & play & if RUPA wanna strike then so be it go ahead & pick club players & super 14 players who don't have a current ARU contract.

Absolutely.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Here's RUPAs version of events.
The RUPA response to "Wallabies sink tour trial for $2,500" SMH Article:

The RUPA responds to the inaccurate nature of the article published today by the Sydney Morning Herald entitled "Wallabies sink tour trial for $2,500". In that article it is claimed that a proposed Possible- Probable's [selection trial] match was postponed because of extraordinary pay demands from the Wallabies players.

The facts in this matter are as follows:

1. In or about August 2008 the ARU gave the rights to the NSWRU to host an Australia A match at the SFS;

2. In reliance on this the NSWRU sold from September 2008 as part of their membership package for 2009 an Australia A game;

3. In or about December 2008 the ARU withdrew from the Pacific Six nation tournament thus preventing the NSWRU from hosting the A game they had sold to members as part of their membership package;

4. In May 2009 the ARU first approached the RUPA to seek the player's view on match fee for a game at the SFS to prepare the players for the game against the All Blacks scheduled to take place three weeks in Tokyo and to use it for selection of some younger fringe players for the upcoming European tour;

5. Discussions between the RUPA and the ARU then proceeded on details surrounding the match. From those discussions it emerged the match would be billed as the Wallabies V Australian Barbarians played at the SFS on a Sunday afternoon so that the NSWRU could honour its commitments to its members who has purchased the membership packages with an Australia A fixture included;

6. Discussions also took place directly between the Wallaby player group and the ARU senior management in June and July over the subject;

7. In August the RUPA, on behalf of the Wallaby group, conveyed to the ARU that if the game proposed was to be played at the SFS to ensure the NSWRU fulfilled its obligations to its members and therefore generate revenue then it was only reasonable the players be paid the usual fee for a similar Australia A type match - $2,500. If on the other hand the purpose of the match was solely to be used in preparation for the All Blacks match and for fringe selection purposes then the Wallabies would of course be happy to play the game at a local suburban park without request for a match fee;

8. In August 2009 the ARU responded to the RUPA suggestion by advising the game was not now proceeding in the format proposed but instead that the players' preparation for the end of season tour would be altered to prepare them for the Tour in a different way;

9. The NSWRU has reimbursed its members for the Australia A game cancelled by the ARU last December.

The Sydney Morning Herald's article is factually incorrect in a number of ways:

1. The match under discussion wasn't simply about playing a trial - but about providing a substitute match for the NSWRU after the ARU cancelled their Australia A game last December;

2. The RUPA didn't demand a payment of $2,500 but suggested a fee of $2,500 in response to a question by the ARU as to whether the players expected a fee;

3. After suggesting the fee the ARU decided to scrap the game without further discussion;

4. The ARU did not in recent days cancel the proposed Wallaby V Australian Barbarian match. It was called off in August;

5. The only venue proposed by the ARU to the RUPA was the SFS - not North Sydney Oval.

Tony Dempsey Chief Executive Officer of the RUPA said:

"It is easy for someone to suggest there are cracks within the player framework. Worse still it is easy to infer the players are money focused. A more challenging, difficult and yet constructive task is to provide positive solutions to the Wallabies recent lack of form against the All Blacks.

It is not clear what source the SHM relies upon when writing an article of this nature. Equally puzzling is why clarity was not sought about the issue from the RUPA before publishing it.

The Wallaby players' themselves are generous both with their time and money when it comes to supporting charitable causes. Examples this year include donation of their first round Super match fees to the Victorian Bushfire Appeal and participation and support of numerous charities including but not limited to Cystic Fibrosis Australia, Starlight Foundation - various appearances, Blue September, Arthritis Australia - kids camps, Mission Australia - various programs, The Smith Family - various programs, The eMerge Foundation, Ovarian Cancer Australia, RSPCA, Cook Islands donation of books, Ronald McDonald House - various appearances, Xtrata Charity Rugby Day, Camp Quality - various, ActewAGL Country Visits, Red Cross Blood Donation, Cerebal Palsy, Breast Cancer - various, Movember, Pyjama Foundation, Red Kite, St Vincent de Paul - Youthreach/Matt Talbot, Retina Australia Foundation, It's Time Foundation, Patch (Canberra Hospital), Red Frogs, The Why Genera tion, POW Sydney Hospital, Humpty Dumpty Foundation, This is Oz run by Acan - anti discrimination, Eightytwenty Vision, Wallabies Rewards program - Values in Sport Forum & Junior clubs, National Aboriginal Sports Corporate Australia (NASCA), Prostate Cancer Foundation of Australia, Rugby CONNECT - womens rugby, disabled, indigenous and Culturally & Linguistically Diverse populations.

The players also spend numerous hours volunteering their time to help out at grass roots rugby functions and events.

In addition to assist Australian Rugby with the downturn in the general economy Wallaby players agreed earlier this year to take a Test match pay cut. Further, players from the Waratahs and Reds (including Wallabies from these two states) have agreed to forgo one week's leave without pay.

It is not the first time and dare we say the last that during a Wallaby form slump that it is suggested the players are either overpaid or money hungry. The reality is players are just as committed as ever in representing their country and take great pride in representing their country.

What is needed now in Australian rugby is a galvanizing of support for the Wallabies as they prepare for the November tour - not misinformed ill advised rhetoric about the attitude of players to money."
 
R

Red Beard

Guest
Biffo said:
Red Beard said:
From an outsiders perspective your code is in serious shit if your own players can dictate whether or not they will be playing in a trial designed to assess their own individual operformances! Im not sure how much AB trialists are paid (I will find out though and let you know) but Ive never heard of a top NZ player refusing to play. Henry held a trial when he took over in 2004 and a young bloke called Carl Hayman played his way back into the test squad based on that performance.

RB, do your players have a union?
Yeah mate they have some sort of Players Collective or Association headed by a bloke called Rob Nichol. Some senior ABs, guys with a few smarts like Conrad Smith are spokesmen for it as well.
 

Biffo

Ken Catchpole (46)
So, Mr Dempsey believes we should all support the players for the crap they delivered in 5 of their 6 games in the 3N?

I wonder if Mr Dempsey would like to give an opinion on the team's performances, especially last Saturday's capitulation? Could we have, perhaps, an admission that the players were responsible for not turning up, but were quite able to collect their full whacks?

Mr Dempsey, your Wallaby members owe us far more than one freebee. :angryfire:
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
fatprop said:
So this whole thing is a beat up, surprise surprise

The most successful fishing expedition this site has ever seen. Imagine falling for something written by Growden. :nta:
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Biffo said:
Agree PB. Imagine the world of commerce and industry if we all demanded payment to go to a job interview.

You have it in a nutshell. Players responsible should go now. Replacing the coach would achieve nothing - the players would simply do it again whenever they felt like it.

Two points here:

1. Realistically it isn't a job interview for the vast majority of players, with likely only a couple of spots up for grabs based on this game.

2. Could you imagine the world of commerce and industry if we all demanded our staff to work for free on a commercial venture?
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Scotty said:
Biffo said:
Agree PB. Imagine the world of commerce and industry if we all demanded payment to go to a job interview.

You have it in a nutshell. Players responsible should go now. Replacing the coach would achieve nothing - the players would simply do it again whenever they felt like it.

Two points here:

1. Realistically it isn't a job interview for the vast majority of players, with likely only a couple of spots up for grabs based on this game.

2. Could you imagine the world of commerce and industry if we all demanded our staff to work for free on a commercial venture?

But they have contracts. They are being paid.

This is merely a case of saying let's see who of you guys who are being paid a lot of money already really want to be here.

Like I said, this is all just adding to a game that is headed fro crisis and everyone seems intent on takign out their spades and digging the hole faster.

Meanwhile the other codes are merrily getting excited about finals, pulling fansa into a positive experience and rugby looks like a grovelling bunch of idiots.

Like a league obsessed union-bagging mate of mine said to me last night - "the Wallabies are losers and are even scared to prove they can still play."
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
I think the analogy is more like your boss asking you to work overtime to help fix up a mistake you made. Hard to justify extra pay in those conditions. Nevertheless ONeil's timing on this is beautiful.
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
mark_s said:
I think the analogy is more like your boss asking you to work overtime to help fix up a mistake you made. Hard to justify extra pay in those conditions. Nevertheless ONeil's timing on this is beautiful.
Almost I guess but didn't the ARU and the NSWRU make the mistake? But it is not correct to say that people in the corporate world don't do work for nothing it happens everyday.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
The mistake I was referring to is the poor performance on the field this year. I realise now you can interpret my statement another way, the players being asked to pick up the tab for the ARU's cancelling of the Aus A program.

I guess it comes down to whether this is truly a trial or whether its just to help NSWRU out or both. Frankly, I have little sympathy for the players at the moment which ever it is. They need to prove to me that playing for Aus is mroe important than anything else.
 
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