Beyond Belief

[Biffo]

Now the clowns masquerading as the Australian national rugby team want to be paid to go for a job interview. : From rugbyheaven.com.au:

"A PROPOSED Possible-Probables match, which was to act as the final selection trial for the end of season grand slam tour, has been called off because of extraordinary pay demands from the Wallabies players.

The Herald has been told that the Australian Rugby Union Players' Association, after being recently approached by Wallabies players, demanded that the Australian Rugby Union pay each player $2500 to appear in the trial match.
This unexpected pay demand, which is understood to have been driven by several senior Wallabies, would have been over and above their already lucrative contracts with the ARU, which include them being paid an extra $11,000 each time they play a Test. The Wallabies' demands - which would have involved the 44 players selected for a trial match proposed for next month - would have meant the ARU footing an extra $110,000 bill.

It is known that senior ARU officials and Wallabies coach Robbie Deans were astounded and deeply disappointed when confronted by the demand from RUPA. They assumed the players would naturally want to play in the game as a way of confirming their selection in the historic grand slam tour - the first time the Wallabies have played England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland one one tour since the 1984 triumph, when Mark Ella scored a try in each Test."

 

[eddo]

Money Hungry Wallabies.

http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/news/cash-demands-scupper-trial/2009/09/21/1253384951185.html

A PROPOSED Possible-Probables match, which was to act as the final selection trial for the end of season grand slam tour, has been called off because of extraordinary pay demands from the Wallabies players.

The Herald has been told that the Australian Rugby Union Players' Association, after being recently approached by Wallabies players, demanded that the Australian Rugby Union pay each player $2500 to appear in the trial match.

This unexpected pay demand, which is understood to have been driven by several senior Wallabies, would have been over and above their already lucrative contracts with the ARU, which include them being paid an extra $11,000 each time they play a Test. The Wallabies' demands - which would have involved the 44 players selected for a trial match proposed for next month - would have meant the ARU footing an extra $110,000 bill.

It is known that senior ARU officials and Wallabies coach Robbie Deans were astounded and deeply disappointed when confronted by the demand from RUPA. They assumed the players would naturally want to play in the game as a way of confirming their selection in the historic grand slam tour - the first time the Wallabies have played England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland one one tour since the 1984 triumph, when Mark Ella scored a try in each Test.

As a result of the unbudgeted pay expense, the ARU in recent days decided not to go ahead with the trial. Due to its cancellation, it is believed there will instead be an open training session in Sydney, where fans will be able to watch the Wallabies in action before they head off for the spring tour. This dispute has been simmering for some time, with the ARU hoping that the Wallabies players would eventually see sense. However, that was not to be.It is believed that the original Possible-Probables match, which several decades ago was the traditional way of selecting a Wallabies squad for a northern hemisphere or even New Zealand tour, would have been played under lights. Several venues were proposed, including the

Sydney Football Stadium and North Sydney Oval. This trial would have also been the ideal way for fringe Wallabies to stake their claims just before the squad was selected. It is certainly a smarter way to determine form than relying on club performances, where the standard and competition is not as high. Also, as the club seasons around Australia are now in the finals stage, there are many potential Wallabies candidates unable to show the selectors their worth because their teams have already finished their seasons.

That is why the ARU and Deans looked so closely at the Possible-Probables match, believing it would give everyone a fair chance, as well as putting pressure on certain established Wallabies players who are badly out of form.

The Wallabies will go into a training camp in a few weeks to prepare for an extensive tour, which starts with the final Bledisloe Cup match in Tokyo on October 31, followed by an England Test at Twickenham on November 7. The Wallabies will get a rare chance to play at historic Croke Park in Dublin when they confront Ireland on November 15, before internationals against Scotland at Murrayfield on November 21 and Wales in Cardiff on November 28. Several midweek matches are also in the pipeline, and the Wallabies will leave for Tokyo with a sizeable squad that could include at least 35 players.

The senior players' stance, which has led to the trial abandonment, will hardly appease an agitated Wallabies spectator base, who can rightfully claim that they did not get value for money from their team during the Tri Nations. Apart from the triumph against the Springboks in Brisbane, the Wallabies have had a dreadful series, finishing wooden-spooners after several bad performances, including against the All Blacks in Wellington on Saturday night. After the Wellington debacle, this Possible-Probables match could have easily turned into a public relations dream. Instead its demise sadly reveals the cracks within the Wallabies player framework

Apparently their huge salaries aren't enough, but now the wallabies want to be paid for inter-squad games?
$2500 each..

WTF is going on here? These pricks put on one of the worst shows in Green and Gold history and they want to be paid for pulling their spineless arses into line.

Struth, If I was a headmaster I'd be lining the fuckers up against the wall and cane them one by one.

Absolutely ridiculous, unnacceptable and disrespectful.

(not that I agree the ARU should make money off it either.)
IMO - there could have been a trial match at N Sydney Oval with a $10 gate to cover the ground fees, cleaning etc.

I doubt tix would have been more than that anyway - so once again. "Senior Wallabies" have apparently forgotten their place in rugby. Kick 'em all out and take an Selection 15 from people who care.

:angryfire:

 

[Gagger]

This has Tony Fucking Demspey written all over it.

 

[Inconceivable]

$2,500 is loose change to these guys. Maybe there's more to the story here, but if the reporting is correct, it looks like RUPA is sending a clear message about who owns the game in Oz. Amazing that Deans and O'Neill and simple common sense can be outflanked by this kind of cynical shite.

As Deans has said, it's about pride in the jersey. PRIDE IN THE JERSEY. A lack of volunteers. VOLUNTEERS, FFS. Is it that hard to understand? :angryfire:

Can anyone imagine Brad Thorn insisting on $2,500 to play in this kind of game? Unthinkable, right? Until this sort of situation is unthinkable in Australian rugby, we'll keep getting pumped by teams who just want it more than we do. It reminds me of the Indian cricket team a few years ago. Big fish in their home country, loads of money, guaranteed endorsement money, no genuine incentive to perform on the field.

No doubt some people will suggest performance-based pay, but if you've looked into that sort of thing it turns out to be a band-aid. What we need is intrinsic motivation, i.e., once again, PRIDE IN THE JERSEY.

When we got O'Neill and Deans back I thought we were golden, but now I'm worried we have much deeper cultural and structural/political issues... both of which will be really hard to change without a real crisis of some kind.

 

[fatprop]

Maybe they could give some money back "earned" from Saturday's game to pay for it.

 

[Spook]

I'm disgusted.

 

[Sully]

Simple solution.

Memo from the ARU. There is an unpaid trial match at north Sydney oval on **/**/**. It is not compulsory to play but non attendance signals your reluctance to tour in November and will be noted. Thank you

 

[fatprop]

To be a devil's advocate for a moment, the players may have a point if the game was to be promoted and played at say the SFS with paying punters.

I am sure Deans can say that "you lot play this lot" at Coogee Oval as part of the training programme and probably will, RUPA would only be involved if it was a commercial venture

 

[mark_s]

I agree, have an open invite to anyone interested in playing in a poss V prob game for free. Then pick the squad based on the players last performance, which will either be that rubbish served up in Wellington or the Poss V probs game depending on what each individual player want.

Dean's might start thinking about resigning if this sort of shit starts up again

 

[Lindommer]

A report in today's Australian puts this match into context

Wallabies refuse to play the Baa-Baas

THE NSW Rugby Union has refunded its members $120,000 following the cancellation of a proposed match between the Wallabies and the Australian Barbarians at the Sydney Football Stadium on Saturday week.

The match was to serve as a final selection trial for the Wallabies' tour of Tokyo and the Britain and to fill a void in the NSWRU's match schedule. The NSWRU had included an Australia A game as part of its season package, but the ARU subsequently abolished the Australia A program. As a result, the NSWRU approached the ARU to allow it to stage the Wallabies-Barbarians game, but the project was abandoned after players demanded a match fee.

"My inbound game each year is part of my package to sponsors," NSWRU chief executive Jim L'Estrange said. "It's normally an Australia A game, but after I sent it out to members the Australia A program was cancelled. "We had been working with the ARU for a few months to get another inbound game. They were looking enthusiastically on another game before the boys (Wallabies) flew out. It made a lot of sense. A last trial for a few lads. At the end of the day it didn't get up for a combination of reasons. There was some issue in regard to availability of players and it fell into the too hard basket. The members wanted the game or their money back. I've had to refund $100,000 to $120,000."

The Rugby Union Players Association argued the players should be paid for playing in a high-profile match. The Wallabies are paid $11,000 a Test, although it is unlikely they would have asked for that much. It would have been closer to the $7500 fee they received for playing against the British Barbarians in Sydney in June. "The players' attitude was if the game is being played for commercial gain, we want to be paid," RUPA chief executive Tony Dempsey said. "If it was just an internal trial to select the touring team at North Sydney Oval, we wouldn't expect to be paid. The guys are entitled to a fee. We hadn't talked about it. It wouldn't have been a Test match fee. It's not in the CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement). In that case we needed to have a negotiation and come to an agreement."

The ARU did not want to comment on the reasons why the game was cancelled, but expressed disappointment it was not being played. The Wallabies will now play a Probables versus Possibles trial in Sydney as a selection decider for the tour, which will include the first Grand slam of Britain and Ireland in 25 years.

I reckon Gagger's right, this has Tony Dempsey's hands all over it. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if the "senior Wallabies" had nothing to do with RUPA's demands. What the ARU should do now is schedule a Possible v Probables match at Concord Oval and suggest to Robbie he select the same players he intended to look at anyway. And then pay the bastards nothing.

 

[Scotty]

They always have inter squad trial matches as part of their camps, particularly leading up the world cup anyway. Most of them seem to be about 40mins long - two 20min halves. Just stage one of these in an open training session, and tell the players it will be part of picking the final squad for the tour. No problems.

Seems the game was only being staged formally to appease the NSWRU anyway.

 

[Gagger]

There's more to this - some history: http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/there-will-be-blood-wallaby-trial-scratched/

Scotty - I'm not sure 20 mins each way at training has the same pressure as a televised full match in front of 15,000+

 

[JJJ]

A probables vs possibles match would've been great for the game here. I'd want to watch it for sure. Who do you reckon would be in the Possibles 22? Personally I'd love to see a front row of Robinson/TPN/Alexander square up to Cowan/Moore/Baxter, though I realize all those guys barring Baxter would be in the Probables. Ah well, it's a moot point now.

You'd think they'd want to do something to compensate for the loss of supporter interest their results this season will have caused. It would've been a great match with little or none of the mental fragility evident with which the boys play against NZ (especially) and SA. I have to wonder if there's a lingering element of payback here re the whole Tuqiri saga from the "senior players". Anyway, fuck you, Tony Dempsey.

 

[Scotty]

Scotty - I'm not sure 20 mins each way at training has the same pressure as a televised full match in front of 15,000+

I think it would for the guys on the cusp of selection.

 

[wobbly]

Why on earth would the ARU have scrapped the Aus A program? With no ARC and no Wallaby tour matches, they're expecting young blokes who've played a season or two or Super 14 and a sprinkling of club games to step up to full international level and play 7 tests a year against the two best sides in the world. It's fucken madness!

We have the youngest squad amongst the top draw of international teams and to be competitive we need a far better development path than we currently have. Sure we'll have the ocassional test where everything will click like it did in Brisbane, but the Wallabies are in long term decline and will continue to be until the development structure is more sound.

 

[Ozrugbynut]

This is an absolute disgrace, and needs to be fully investigated.

The balance of power between RUPA and ARU needs to be addressed as it is clearly not serving the greater interests of the game in Australia.

Players have a right to fair remuneration, but also need to see the reality facing Australian Rugby. Australian Rugby competes with stronger international unions and with three other football codes. A strong governing body is the only way to ensure the viability and success of the game in this country.

 

[Ozrugbynut]

Developing the game in Australia - Ideas & Suggestions

With 3 rival football codes and competing with stronger international rugby unions, Australian Rugby is up against it.

What strategies can all Australian rugby bodies, stakeholders and fans do promote and develop game in Australia?

 

[Scarfman]

G'day ORN,

I've merged your topic with biffo's. Just too many new threads at the moment.

I think everyone just needs to get some frustration out of the system this week. I think "the Wallabies capitulated and I'm mad as hell" sums it up.

But as to your question - well, a domestic competition wouldn't hurt. Everyone blames O'Neill but I know that the clubs were actively trying to scupper it in the hope that they'd get their own version of the comp. Ended up with neither. Well played.

 

[Biffo]

Sorry, Scarfie, it's a little hard to decide where to post this - probably my own fault for starting some new threads :huxley

Let's look closely at Brisbane and Wellington and see what is the same and what is different:

A. Wallabies: factors which could have caused the debacle:

1. Same team
2. Playing home and away

B. Wallabies: factors which could NOT have caused the debacle:

1. Same coaches
2. Same administration
3. Same club and representative structures

C. New Zealand: factors which could have caused the triumph:

1. Much changed team
2. Playing away and home
3. Desperation
4. Reversion to basics

D. New Zealand: factors which could NOT have caused the triumph:

1. Same coaches
2. Same administration
3. Same club and representative structures

So, factors B and D are eliminated. Looking at C, there is probably some cause there. The most important may be C4, as the UnZidders always have it over us when they go to the basics.

That leaves me with factors A. Home and away is important but not cause enough. That leaves me with factor A1 as dominant. The same players were able to beat RSA well a fortnight earlier, so why so dismal in Wellington?

Paul Simon "problem is all inside your head, he said to me".

It's the minds of the cattle.

 

[Red Beard]

From an outsiders perspective your code is in serious shit if your own players can dictate whether or not they will be playing in a trial designed to assess their own individual operformances! Im not sure how much AB trialists are paid (I will find out though and let you know) but Ive never heard of a top NZ player refusing to play. Henry held a trial when he took over in 2004 and a young bloke called Carl Hayman played his way back into the test squad based on that performance.