Ballymore Redevelopment

[The Ghost of Raelene]

No idea also if other states in Aus have an interest in hosting an Olympics (I think Perth could give it a crack) but I can't imagine the QSAC proposal if done would do anyone in AUS any favours in the eyes of the IOC.

 

[Sword of Justice]

It was always such a terrible option in every single facet. More expensive in the long run, no real transport options, no legacy, globally embarrassing. It really wouldn’t surprise me if we go straight back to the original proposal.

Saw someone float just copying Optus stadium and chuck a different skin around it plus some different accoutrements. No idea if the site would allow that but seems like a good idea tbf. Only cost $1.6b but that was prior to inflation and without the bridal tax of Olympics I guess.

 

[JRugby2]

Olympic review to be given ‘golden triangle’ vision, with a hint of pineapple

The 100-day review into Brisbane’s Olympic venues for 2032 is about to begin. Here’s what one expert thinks the new panel should consider when work begins.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

Loosely related to this thread and it does mention Ballymore (albeit not in a particularly favourable light) and this is nothing but an opinion piece.

Genuinely interested to see what the future of Ballymore is post 100 days - particularly with the ToR to be not just about venues but how other public infrastructure will work/ be needed to activate them. Ballymores undeniable achillies heel relative to other similar existing sites is it's lack of access. In the event that we see Perry Park given favour over Ballymore, my guess is we can say goodbye to any additional stage 2 funding for the Eastern Stand.

 

[drewprint]

Olympic review to be given ‘golden triangle’ vision, with a hint of pineapple

The 100-day review into Brisbane’s Olympic venues for 2032 is about to begin. Here’s what one expert thinks the new panel should consider when work begins.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

Loosely related to this thread and it does mention Ballymore (albeit not in a particularly favourable light) and this is nothing but an opinion piece.

Genuinely interested to see what the future of Ballymore is post 100 days - particularly with the ToR to be not just about venues but how other public infrastructure will work/ be needed to activate them. Ballymores undeniable achillies heel relative to other similar existing sites is it's lack of access. In the event that we see Perry Park given favour over Ballymore, my guess is we can say goodbye to any additional stage 2 funding for the Eastern Stand.

Without even clicking the article I knew it would be written by Atfield. He’s essentially a PR stooge for soccer.

 

[JRugby2]

Without even clicking the article I knew it would be written by Atfield. He’s essentially a PR stooge for soccer.

The guy undeniably loves Football, and sure - he's found an Engineer who agrees with him.

But his biases don't automatically make him wrong or his points less valid

 

[Wilson]

The guy undeniably loves Football, and sure - he's found an Engineer who agrees with him.

But his biases don't automatically make him wrong or his points less valid

The argument for Perry Park as the hockey venue over Ballymore does undercut the validity though - it's something Attfield has been pushing for years, but it completely ignores the fact that precinct simply isn't big enough to meet requirements. Attfield is well aware of this (and has written about it in the past) but chose to ignore it here. This is from a previous article on the subject:

But counting against the long-term home of Queensland soccer was its size — about four hectares, compared with Ballymore’s 10.

Deputy Premier Steven Miles said Ballymore was chosen because its site footprint would meet Olympic requirements.

“Those requirements include that the venue needs to incorporate two competition fields, grandstands for 10,000 and 5000 spectators respectively, and an adjacent warm-up field,” he said.

There are absolutely transport issues for Ballymore, but they're not disqualifying in the way that size issues are, and they are solvable. More importantly, upgrades to transport infrastructure are right up the top what the lasting legacy of the Olympics should be.

It's certainly not impossible that this review changes things to Ballymore's detriment, but spending over $100 million more on the stadium alone at Perry Park at the expense of Ballymore seems like a very unlikely outcome.

 

[JRugby2]

The argument for Perry Park as the hockey venue over Ballymore does undercut the validity though - it's something Attfield has been pushing for years, but it completely ignores the fact that precinct simply isn't big enough to meet requirements. Attfield is well aware of this (and has written about it in the past) but chose to ignore it here. This is from a previous article on the subject:


There are absolutely transport issues for Ballymore, but they're not disqualifying in the way that size issues are, and they are solvable. More importantly, upgrades to transport infrastructure are right up the top what the lasting legacy of the Olympics should be.

It's certainly not impossible that this review changes things to Ballymore's detriment, but spending over $100 million more on the stadium alone at Perry Park at the expense of Ballymore seems like a very unlikely outcome.

I'm not really sure how you solve the transport problem at Ballymore though?

All of the access points on both sides of Enogerra Creek are via quiet suburban streets which has been the bane of locals since Ballymore V1 was built. Wilston train station would also require significant upgrade to deal with a capacity crowd event, if that was the solution (and that still doesn't solve the suburbia problem).

I hope its a case of por que no los dos, and we get both a ballymore upgrade as the primary community venue for rectangle sports, and a nice little boutique stadium at Perry Park. Should I hold my breath?

 

[LeCheese]

I'm not really sure how you solve the transport problem at Ballymore though?

 

[Wilson]

I'm not really sure how you solve the transport problem at Ballymore though?

All of the access points on both sides of Enogerra Creek are via quiet suburban streets which has been the bane of locals since Ballymore V1 was built. Wilston train station would also require significant upgrade to deal with a capacity crowd event, if that was the solution (and that still doesn't solve the suburbia problem).

I hope its a case of por que no los dos, and we get both a ballymore upgrade as the primary community venue for rectangle sports, and a nice little boutique stadium at Perry Park. Should I hold my breath?

There's no one solution, but a combination of them will do a lot - improved pedestrian access from Wilston station and bus links (and potentially better pedestrian access) from Exhibition are big part of it. The other one is a consideration around where and when people will be moving - currently its flood in and flood out in one or two directions at the start and end of the game, if you can give people reasons to trickle in and out it helps a lot, but also spreading where they go afterwards helps. One of the biggest potential boons could be if they revisit the Victoria park stadium - all of a sudden you'd have a growing precinct quite close with plenty of olympic events on and you can link them up with things like regular shuttle busses and improved pedestrian access. But there's also a growing argument for a bit of restaurant/bar precinct around there and a broader rethink of the suburbs in terms of density and how the live with the flood risk is required, though I do admit that's the exact sort of thing governments are likely to put in the too hard basket.

 

[Jets]

That's why Ballymore worked in the "old days" when the bars stayed open long after the games. Quite a few people hung around at the bars talking and wouldn't leave until well after the game.

 

[JRugby2]

That's why Ballymore worked in the "old days" when the bars stayed open long after the games. Quite a few people hung around at the bars talking and wouldn't leave until well after the game.

I imagine it would be a first for transport engineers to determine the solution to a traffic flow problem would be asking people to drink more and for longer

 

[dru]

But counting against the long-term home of Queensland soccer was its size — about four hectares, compared with Ballymore’s 10.

Sorting out space for transport corridors at Ballymore would be tricky. Perry Park is surrounded by industrial property - it's not at all cheaper, but it is a lot easier to reclaim politically.

I had a wander around South Brisbane this week, amazing what has been developed out of the Expo 88 site. True investment in the future of the city. I'd really like to see a repeat with the Olympics. To be honest, I think the corridor from South Brisbane to Woolongabba is fantastic vision. It's not particularly commercially sound in 2024 though. I suspect the corridor from Perry Park through Albion up to Brothers home ground could be sensational.

 

[Wilson]

Probably also worth mentioning that for all of hockey Queensland's objections around Ballymore (they'd ideally prefer their own facility), they've never once spoken in support of perry park, or as far as I can tell even mentioned it as an option. They'd likely be even more resistant to it as it would see more money spent "on them" but not for them, further reducing the chance they get any lasting benefits from the Olympics.

 

[Adam84]

Probably also worth mentioning that for all of hockey Queensland's objections around Ballymore (they'd ideally prefer their own facility), they've never once spoken in support of perry park, or as far as I can tell even mentioned it as an option. They'd likely be even more resistant to it as it would see more money spent "on them" but not for them, further reducing the chance they get any lasting benefits from the Olympics.

Correct, this argument that the hockey should be held at Perry Park isn’t driven or supported by Hockey officials, it’s driven by football powerbrokers who want a new boutique stadium for football. There isn’t even space to host a warmup pitch at Perry Park, critical to hosting Hockey for the games.

Perry Park would cost $200million to be brought up to a boutique 15-20k stadium standard.. that’s a lot of ‘Olympic money’ for something which isn’t even critical for the games

 

[stoff]

I imagine it would be a first for transport engineers to determine the solution to a traffic flow problem would be asking people to drink more and for longer

These are the words of someone who has never tried to get a statutory parking reduction for a pub development.

 

[JRugby2]

Sorting out space for transport corridors at Ballymore would be tricky. Perry Park is surrounded by industrial property - it's not at all cheaper, but it is a lot easier to reclaim politically.

I had a wander around South Brisbane this week, amazing what has been developed out of the Expo 88 site. True investment in the future of the city. I'd really like to see a repeat with the Olympics. To be honest, I think the corridor from South Brisbane to Woolongabba is fantastic vision. It's not particularly commercially sound in 2024 though. I suspect the corridor from Perry Park through Albion up to Brothers home ground could be sensational.

The main advantage Perry Park has re transport is Bowen Hills train station across the road. They wouldn't likely need to reclaim any land at all.

(this is putting aside the Hockey thing - unless the IOC change their rules re the space they need it sounds like it's not even a conversation)

 

[Jets]

My understanding is they need two fields to play matches on plus warm up facilities. Perry Park won't offer that.

Wilston Station upgrade, a pedestrian bridge over Newmarket Road and wider footpaths to the bridge over the creek would work. It's only 1.5km and there will only be around 15K people using it.

 

[The Phoenix]

My understanding is they need two fields to play matches on plus warm up facilities. Perry Park won't offer that.

Wilston Station upgrade, a pedestrian bridge over Newmarket Road and wider footpaths to the bridge over the creek would work. It's only 1.5km and there will only be around 15K people using it.

Twickenham Station is about 2ks from Twickenham and a lot more people do that walk on match days than would be walking to Ballymore. Do up Wilston Station and put a decent bridge over the creek and educate people to walk. I've done the Twickenham walk in mid-winter - Brisbane in mid-winter (and September for the games) would be a lot more pleasant.

 

[JRugby2]

Twickenham Station is about 2ks from Twickenham and a lot more people do that walk on match days than would be walking to Ballymore. Do up Wilston Station and put a decent bridge over the creek and educate people to walk. I've done the Twickenham walk in mid-winter - Brisbane in mid-winter (and September for the games) would be a lot more pleasant.

To me this is best option though I guess that modern stadium or event space planning would probably dictate that we need multiple ways for people to leave the precinct, but beyond that I suppose the obvious reply to this is Brisbane isn't West London, and Ballymore isn't Twickenham.

One of the major problems of Ballymore of old was the residents of herston didn't like having their streets filled with people pre and post game. Can imagine the logic stands for those in Wilston on the other side of the creek as crowds stumble to the train station.

And as Ballymore isn't exactly the same money spinner that Twicks is, my guess is the council and state govt would be less inclined to force it upon them.

 

[Strewthcobber]

My understanding is they need two fields to play matches on plus warm up facilities. Perry Park won't offer that.

Wilston Station upgrade, a pedestrian bridge over Newmarket Road and wider footpaths to the bridge over the creek would work. It's only 1.5km and there will only be around 15K people using it.

Even with a station upgrade, I wouldn't have thought QR could handle anything like that volume of passengers on that line