Australia's 5th team

[RugbyReg]

Ok, let's see if we do have the depth.

Let's start discussing players that could come up/back/across to fill a squad of 33. Try to ignore currently contracted Super 14 players from Australia (despite the fact if it went to Melbourne, Digby Ione should be the first player they sign). Don't worry too much about salaries, lets just spit ball this. Run it up the flag pole. Brainstorm a little. yada yada

Fullback:
- Elia Tuqiri (gonna chuck him here, but he can play anywhere in the backline. Was playing club footy in Brisbane (awesomely) last year, but has gone to Japan I think)
- Peter Playford (well obviously he didn't impress the Force, but still an option)

Wing:
- Caleb Brown (haven't heard a thing about where he's gone after the Force debacle. Damn good player though)
- Leon Bott (former Oz Schoolboy and then Broncos star. Back playing club footy in Sydney?)
- Ant Sauer (former Aussie 7s star, really think he should have got the Reds spot that Veratau took)
- Dom Shipperley (Reds Academy, 08 Aussie Schoolboy who Lee rates)

Centre:
- Andrew Brown (former solid Reds centre, playing in Japan. Good back up player)
- Mark Gasnier (leaguie playing in France. A big money Melbourne offer and gets the chance not to live in Sydney?)
- Lloyd Johansson (a Melbourne boy, perhaps he can refine his game OS for a little while first).
- Chris Siale (never got a great chance for the Reds, looked decent in the first game of the season. OS now)
- Ben Jacobs (one of the Tahs' leading backs but is trying his hand OS somewhere)
- Rowan Kellam (liked what I saw of him, the little I saw some time ago, contractless now I believe)
- Lachlan Mitchell (why did he go OS? Does he have aspirations of getting qualified over there?)
- Brett Gillespie (underage star. Oz U21 or 19 skipper wasn't he? Never really took off with the Reds. Shall be interesting if he is still playing club this year).
- Clint Eadie (former Tah Academy? solid centre played ARC)
- Sanualio Afeaki (thought this guy was fantastic for the Brums on the few times he got a run this year)
- Pat McAbe (Brumbies Academy and Warringah Centre. I know no more)

Flyhalf:
- Paul Warwick (has he qualified for Ireland yet?)
- Manny Edmonds (is he still playing?)
- James Hilgendorf (I thought he was decent enough for the top level, perhaps he'll come back?)
- Brock James (Lee to insert glowing praise)
- Dave Harvey (this is the Gordon lad right? Solid play maker)
- Dan Kelly Jnr (really impressed me in the ARC. Where is he now? Still at Sydney Uni playing behind Hangers?)
- Lachlan Mackay (not impressing anywhere OS)
- Jono Lance (Reds Academy, Aussie Schoolboy last year, 07)

Scrumhalf:
- Nic Berry (formerly of the Reds, OS somewhere now. Damn good player).
- Matty Henjak (do we want to give him another chance? Not doing much I would expect over in France)
- Brendan McKibbon (Briso club player of the year, Reds Academy next year, having a spell OS at the moment)
- Jeremy Su'a (Waratahs Academy I think, scrummie from Oz Schools 07 I think?)
- Brett Hamlin (Brumbies Academy, Oz Schoolboy from last year I think)
- Mark Swanepoel (Reds Academy, another recent Oz Schoolboys scrummie)

Backrow:
- Dan Heenan (having used Japanese technology to rebuild him, lets bring him back)
- AJ Gilbert (sure didn't live up to my expectations, but I think he's more an 8 than a 7 or 6. Perhaps a tad short)
- Lei Tomeki (the Reds didn't get him, not sure why not, worth a shot)
- Jone Tawake (bring him back refreshed and renewed Horua/Houston style)
- Ross Duncan (played damn well for the Rays in the ARC)
- Tim McGann (Easts backrower)
- Tim Davidson (Uni skipper, former Force and Tah)
- Luke Doherty (think this guy is a fantastic player, but playing in Japan I think)
- Andrew Shaw (Reds Academy openside. I assume he is being groomed to take over Braid, unless we sign Luke Braid!)
- Jake Schatz (highly skilled Reds Academy member, 07 Oz Schoolboys)
- Talalelei Gray (Brumbies Academy, Melbourne boy I think. Number 8)
- Ed Gower (Brumbies Academy, solid club player from Gordon)
- Ben Coridas (Waratah Academy, must be only the academy.)
- David Lyons (still reasonably young, might be worth a Welborn/Humphries type signing)

Lock:
- Al Campbell (was the Australia A captain last year remember)
- Ed O'Donaghue (I thought he was decent enough. Not test class but definitely Super class)
- Adam Wallace-Harrison (another player with a lot of ability who didn't get the chance I thought he deserved)
- Rudi Vedelago (back in QLD after a family issue, don't know what his plans are but another quality player option)
- Steve Mafi (Waratahs Academy lock, our is he too light for lock?)
- Kane Douglas (Waratahs Academy lock, don't know much more)

Props:
- Rodney Blake (after a couple of hardened years scrummaging in France)
- Herman Hunt (dropped by the Reds, but I thought he had potential. Not sure where he is).
- Ben Coutts (worth getting back? As back up I guess)
- James Slipper (Reds Academy prop and hooker, very highly rated, young)
- Jerry Yanuyanutawa (Another Sydney Uni rep prop, with Brumbies Academy. Australia A squad man but, curiously, got no game time)

Hookers:
- Ole Avei (former Reds, went to play NPC/ANZ in NZL. Another underrated player I felt)
- Josh Mann-Rea (Turds ARC hooker, and someone else wasn't he? played for the Rams too)
- Geoff Abram (former Reds/could be classed as a flanker too)
- Nathan Charles (highly rated young hooker, with the Brum Academy, from Sydney Uni right?)
- Damien Fitzpatrick (Tahs Academy I assume, former Oz Schools skipper, possible Lee Grant love child)

Coach:
- Michael O'Connor (has the talent ID stuff down pat, now coaching 7's, I wonder if he could convert to 15s)
- Bill Millard (did the Melbourne Rebels well)
- Steve Meehan (current Bath coach doing well)
- John McKee (ARC Premier winner)
- Brian Melrose (Spurned by the Tahs)

I need a break. Gimme some more. Over seas players, good club players ready to step up. Schoolboys/underage from the last few years ready to step up. Let's skip the leaguies for the time being though.

 

[formeropenside]

What happened to Caleb Brown and the Force?

How about Josh Mann-Rea, Turds MARC hooker?

 

[RugbyReg]

What happened to Caleb Brown and the Force?

How about Josh Mann-Rea, Turds MARC hooker?

Brown signed a contract with the Force, with a clause along the lines of "if your hammie goes, you go".

His hammy went, so so has he.

 

[formeropenside]

What happened to Caleb Brown and the Force?

How about Josh Mann-Rea, Turds MARC hooker?

Brown signed a contract with the Force, with a clause along the lines of "if your hammie goes, you go".

His hammy went, so so has he.

Thanks to Eddie Jones for throwing him into a trial match when he should have been having a rest. The squinting dwarf strikes again.

 

[Aussie D]

Fullback: Peter Betham (think he is in the Brumbies academy at the moment)
Wings: Forget his name but he was the "third" Randwick winger behind Ratu and Frankie. Islander guy with plenty of pace.
Centres: Barrett (Oz schools in '05?); Clint Eadie.
Flyhalves: the 2007 ICS/ISA kid, forget his name but from accounts he was quite handy.
Halfbacks: Elia Tuqiri (where is he now?); Tim Clark; West Harbour halfback looked quite handy this year.
Backrow: David Lyons (worth getting back?); Ben Coridas (only JW from memory); Ross Duncan; Jared Warea-Hargreaves.
Locks: ????
Props: The prop for Easts was handy from accounts I read.
Hooker: Al Manning, Geoff Abram (if available).

Coach: John McKee, Brian Melrose, Michael Cheika.
Assistant Coaches: Andrew Blades, Nic Stiles, Matt Ryan, Topo; David Campese; David Knox, Gary Ella, Glen Ella.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

What happened to Caleb Brown and the Force?
How about Josh Mann-Rea, Turds MARC hooker?

Brown signed a contract with the Force, with a clause along the lines of "if your hammie goes, you go".
His hammy went, so so has he.

Thanks to Eddie Jones for throwing him into a trial match when he should have been having a rest. The squinting dwarf strikes again.

I have long been critical of the sheer excess of strength work that is done at the Reds and othe s14 groups and Caleb's injuries are a symptom of that. Taking a raw 19 year old and insisting he go from 90kg to 100kg and maintain his speed was too much for an immature body.
These youngsters are being force (excuse the pun) fed a diet of exercise that their bodies can't yet take.
Until we see a rethink of fitness strategies we will see more and more of this.
IT'S CALLED RECOVERY - THE GREATEST MISUNDERSTOOD PART OF TRAINING and these fitness gurus need to pull their heads in and let athletes be athletes before they kill them.
Caleb is a gret natural winger and has great promise and since he trimmed his bulk back a few kilos he has had an increasein reliability - except for this episode. He has only sustained these leg injuries since bulking up to 100kg. he was perfectly fine at 92kg.

 

[Lee Grant]

Paul Warwick is not eligible for Ireland as he has played Sevens for Oz.

But one of the Irish commentators on Setanta was saying about a month ago that he was in such good form that Kidney would regret not having him in the Ireland squad as a back up to ROG because young Sexton was a bit green still and Paddy Wallace is more of a 12.

And they just love James at Clermont. If he were French he'd have played against Oz last weekend because Trinh-Duc and Beauxis were hurt and Skrela had been hot and cold for his club.

Lachlan Mackay is playing for Brive and can't make the 1st team or is injured. Hilgendorf is staying in Japan to qualify for them in the next RWC.

I've seen Henjak only twice for Toulon and they're a fairly crap team but they nearly beat Toulouse recently although Henners was on the bench. Incidentally - still no sign of SBW.

Gasnier is not exactly wowing them at SF. He makes too many mistakes near touch and panics - and the last match I saw, the day before Oz played France, he lasted only 20 minutes before he was crocked.

12 Rory Sidey has been highly regarded since he went to the Dragons but I saw him start just once, and he never got the ball once.

Manny Edmonds after some glory years at Perpignan is now playing for unfashionable club Bayonne, who are causing a lot of cheek and are in second place in the Top14. He's a regular player but the Bayonne games are not offered much for viewing and I haven't seen a lot of him.



The point is not who is overseas now because some won't come back, but by discussing it we can get a profile of what standard of player we would have available should we have a 5th team.

The transition years will be the hardest for Oz Super14 teams if a 5th team is realised, but I think we will be pleasantly surprised about 4 years after a 5th team starts playing and the effect of players not going overseas and a few coming back, takes effect. Of course a 5th team won't stop all players going offshore so we factor in only a portion to stay home.

I think the longer the lead time between when a 5th team is announced, and when they start playing, the better.

Good post Nod.

 

[Scotty]

Each time we build the competition successfully, (in length and quality) we should also see a similar increase in revenue, meaning these players will be paid more as well as having more options. That will arrest the overseas exodus even further.

 

[Lindommer]

It's well and good to speculate about players for the Melbourne Super team (it's rumoured they're occasionally useful), what about coaches? Here's a list of Oz coaches plying their trade overseas:

Matt Williams, Ulster
Michael Cheika, Leinster
Alan Gaffney, Leinster & Ireland
Tony McGahan, Munster (3 of the 4 Irish teams have an Oz coach. Connacht?)
Laurie Fisher, Munster
Les Kiss, Ireland
Brian Smith, England
Eddie Jones, Saracens
Steve Meehan, Bath
Brad Davis, Bath
John Muggleton, Llanelli Scarlets
Ewen McKenzie, Stade Francais
Tim Lane, Georgia
Scott Johnson, USA

Have I missed anyone? Any Oz coaches in Japan?
Adrian Thompson Kyuden Voltex
Todd Louden Ricoh
Matt O'Connor Leicester
Pat Byron Suntory
Ben Darwin NTT

 

[Spook]

Hasn't Connolly been sniffing around Toulon?

Noddy, awesome post. Post of the year IMO. :thumb

 

[Lindommer]

"Been" is correct. He lasted two days. Umaga didn't like his advice and got in the ear of the squillionaire owner to dispense with Knuckles' services.

 

[Lindommer]

It's well and good to speculate about players for the S14 Melbourne team (it's rumoured they're occasionally useful), what about coaches? Here's a list of Oz coaches plying their trade overseas:

Matt Williams, Ulster
Michael Cheika, Leinster
Alan Gaffney, Leinster & Ireland
Tony McGahan, Munster (3 of the 4 Irish teams have an Oz coach. Connacht?)
Laurie Fisher, Munster
Les Kiss, Ireland
Brian Smith, England
Eddie Jones, Saracens
Steve Meehan, Bath
Brad Davis, Bath
John Muggleton, Llanelli Scarlets
Ewen McKenzie, Stade Francais
Tim Lane, Georgia
Scott Johnson, USA

Have I missed anyone? Any Oz coaches in Japan?

Are there any good forwards coaches among this lot? Especially for set pieces.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

I'll take Matt Williams assisted by Tim Lane and Muggleton any day.

 

[Ash]

I'll take Matt Williams assisted by Tim Lane and Muggleton any day.

Only if you want a to have a 3 - 5 year plan, but intend on sacking the useless coach after 2 years anyway. Ask Lindommer what Williams did to West Harbour. A first rate coach should be able to do better with a club team!

 

[Aussie D]

I'll take Matt Williams assisted by Tim Lane and Muggleton any day.

Only if you want a to have a 3 - 5 year plan, but intend on sacking the useless coach after 2 years anyway. Ask Lindommer what Williams did to West Harbour. A first rate coach should be able to do better with a club team!

DOn't bloody remind us! Thankfully the board shwed wisdom in giving him the arse.

As for forwards assistant coaches, I mentioned Andrew Blades and Matt Ryan previously - both are top notch forward coaches. If you wanted to go old scholl Topo, Jake Howard (not sure if he has retired or not) or Alec Evans could fill the position. Was it Ross Reynolds who laid the foundations for the Uni forward dynasty? Joe Barakat developed an excellent scrum at West Harbour as well in the early '00s.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

I'll take Matt Williams assisted by Tim Lane and Muggleton any day.

Only if you want a to have a 3 - 5 year plan, but intend on sacking the useless coach after 2 years anyway. Ask Lindommer what Williams did to West Harbour. A first rate coach should be able to do better with a club team!

He had good success at the Woods.

 

[RugbyReg]

Brock James tearing them up:

Munster slipped to their first defeat in Europe since lifting the Heineken Cup but a bonus point in Clermont-Auvergne kept their qualification hopes alive.

Brock James scored all of Clermont's points, including six penalties and a second-half try, to keep his team in the tournament with a repeat of last season's victory over the European champions.

But Ronan O'Gara's 73rd-minute penalty ensured Munster left France with a potentially crucial losing bonus point that keeps them in touch with leaders Sale Sharks with two of their next three pool games at home.

Marcus Horan got the visitors off to a nice lead in the 25th minute with a well taken try after O?Gara and James had traded two penalties each early on.

James kept Clermont in the game though with some pinpoint kicking after Munster gave away a series of penalties.

The home side stepped up a gear and it was James himself who beat two tackles to score a crucial try.

A moment of ill-discipline handed Munster the chance at a bonus point, as Pierre Mignoni conceded a penalty, which was followed by them being marched back another 10 years after comments made by the players.

O?Gara obliged, and the match finished 25-19 to the home side.

These highlights include not only the tries, but a few big hits too. Enjoy.

video at http://rugbydump.com/

 

[Lee Grant]

He hardly ever has an ordinary game. I've heard some question his defence but it's very hard to spot in the games I've seen CA play in the last 2 seasons.

He's so valuable to CA that they wouldn't let him go to play Super rugby. There is no salary cap for Clermont Avergne and their budget is underwritten by the Michelin company.

 

[Lee Grant]

PS - have just watched the game. MOTM James had a blinder. ROG won't want to look at the video of James' try because James stepped inside him as though O'Gara was collecting the rent money.

Commentators Harrison and Barnes purred over James' performance.

I had mixed emotions about the result: Munster is the Euro team I follow most, but in the Top14 I follow Link McKenzie's team Stade Francais and Clermont.

Geez, there were some top games in the HC last weekend and next weekend all the games are being replayed with the home ground reversed.

It's a more interesting comp than the S14 - drama every week because of the small pools, whereas in the S14 you can always make up losses with a late run.

 

[Spook]

ROG still can't tackle :