Australian Schoolboys / Under 18s 2019

[DaSchmooze]

All of them? The maths of that doesn't add up if there are also some early school-leavers in the team?

Maybe I'm the only one that finds it worrying that WA Schools are sending teams to RL schoolboy championships and not RU ones. Maybe there's nothing to worry about and RA have everything under control.

I'm not sure why it's essential that you have to be still at school to get access to a performance pathway?

But in any case -

I would argue that WA isnt in a position of such strength where they can spread their pathway players across two teams (one school based, the other club based). It seems sensible to me to focus the talent on the one group in a pathway that actually leads somewhere.

 

[Quick Hands]

I'm not sure why it's essential that you have to be still at school to get access to a performance pathway?

It isn't, there's nothing wrong with club-based pathways. There should always be a pathway for boys not at school, but that isn't what's being discussed. It's possible, in fact perfectly normal in most sports, to have a club-based pathway but to still have a representative programme for boys and girls who are still at school. Rugby league seems to recognise it, it's interesting that rugby seems to be moving away from it as league moves further towards it. In the space of less than 5 years the Combined Independent Schools RL team in NSW has gone from being easy beats to contenders.

 

[Quick Hands]

It seems sensible to me to focus the talent on the one group in a pathway that actually leads somewhere.

Do the club and school pathways lead to different places?

 

[DaSchmooze]

Do the club and school pathways lead to different places?

In most sports yes. The school pathway ends with a presentation night, nice plaque, a certificate, perhaps some cake.

Club pathways lead to National representation in that chosen sport or an NCAA scholarship (or both).

There are some exceptions (and I'm very glad that there are exceptions):

Cross Country - both school and club pathways converge at the national championship. Most states permit the school pathway to take "first dibs" at their athletes when compiling their school teams whilst the U18, U20 and Open brackets are dominated by club athletes.

Touch Football - School and club converge at the National Youth Championships. NSW sends 3 association teams (CIS, CCC, CHS) and a NSW Touch Football team. Queensland do it a bit differently with one school team (QSS) and then the remainder go via the regional association team. National teams picked based upon performance at this event and systemic tracking of players through their state bodies.

And now it would seem - boys Rugby (and I never thought that would be possible and I wonder how much fantastic leg work was done by people behind the scenes to get this deal across the line).

Edit - there may be other sports too that I'm not aware of

I fully support sports controlling the junior player pathway for as much the same reason as I fully support the education system writing the school curriculum. Each has a role in supporting the other but when they're set up in opposition to each other, the development of the players suffer and as a consequence, so does the sport.

I used to be able to argue the point that nobody was ever selected for a National team based wholly and soley upon a school only approach to their chosen sport - Rugby used to be the exception. Even then, you could argue that for a lot of internationals who attended independent schools, they got their grounding in the sport at a local park level long before they went to high school.

How it goes in practice remains to be seen - it's early days yet and I'm sure there will be some kinks to iron out. But a unified junior player pathway directed by industry specialists should be the aim of every school sport and I'm glad everyone in this space in Rugby now appears to agree with this assertion.

 

[Number 7]

Where does he coach? Isn't he the father of the nine from Iggies ?

Yep thats the guy.

He has coached my son three times over the last 10 years in various teams (including reps). Not sure that he coaches anywhere outside of Cavaliers now as he had a falling out with Gordon for reasons I don't know.

 

[Number 7]

Why is it worrying QH? All of those WA school boys are now playing in the academy team with some early school leavers as well. It's the same group of boys.

Edit - link to the WA team list

https://wa.rugby/-/media/20192706_r...0&la=en&hash=1F6B97B129A1A56EFB0444CF86A84FEF

Can anyone source a NSW team list? I have tried but cannot find.

I have been told by a WA players dad it will be live streamed by Rugby WA. I will post the link when I get it.

 

[RugbyReg]

RA have never really been involved with the schools other than chucking a bunch of funding their way.

That went to running the champs and the touring of the australian team (I believe).

After a review of the schools program last year they thought it best to have an Australian U18 team (I assume as a stepping stone to NRC U19s and then the OzU20s) so the team previously known as the Australian Schoolboys team became the Australian Schools and U18 team (with a RA appointed coach). THat started last year and will seemingly continue from hereon in.

THe RA now funds academies in QLD, NSW, ACT, VIC and WA and those teams play in the National Academy program. This includes schoolboy players plus any school leavers 18 or under.

Those players will fill the majority of the Australian Schools and 18 team later this year. The ASRU decided to continue to run the championships, for the tradition as much as anything (and everything positive that comes with tournament play). THe main rugby schools in QLD seemed to decided to back the establishment's academy program and not make their players eligible for the schools tournament.

An Australian Barbarians squad will be picked from the schools tournament next week and they will play Samoa later this year. As always, players who stand out in this tournament and that game will have every chance of selection in the academy and Australian 18 team.

Anyone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong with any of the above.

 

[DaSchmooze]

The main rugby schools in QLD seemed to decided to back the establishment's academy program and not make their players eligible for the schools tournament.

Considering the open scholarship market within Queensland schools, the thought that they could get their best players into a forward pathway without it impacting too much on the GPS Champs must have been a very attractive scenario. All their players will be fresh, (relatively) injury free and ready to go for Term 3.

 

[kiap]

After a review of the schools program last year they thought it best to have an Australian U18 team (I assume as a stepping stone to NRC U19s and then the OzU20s) so the team previously known as the Australian Schoolboys team became the Australian Schools and U18 team (with a RA appointed coach). THat started last year and will seemingly continue from hereon in.

Yeah, I think that's the right move. Should've done it years ago.

 

[I like to watch]

RA have never really been involved with the schools other than chucking a bunch of funding their way.

That went to running the champs and the touring of the australian team (I believe).

After a review of the schools program last year they thought it best to have an Australian U18 team (I assume as a stepping stone to NRC U19s and then the OzU20s) so the team previously known as the Australian Schoolboys team became the Australian Schools and U18 team (with a RA appointed coach). THat started last year and will seemingly continue from hereon in.

THe RA now funds academies in QLD, NSW, ACT, VIC and WA and those teams play in the National Academy program. This includes schoolboy players plus any school leavers 18 or under.

Those players will fill the majority of the Australian Schools and 18 team later this year. The ASRU decided to continue to run the championships, for the tradition as much as anything (and everything positive that comes with tournament play). THe main rugby schools in QLD seemed to decided to back the establishment's academy program and not make their players eligible for the schools tournament.

An Australian Barbarians squad will be picked from the schools tournament next week and they will play Samoa later this year. As always, players who stand out in this tournament and that game will have every chance of selection in the academy and Australian 18 team.

Anyone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong with any of the above.

Have they ever chucked a bucket of funding their way?

My understanding was local participants incurred a $600 fee to be involved in Oz champs in years gone by.

 

[RugbyReg]

Have they ever chucked a bucket of funding their way?

My understanding was local participants incurred a $600 fee to be involved in Oz champs in years gone by.

I think it was always pay to play, but subsidized by RA. IT's why ASRU have done so much fundraising this last year or so.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

RA have never really been involved with the schools other than chucking a bunch of funding their way.

That went to running the champs and the touring of the australian team (I believe).

After a review of the schools program last year they thought it best to have an Australian U18 team (I assume as a stepping stone to NRC U19s and then the OzU20s) so the team previously known as the Australian Schoolboys team became the Australian Schools and U18 team (with a RA appointed coach). THat started last year and will seemingly continue from hereon in.

THe RA now funds academies in QLD, NSW, ACT, VIC and WA and those teams play in the National Academy program. This includes schoolboy players plus any school leavers 18 or under.

Those players will fill the majority of the Australian Schools and 18 team later this year. The ASRU decided to continue to run the championships, for the tradition as much as anything (and everything positive that comes with tournament play). THe main rugby schools in QLD seemed to decided to back the establishment's academy program and not make their players eligible for the schools tournament.

An Australian Barbarians squad will be picked from the schools tournament next week and they will play Samoa later this year. As always, players who stand out in this tournament and that game will have every chance of selection in the academy and Australian 18 team.

Anyone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong with any of the above.

Quick question. How deep do these Academies go? As in, are they only at the Aus. Schoolboys/U18s level or do they extend down the ladder to say U16s and 14s.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

I would've thought that if you're good enough and finished school you should play in the U20s.

Combining school kids and non school kids honestly just seems bizarre.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I would've thought that if you're good enough and finished school you should play in the U20s.

Combining school kids and non school kids honestly just seems bizarre.

In some states kids finish HS at 17. Meaning they are effectively younger than their competitors. Additionally, being academies they'd have some degree of tie in with the likes of the Reds and Tahs etc.

 

[Quick Hands]

In some states kids finish HS at 17. Meaning they are effectively younger than their competitors. Additionally, being academies they'd have some degree of tie in with the likes of the Reds and Tahs etc.

Nobody is saying that the academies shouldn't exist, nor that there shouldn't be a club-based pathway for player development. It should be the main pathway as I've always said.

What is being pointed out is the way it has been set up it makes the Australian Schools Championships a lesser event as the best players aren't there. Conversely, rugby league are moving in the other direction and all their best juniors are involved in their Australian Schools Championships. The U/15s Aust RL tournament has just finished in Brisbane and all the best talent in NSW and Qld junior league was there. The Opens RL Schools tournament will be in Canberra July 14-19 and all the best talent will be there. All of these kids will have a direct tie in with an NRL club.

I've always found it frustrating that everything in rugby has to be a binary argument when it's perfectly possible for two things to exist.

 

[Chip kick]

In some states kids finish HS at 17. Meaning they are effectively younger than their competitors. Additionally, being academies they'd have some degree of tie in with the likes of the Reds and Tahs etc.

I thought the reason they made it U18's is because of the touring sides they play in the UK, 2 of the sides they played last year were U19's with the issue being some of the states finish HS at 17.

 

[Quick Hands]

In most sports yes. The school pathway ends with a presentation night, nice plaque, a certificate, perhaps some cake.

Australian Schoolboys rugby team? A bit more prestigious than a piece of cake?

It was the former ARU which did away with club-based junior national teams. We used to pick an U16s Australian team which had an annual match against NZ and we used to pick and U19s Australian team which also played a game against NZ.(which has now become the U20s because of the international competition)

Edit - there may be other sports too that I'm not aware of

Rugby league - Australian schoolboys championships July 14-19 in Canberra. School students only.

U15 schoolboys RL championships just concluded in Brisbane. School students only and an important milestone no doubt for the boys involved in these teams - many if not most currently in NRL junior talent programmes but no doubt some others will be picked up by scouts.

League has one of the best club-based development programmes of any sport and yet they haven't felt the need to do away with schools tournaments. In fact the opposite as the increasing number of students of GPS, CAS and ISA schools in NSW who are now involved in the tournament. Clearly the leaguies don't have the same negative image of school sport as you seem to have.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Nobody is saying that the academies shouldn't exist, nor that there shouldn't be a club-based pathway for player development. It should be the main pathway as I've always said.

What is being pointed out is the way it has been set up it makes the Australian Schools Championships a lesser event as the best players aren't there. Conversely, rugby league are moving in the other direction and all their best juniors are involved in their Australian Schools Championships. The U/15s Aust RL tournament has just finished in Brisbane and all the best talent in NSW and Qld junior league was there. The Opens RL Schools tournament will be in Canberra July 14-19 and all the best talent will be there. All of these kids will have a direct tie in with an NRL club.

I've always found it frustrating that everything in rugby has to be a binary argument when it's perfectly possible for two things to exist.

And all pf out best talent will be competing in the Academy program. What we habe noe is an elite pathway designed for identoficatidentification and development and the other based on participation. Best pf both in my opinion.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Australian Schoolboys rugby team? A bit more prestigious than a piece of cake?

It was the former ARU which did away with club-based junior national teams. We used to pick an U16s Australian team which had an annual match against NZ and we used to pick and U19s Australian team which also played a game against NZ.(which has now become the U20s because of the international competition)



Rugby league - Australian schoolboys championships July 14-19 in Canberra. School students only.

U15 schoolboys RL championships just concluded in Brisbane. School students only and an important milestone no doubt for the boys involved in these teams - many if not most currently in NRL junior talent programmes but no doubt some others will be picked up by scouts.

League has one of the best club-based development programmes of any sport and yet they haven't felt the need to do away with schools tournaments. In fact the opposite as the increasing number of students of GPS, CAS and ISA schools in NSW who are now involved in the tournament. Clearly the leaguies don't have the same negative image of school sport as you seem to have.

The NRL clubs have always used the school system to identify and warehouse talent. You're suggesting thos is some kind of fundamental shift on their behalf. These teams were loaded with contracted players back when I was in school. And I've been out of HS for 15 years.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

In some states kids finish HS at 17. Meaning they are effectively younger than their competitors. Additionally, being academies they'd have some degree of tie in with the likes of the Reds and Tahs etc.

Yeah I understand that, but you also have kids who are 15 playing 1st XV so again the kids who are good enough will be used to playing with kids older than themselves.

I've not taken any interest prior to now, to a newcomer it does seem odd. I understand the argument regarding stopping kids getting poached by league, I'm told quite a few of the boys at my son's school have already been contracted to Easts and Souths.

It'll be interesting to see how this all pans out.