Australian Schoolboys & National Championship 2010

[AussieDominance]

Don't seem to like Tom Connor do you? Exposed? Sides have more than one player in a team. Kings were beaten by Newington and Joeys yes but Tom Connor is not to blame.

Liam Gill is a similar build and look at how well he is still coming along.

 

[qwerty51]

Just for people that don't know players, this video has 4 players in the Aus Schoolboys side:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plJFVrgS6ys

2, 8 and 12 from Newington (black+white) and 9 from Riverview (blue+white)

 

[Lee Grant]

NorthernSon,

Good post but I disagree with this bit:

The posts about the extensive and inclusive NZ selection process highlights why we have been getting our bottoms spanked by NZ too often at Schoolboys and Under 20's.

If you are indicating that Oz Schools get their bottoms spanked too often because the NZ selection processes are superior, I know some Kiwis who would disagree with you. They think they spank us too often not because they have a superior selection system but despite having an inferior one, that is more exclusive than ours is.

A few years ago I was watching a S14 match from NZ prior to a Tahs match at the ground and was talking with a couple of Kiwi guys about schools rugby after I said that I had seen one of the Kiwi S14 players on the screen play here as a schoolboy. When I explained our system they were in awe of what we did and wondered why they couldn't do the same in a much smaller country.

The NZ system may have changed in the last year or two but when we had the chat they said that a boy who went to a lesser school never got the the national tournament, which was a competition for individual schools, not provinces. The schools whose players didn't get to go sent DVDs of their stars to the national schools selectors, but they said the lads who went to the tournament had a big advantage.

One of the Kiwi fellows had been involved in junior rugby in one of the lesser provinces. He said that the provincial officials knew a lot more about the quality of the lads at school in their area than the NZ Schools selectors did, because they were recruiting them for the following year.

They added that their communications with the national guys about including some of their guys were invariably ignored. But they mentioned that even now and then a lad from their area was selected without merit.

When we beat NZ Schools in NZ in 2008 posters on the TSF were saying more or less the same.

The Kiwis were very interested in the NSW CHS concept for their lesser schools. We all know our system is imperfect but at least CHS rep teams get to play against the likes of GPS, IAS, and CAS before the NSW teams are selected. We moan about selections of state teams after these trial games - always have and always will - but at least each boy has a shot at being looked at in a trial, and therefore a shot at being picked for a state, and therefore a shot at playing for Oz Schools.

Not so in NZ - and the odds of someone from WA or Victoria getting selected in the two Oz Schools teams would be a lot longer if we had their school rugby selection system.

But they said that when the kids left school - different story. We had no chance in the IRB junior tournaments most of the time compared to them because their system worked at the provincial level, something we didn't have, and this time the best guys were identified.

Thus, they said, we shouldn't get too excited about beating a NZ Schools team.

 

[barbarian]

Connor has probably exceeded his own expectations when linking with Kings in YR11 and has done very well for himself by playing with a quality pack at school/ GPS and nationals which no doubt has made the pathway to get to this level of representation achievable. His size and approach to physical contests unfortunately were exposed over the GPS season and are likely to hinder his longer term prospects in the 15 man game.

Disagree. I watched 3 Kings games this season and Connor was a standout in all 3. Killingworth was good as well, but I can't see how you can say Connor's approach to physical contests were exposed in the GPS season. He hardly missed any tackles and took numerous pilfers. He isn't a ball-runner, and by no means the greatest schoolboy since sliced bread, but he is certainly deserving of an Aus spot based on what I saw.

 

[Bowside]

You have one problem. Besides the fact that Schoolboys is U18 and the only folks ineligible are those who are no longer attending school, there is no u18 at club level. U17 falls under the BJRU, under 18 is actually u19 in senior clubs.

Thats why i said you reform the club comp so there is U16 and u18 in senior clubs and then pick the combined team from the results at the district carnival for U18.

 

[Doc]

Thats why i said you reform the club comp so there is U16 and u18 in senior clubs and then pick the combined team from the results at the district carnival for U18.

Will piss off every senior club as they will lose funding and the end result will be the same players.

 

[FTS]

Somebody with tonight's results ?

 

[observer]

Fiji 27 CCC 10. 5 trys to 2.

Aussies were leading Samoa around 50-6 when I left with 10 minutes to go

 

[Bowside]

Will piss off every senior club as they will lose funding and the end result will be the same players.

Give them some more funding to cover the costs. I think they would like it as they could send a scout to the under 15 state carnival and try and convince all the best players to play for there club. Its a way of identifying and consolidating talent for the future, especially for the kids who dont go to GPS schools.

 

[NorthernSon]

Disagree. I watched 3 Kings games this season and Connor was a standout in all 3. Killingworth was good as well, but I can't see how you can say Connor's approach to physical contests were exposed in the GPS season. He hardly missed any tackles and took numerous pilfers. He isn't a ball-runner, and by no means the greatest schoolboy since sliced bread, but he is certainly deserving of an Aus spot based on what I saw.

Hmmm, Barbarian and Lee,

I indeed value your opinion, Im sorry if my thoughts about the need for a physical 7 is dominating my thinking, but having played with and watched quality 7's, a physical and more mobile presence is an essential part of the criteria for selection beyond schoolboys.

Without wishing to get into detail, the boy is geared for loose rugby, evident in GPS trials and his future may be in the adult form of 7's, like Liam Gill.

If long term betting was available for potential 7's for Super 15's from Schoolboys over the past season I believe that Killingworth and Goodman would serve a provence well after making their mark in Colts and Club rugby over the next 2-3 years. Hooper is indeed in the Pocock mould and has gradutated with distinction.

 

[Spewn]

They were not the best schoolboy sevens IMO. I think that reputation means too much in selections. We should be discussing others as future senior 7s.

 

[Lee Grant]

Oz Schools 52 Samoan Schools 10

That was a pretty good hit out for Oz: they had too many better players, position for position, than the visitors did and the score was a fair measure of their superiority.

I liked what I saw of 14. Crook. I had seen him on DVD but this was my first look at him at the ground. He didn't get a lot of pill but he had a few gliding, swerving runs that made me sit up – and he's bloody fast: a sub-11 secs track runner. You can see why Oz 7s is interested in him but he looks like a good footie player too; so I'll warrant that we will see him elsewhere but 7s a year or two down the track.

I hardly recognised the other winger 11. F'Sautia as he has grown so much. Last year's 15 y.o. Oz Schools winger has returned a more powerful looking player but is just as elusive. I can see now why folks up north were saying how hard he was to stop as a 13 for BSHS and Qld Ones this year. The Reds have let Crook get away but they had better keep this lad.

13. Hingano had a quiet game for him but he put on a few electric moves and had one a run against the grain of traffic to set up a try. 12. Latinupulu was less noticeable to me but the 9. Donlan, 10. Wylie combo which I said I didn't rate, I now rate, and their replacements, Duchesne and Taumata, respectively were damn fine also. Qlder Taumata is a good all round flyhalf as reported, and is in the To'omua mould. Watch this space.

15. Holland made a few boo-boos though he did some other good things He does not look like a natural fullback, but it's early days.

It's harder to assess the performances of the individual forwards against the opposition; so they will bear watching closer in the curtain raiser next Saturday night. They worked together technically fairly well for a scratch team, but it's fair to say that the tight five will need more mongrel when they play the Kiwis later on.

One forward who stood out for me and always does when I get to see him play was 4. Browning. He is too short to be a 2nd rower even in schools rugby but he had to be in the team somewhere. What a goer. 8. Luani had some strong runs also; a pity he is lost to our code.

[PS – if anybody wants to make comments on the players and are referring to their programme - some players' jersey numbers in the programme were wrong and some players listed as reserves started the game - and vice versa.]

Curtain raiser

I saw CCC play Samoa last week but nobody took my eye. Tonight I liked the looks of 7. Del More, 12. Davis and reserve 9. Merlino.

 

[Lee Grant]

Hmmm, Barbarian and Lee. Im sorry if my thoughts about the need for a physical 7 is dominating my thinking

I can't recall that I commented on your opinion of 7s.

 

[observer]

Oz Schools 52 Samoan Schools 10

I liked what I saw of 14. Crook. I had seen him on DVD but this was my first look at him at the ground. He didn't get a lot of pill but he had a few gliding, swerving runs that made me sit up – and he's bloody fast: a sub-11 secs track runner. You can see why Oz 7s is interested in him but he looks like a good footie player too; so I'll warrant that we will see him elsewhere but 7s a year or two down the track.


15. Holland made a few boo-boos though he did some other good things He does not look like a natural fullback, but it's early days.

.][/I]

Crook played well. Indeed if he had been fed the ball on two occasions I recall, he may have scored trys. He may have a bit of the X factor if they played him at fullback. I wonder why they wont give him a shot there? Perhaps they have pidgeon-holed him because of his sub-11 sec 100m time?

 

[observer]

We are well of for 9's and 10's. I was impressed by all. Really like the look of Wylie - great passing and kicking game. Fed his backline well.

I also thought Hingano played a great game. Gee the boy is strong. He would have made a difference to Auggies last Monday for sure. Luani was my man of the match. They threw him the ball and said,"run boy", and boy he did! Many times.

 

[PeterPiper]

What chance for Ingate to make the tour. I think he and F'sautia in the centre would be dynamic. Also agree for Crook at 15, he has that impact ability.

 

[Lee Grant]

observer
I was told that Crook has played fullback for TSS but whether it was starting games there or being moved there during a game I can't remember. If Luke Morahan could play fullback after he left school, this lad could whilst still there. They are similar players.


PP
There will be a couple of lads from the Oz A team added to the Ones for the tour plus others if there have been injuries or someone's had bad form. But looking ahead to the NZ test they won't make two changes in the midfield as you suggested, though anything could happen in a lead up game.

I wouldn't replace Hingano for Ingate; no way, as much as I admire the Kings lad. If I were to make one change between the Oz Ones and Oz Twos backlines based on watching both teams play one game each I would replace Ones fullback Holland with Keary. But you don't do that kind of thing in a 2 game domestic series. It could happen on the tour though.

The problems for Ingate's touring chances are that he's not even the highest ranked 13 in the Oz A team, that they''re not touring with a cast of thousands and that fullback Holland is really a 13 himself. Even if he gets moved from the fullback spot for the 'test' match, Holland would be handy to cover there and the midfield from the bench.

Not to the point: but I didn't think that 2nd half replacement winger Petaia was up to much

 

[Upright]

We are well of for 9's and 10's. I was impressed by all. Really like the look of Wylie - great passing and kicking game. Fed his backline well.

I also thought Hingano played a great game. Gee the boy is strong. He would have made a difference to Auggies last Monday for sure. Luani was my man of the match. They threw him the ball and said,"run boy", and boy he did! Many times.

Agree that Luani was MOM - he did all that was required, Unfortunate he is off to League but he may come back. As for the halves i would hold judgement. All halves look good when the forwards are dominating. Of those on show last night Dion Taumata looked the best in all aspects in particular when called on to tackle an area I think Whylie needs to sharpen up on. Also uncertain about 12/13 combo to much of a sameness about them. As for the forwards hard to say as the opposition wasn't particularly threatening. Overall an entertaining display without anyone sensational on show. Good luck to all who get the trip to NZ

 

[catchpole]

Lee,

My lasting impression of last night's game was that the character of the backline changed when Ed Wylie was subbed off at half time for the other flyhalf and other changes were instigated.

It wasn't necssarily that either Flyhalf was better or worse, simply that it was a different style of feeding the centers and outside backs. This fundamental difference in style of play by the Flyhalfs was compounded as the Samoan team became more weary and their defensive pattern deteriorated as the game progressed.

In my opinion in the 2nd half the centers adopted a far more physical and orthodox approach to running the ball whereas in the 1st half Wylie was throwing his passes for the centers into holes or managing more complex plays. I am a big Ed Wylie fan of the way he cleverly uses his options and varies his play.

I am not aware of the substitution policy but it appeared that all squad members received plenty of game time. I am aware that Ed Wylie is recovering from a shoulder injury received at the National Championships in Brisbane in July as he played the last two GPS Rounds in the TKS 3rd XV in an attempt to nurse his injured shoulder back to a workable strength.

 

[Upright]

Lee,

My lasting impression of last night's game was that the character of the backline changed when Ed Wylie was subbed off at half time for the other flyhalf and other changes were instigated.

It wasn't necssarily that either Flyhalf was better or worse, simply that it was a different style of feeding the centers and outside backs. This fundamental difference in style of play by the Flyhalfs was compounded as the Samoan team became more weary and their defensive pattern deteriorated as the game progressed.

In my opinion in the 2nd half the centers adopted a far more physical and orthodox approach to running the ball whereas in the 1st half Wylie was throwing his passes for the centers into holes or managing more complex plays. I am a big Ed Wylie fan of the way he cleverly uses his options and varies his play.

I am not aware of the substitution policy but it appeared that all squad members received plenty of game time. I am aware that Ed Wylie is recovering from a shoulder injury received at the National Championships in Brisbane in July as he played the last two GPS Rounds in the TKS 3rd XV in an attempt to nurse his injured shoulder back to a workable strength.

If as you say he is recovering from a shoulder injury then that may explain why he appears tentative in contact. I agree his passing is crisp. However based on last night and with an expectation that the NZ boys will be significantly more competitive than either Samoa or Fij then I would go for Taumata at 10. Don't know either of them by the way, so no bias involved.