Australian Rugby / RA

[Highlander35]

I mean, if the revenues you gain from hosting France (or any other team) aren't good enough you stop hosting them.

That's the consequence

 

[JRugby2]

Well that's the thing -

If the tours are organised well in advance of the teams being named or tickets going on sale - even with the French announcing their intention to leave behind anyone involved in Top14 finals nearly a year out from the NZ tour - by that point contracts are signed and agreements in place for it to happen regardless.

It's severely diminished the ability for NZ to market the tour with the assumption being it'll likely be another 3-0 sweep against second and third stringers that nobody in NZ has heard of.

So maybe they do see reduced revenues, but it's impossible to predict at the time the tours are being negotiated.

 

[Braveheart81]

It's severely diminished the ability for NZ to market the tour with the assumption being it'll likely be another 3-0 sweep against second and third stringers that nobody in NZ has heard of.

Has it?

Until France gets belted in one of these series it's hard to argue that they're sending out teams that aren't competitive.

Also, which New Zealand fans are only buying tickets on the basis of star players in the opposition? Seems like a stretch to suggest that the French stars are major marketing tools for NZRU.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Much as I want to hate on them for sending out the reserves, they probably kept the game afloat here by turning up in 2021, with a COVID quarantine and all.

Three very fun games and what I thought was a great initiative playing one of them on a Tuesday night which we appear to have completely turned our backs on

 

[Dctarget]

Also, which New Zealand fans are only buying tickets on the basis of star players in the opposition? Seems like a stretch to suggest that the French stars are major marketing tools for NZRU.

From a financial point of view it probably doesn't change much but it's boring and not fun.

I wanna see Dupont go up against the newbie Roigard. Ntamack against McKenzie.

Or for instance I think Jelonch is slept on and is in conversation for World XV. But we won't get to see him go up against Savea.

 

[JRugby2]

Absolutely they are marketing tools for selling tickets, and DCTarget's comment is a perfect example of this - fans will want to see those match ups.

 

[Wallaby Man]

Absolutely they are marketing tools for selling tickets, and DCTarget's comment is a perfect example of this - fans will want to see those match ups.

Outside the super diehards I don’t think it’s a ticket seller to have the names or not. In fact I’d say one thing rugby struggles with is creating stars.

We just had a 1.5 not quite a B team here for the Welsh series and nobody seemed to care. Boks have sent B squads to Aus and NZ in recent times and nobody cared. Because rugby is quite myopic the marketing is almost squarely on the locals. The only team that moves the needle in any country is the ABs. The knowledge of players outside local comps is broadly shocking.

 

[Tomthumb]

Whether or not it is an issue financially, it’s certainly an issue from a sporting and integrity perspective

The fact a guy like Dupont has never played in the Southern Hemisphere isn’t good for world rugby

 

[JRugby2]

Outside the super diehards I don’t think it’s a ticket seller to have the names or not. In fact I’d say one thing rugby struggles with is creating stars.

We just had a 1.5 not quite a B team here for the Welsh series and nobody seemed to care. Boks have sent B squads to Aus and NZ in recent times and nobody cared. Because rugby is quite myopic the marketing is almost squarely on the locals. The only team that moves the needle in any country is the ABs. The knowledge of players outside local comps is broadly shocking.

I'd say it's the opposite. The diehards will attend regardless but the more casual fan who is aware of global players and excited to see them in the flesh would save their money. And with rugby's popularity scores going backwards I'd hypothesis as time goes on we have more and more who'd fall into that camp.

I'd also disagree with your last point - awareness of global stars is arguably as high as it's ever been thanks to social media and our insatiable desire for news and content. Having full strength touring sides is important and no doubt it will impact the bottom line of tours, if not now but definitely into the future

 

[Wallaby Man]

I'd say it's the opposite. The diehards will attend regardless but the more casual fan who is aware of global players and excited to see them in the flesh would save their money. And with rugby's popularity scores going backwards I'd hypothesis as time goes on we have more and more who'd fall into that camp.

I'd also disagree with your last point - awareness of global stars is arguably as high as it's ever been thanks to social media and our insatiable desire for news and content. Having full strength touring sides is important and no doubt it will impact the bottom line of tours, if not now but definitely into the future

That’s the thing, I don’t think a casual supporter has the slightest clue of any international stars. There is almost zero penetration of overseas leagues or genuine global stars like cricket, basketball etc have. For instance I would be surprised if you interviewed 1000 on the streets of London who Eben Etzebeth was, if 30 people could answer correctly. Or streets of Sydney who Dupont was etc. all stars are in my eyes are essentially domestic based with some small deviation outside their own market with the hardcore supporters of rugby.

 

[Braveheart81]

Whether or not it is an issue financially, it’s certainly an issue from a sporting and integrity perspective

The fact a guy like Dupont has never played in the Southern Hemisphere isn’t good for world rugby

It's not but I think until those touring sides aren't competitive it's hard to place too much blame on the FFR.

The top 14 final is scheduled for the last weekend of June and then the first test is two weekends later on the other side of the world. From a player welfare perspective I think it is pretty reasonable to want to rest the players participating in that match. When you do have good depth there's also the question of whether a player who is not quite as good but will have a much better preparation is going to outperform a player who is short on prep and just played in a big final.

I'd say it's the opposite. The diehards will attend regardless but the more casual fan who is aware of global players and excited to see them in the flesh would save their money. And with rugby's popularity scores going backwards I'd hypothesis as time goes on we have more and more who'd fall into that camp.

When the French squad to tour Australia in 2021 was announced there was consternation in media here about various players not being selected. Half of those players were basically out of the side at that point.

Someone like Dupont probably transcends that but in general, the knowledge of opposition teams is terrible. The average punter is generally a long way behind in who the current star players are. I swear in 2021 there were people annoyed that Thierry Dusautoir wasn't touring even though he retired four years earlier.

 

[Tomthumb]

It's not but I think until those touring sides aren't competitive it's hard to place too much blame on the FFR.

The top 14 final is scheduled for the last weekend of June and then the first test is two weekends later on the other side of the world. From a player welfare perspective I think it is pretty reasonable to want to rest the players participating in that match. When you do have good depth there's also the question of whether a player who is not quite as good but will have a much better preparation is going to outperform a player who is short on prep and just played in a big final.

Surely they can move the top 14 schedule a couple of weeks? The fact they won’t even entertain these things is more proof French rugby doesn’t give a monkeys about World Rugby and why we should take their opinions and do the exact opposite

 

[Braveheart81]

Surely they can move the top 14 schedule a couple of weeks? The fact they won’t even entertain these things is more proof French rugby doesn’t give a monkeys about World Rugby and why we should take their opinions and do the exact opposite

I think it is more a case of the Top 14 being so rich and powerful that the FFR is largely beholden to them.

 

[PhilClinton]

Three very fun games and what I thought was a great initiative playing one of them on a Tuesday night which we appear to have completely turned our backs on

I wonder what the viewership would be like for a Monday or Tuesday night RC test during the crossover period of NRL/AFL finals.

You’d have to assume in person attendance would be quite bad, but it’s not like the test matches played on the weekend are selling out instantly either. Potentially something for a once a year regional test match - $20 tickets in Townsville or Wollongong but the real focus would be on generating TV viewership during what is a congested time of year.

 

[Tomthumb]

I think it is more a case of the Top 14 being so rich and powerful that the FFR is largely beholden to them.

Yeah but the fact there is zero public resistance from the union or players like Dupont to this nonsense makes them complicit IMO

They are big tough guys when it comes to criticism of World Rugby, cowards when it comes to the clubs. They’re a joke

 

[Omar Comin']

Surely they can move the top 14 schedule a couple of weeks? The fact they won’t even entertain these things is more proof French rugby doesn’t give a monkeys about World Rugby and why we should take their opinions and do the exact opposite

French rugby has arguably been THE primary driver of growth in international rugby due to the fact it's club competitions are so open to foreign players. All the top emerging/tier 2 nations would be significantly weaker without it and Argentina likely would never have got to where they are without it.

We in Australia and NZ should look at their Top 14 with envy.

 

[PhilClinton]

French rugby has arguably been THE primary driver of growth in international rugby due to the fact it's club competitions are so open to foreign players. All the top emerging/tier 2 nations would be significantly weaker without it and Argentina likely would never have got to where they are without it.

We in Australia and NZ should look at their Top 14 with envy.

So holding pacific island nation players hostage and not allowing them to play for their national sides is seen as a good thing now?

 

[Tomthumb]

French rugby has arguably been THE primary driver of growth in international rugby due to the fact it's club competitions are so open to foreign players. All the top emerging/tier 2 nations would be significantly weaker without it and Argentina likely would never have got to where they are without it.

We in Australia and NZ should look at their Top 14 with envy.

What does this have to do with them being unwilling to move the competition 2 weeks to accommodate Test Rugby? They actively discourage players from playing test rugby. Primary driver my ass

And by your logic the world should envy Super rugby due to the Drua and Jaguars?

 

[Omar Comin']

So holding pacific island nation players hostage and not allowing them to play for their national sides is seen as a good thing now?

Hostage? They get paid well to play in the top club league in the world. Before the Drua it was the only top level professional opportunities many of them had. They could be semi-pro or amateur and play for Fiji, or play professionally in Super Rugby etc but not play for Fiji (because all the other club competitions have very few spots for players not eligible for the nation of those clubs).

Fiji have become a genuine threat at test level because their best players can play at the highest level and still represent Fiji.

 

[Tomthumb]

Hostage? They get paid well to play in the top club league in the world. Before the Drua it was the only top level professional opportunities many of them had. They could be semi-pro or amateur and play for Fiji, or play professionally in Super Rugby etc but not play for Fiji (because all the other club competitions have very few spots for players not eligible for the nation of those clubs).

Fiji have become a genuine threat at test level because their best players can play at the highest level and still represent Fiji.

Only 2 players in Fiji's most recent 30 man squad play in France. 24 play Super Rugby