Australian Rugby / RA

[Bullrush]

Their statement is (like most of the others against the trial) all over the place.



So they haven't got enough red card data to make an informed decision from the trials that have happened so far? That's why you now have a larger trial! The fact that the trials so far haven't provided any evidence to support their concerns is a clear reason to expand the trial.



They have no evidence that this is the case but are against the expansion of the trial on the basis that they think this is a risk? This to me falls into the same sort of ludicrous, slippery slope arguments as we had a few years ago when making what people considered "rugby incidents" or "tackles gone slightly wrong" potential red cards would lead to the game turning into touch football.

And it goes directly against at least one of the reasons that Nigel Owen stated for why he was against it - that it didn't seem to change player behaviour.

 

[WoodysRFC]

Fuck the French, would prefer Aus and NZ stopped dealing with them all together, the revenue they make from hosting us only for them to fuck us and the Pacific Islands over in return.

 

[Dctarget]

Why are they so firmly against it? It's not a particularly huge change.

 

[PhilClinton]

Why are they so firmly against it? It's not a particularly huge change.

As noted by a few people, their arguments are totally all over the shop.

One of the main points they raise is they believe players will be encouraged to be violent or more aggressive because they know their team is only going to be impacted for 20mins.

To me, that is nonsensical because it doesn't factor in the suspension the player receives due to foul play, which isn't changing.

In terms of why they really care about it, who knows.

 

[JRugby2]

Why are they so firmly against it? It's not a particularly huge change.

Has anyone looked at their recent win percentage with an opposition red card vs without one (I haven't, pure speculation)

 

[JRugby2]

Fuck the French, would prefer Aus and NZ stopped dealing with them all together, the revenue they make from hosting us only for them to fuck us and the Pacific Islands over in return.

You'd have to hope there would be some consequence for sending down B-sides to Australia and next year to NZ on their recent tours.

Although on the other hand, I'm unsure how that would impact us - especially with the emergence of NZ and RSA tours from 2026, a full strength French tour to Aus would surely have appeal.

 

[Highlander35]

I mean, if the revenues you gain from hosting France (or any other team) aren't good enough you stop hosting them.

That's the consequence

 

[JRugby2]

Well that's the thing -

If the tours are organised well in advance of the teams being named or tickets going on sale - even with the French announcing their intention to leave behind anyone involved in Top14 finals nearly a year out from the NZ tour - by that point contracts are signed and agreements in place for it to happen regardless.

It's severely diminished the ability for NZ to market the tour with the assumption being it'll likely be another 3-0 sweep against second and third stringers that nobody in NZ has heard of.

So maybe they do see reduced revenues, but it's impossible to predict at the time the tours are being negotiated.

 

[Braveheart81]

It's severely diminished the ability for NZ to market the tour with the assumption being it'll likely be another 3-0 sweep against second and third stringers that nobody in NZ has heard of.

Has it?

Until France gets belted in one of these series it's hard to argue that they're sending out teams that aren't competitive.

Also, which New Zealand fans are only buying tickets on the basis of star players in the opposition? Seems like a stretch to suggest that the French stars are major marketing tools for NZRU.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Much as I want to hate on them for sending out the reserves, they probably kept the game afloat here by turning up in 2021, with a COVID quarantine and all.

Three very fun games and what I thought was a great initiative playing one of them on a Tuesday night which we appear to have completely turned our backs on

 

[Dctarget]

Also, which New Zealand fans are only buying tickets on the basis of star players in the opposition? Seems like a stretch to suggest that the French stars are major marketing tools for NZRU.

From a financial point of view it probably doesn't change much but it's boring and not fun.

I wanna see Dupont go up against the newbie Roigard. Ntamack against McKenzie.

Or for instance I think Jelonch is slept on and is in conversation for World XV. But we won't get to see him go up against Savea.

 

[JRugby2]

Absolutely they are marketing tools for selling tickets, and DCTarget's comment is a perfect example of this - fans will want to see those match ups.

 

[Wallaby Man]

Absolutely they are marketing tools for selling tickets, and DCTarget's comment is a perfect example of this - fans will want to see those match ups.

Outside the super diehards I don’t think it’s a ticket seller to have the names or not. In fact I’d say one thing rugby struggles with is creating stars.

We just had a 1.5 not quite a B team here for the Welsh series and nobody seemed to care. Boks have sent B squads to Aus and NZ in recent times and nobody cared. Because rugby is quite myopic the marketing is almost squarely on the locals. The only team that moves the needle in any country is the ABs. The knowledge of players outside local comps is broadly shocking.

 

[Tomthumb]

Whether or not it is an issue financially, it’s certainly an issue from a sporting and integrity perspective

The fact a guy like Dupont has never played in the Southern Hemisphere isn’t good for world rugby

 

[JRugby2]

Outside the super diehards I don’t think it’s a ticket seller to have the names or not. In fact I’d say one thing rugby struggles with is creating stars.

We just had a 1.5 not quite a B team here for the Welsh series and nobody seemed to care. Boks have sent B squads to Aus and NZ in recent times and nobody cared. Because rugby is quite myopic the marketing is almost squarely on the locals. The only team that moves the needle in any country is the ABs. The knowledge of players outside local comps is broadly shocking.

I'd say it's the opposite. The diehards will attend regardless but the more casual fan who is aware of global players and excited to see them in the flesh would save their money. And with rugby's popularity scores going backwards I'd hypothesis as time goes on we have more and more who'd fall into that camp.

I'd also disagree with your last point - awareness of global stars is arguably as high as it's ever been thanks to social media and our insatiable desire for news and content. Having full strength touring sides is important and no doubt it will impact the bottom line of tours, if not now but definitely into the future

 

[Wallaby Man]

I'd say it's the opposite. The diehards will attend regardless but the more casual fan who is aware of global players and excited to see them in the flesh would save their money. And with rugby's popularity scores going backwards I'd hypothesis as time goes on we have more and more who'd fall into that camp.

I'd also disagree with your last point - awareness of global stars is arguably as high as it's ever been thanks to social media and our insatiable desire for news and content. Having full strength touring sides is important and no doubt it will impact the bottom line of tours, if not now but definitely into the future

That’s the thing, I don’t think a casual supporter has the slightest clue of any international stars. There is almost zero penetration of overseas leagues or genuine global stars like cricket, basketball etc have. For instance I would be surprised if you interviewed 1000 on the streets of London who Eben Etzebeth was, if 30 people could answer correctly. Or streets of Sydney who Dupont was etc. all stars are in my eyes are essentially domestic based with some small deviation outside their own market with the hardcore supporters of rugby.

 

[Braveheart81]

Whether or not it is an issue financially, it’s certainly an issue from a sporting and integrity perspective

The fact a guy like Dupont has never played in the Southern Hemisphere isn’t good for world rugby

It's not but I think until those touring sides aren't competitive it's hard to place too much blame on the FFR.

The top 14 final is scheduled for the last weekend of June and then the first test is two weekends later on the other side of the world. From a player welfare perspective I think it is pretty reasonable to want to rest the players participating in that match. When you do have good depth there's also the question of whether a player who is not quite as good but will have a much better preparation is going to outperform a player who is short on prep and just played in a big final.

I'd say it's the opposite. The diehards will attend regardless but the more casual fan who is aware of global players and excited to see them in the flesh would save their money. And with rugby's popularity scores going backwards I'd hypothesis as time goes on we have more and more who'd fall into that camp.

When the French squad to tour Australia in 2021 was announced there was consternation in media here about various players not being selected. Half of those players were basically out of the side at that point.

Someone like Dupont probably transcends that but in general, the knowledge of opposition teams is terrible. The average punter is generally a long way behind in who the current star players are. I swear in 2021 there were people annoyed that Thierry Dusautoir wasn't touring even though he retired four years earlier.

 

[Rhino_rugby]

It's not but I think until those touring sides aren't competitive it's hard to place too much blame on the FFR.

The top 14 final is scheduled for the last weekend of June and then the first test is two weekends later on the other side of the world. From a player welfare perspective I think it is pretty reasonable to want to rest the players participating in that match. When you do have good depth there's also the question of whether a player who is not quite as good but will have a much better preparation is going to outperform a player who is short on prep and just played in a big final.

You're right—it’s tough to fault the FFR when the touring sides remain competitive. With the Top 14 final scheduled so close to the first test, resting players who just competed in a major match makes sense from a welfare perspective. When depth is strong, sometimes a well-prepared player with more rest can outperform a top player who's had little recovery time after a big final. Balancing readiness and talent is key.

 

[Rhino_rugby]

When the French squad to tour Australia in 2021 was announced there was consternation in media here about various players not being selected. Half of those players were basically out of the side at that point.

Someone like Dupont probably transcends that but in general, the knowledge of opposition teams is terrible. The average punter is generally a long way behind in who the current star players are. I swear in 2021 there were people annoyed that Thierry Dusautoir wasn't touring even though he retired four years earlier.

It’s true—when the French squad for the 2021 Australia tour was announced, some media reactions seemed out of touch. Many of the unselected players were already out of the mix. While someone like Dupont is widely recognized, overall knowledge of opposition teams, especially by casual fans, is often lacking. It’s funny, but not surprising, that some were upset Thierry Dusautoir wasn’t included, despite his retirement in 2017! There’s a real gap in awareness when it comes to keeping up with current stars.

 

[Tomthumb]

It's not but I think until those touring sides aren't competitive it's hard to place too much blame on the FFR.

The top 14 final is scheduled for the last weekend of June and then the first test is two weekends later on the other side of the world. From a player welfare perspective I think it is pretty reasonable to want to rest the players participating in that match. When you do have good depth there's also the question of whether a player who is not quite as good but will have a much better preparation is going to outperform a player who is short on prep and just played in a big final.

Surely they can move the top 14 schedule a couple of weeks? The fact they won’t even entertain these things is more proof French rugby doesn’t give a monkeys about World Rugby and why we should take their opinions and do the exact opposite