Australian Rugby / RA

[stillmissit]

How about the realities of business? These guys were playing for a franchise that was millions of dollars in debt. Treated like shit? They have another year worth of income guaranteed, that's a shit-load better than most people who get made redundant.

These guys knew from the start of the season that their jobs in Melbourne were in jeopardy. One thing that would have made it hard for RA to cut Melbourne would have been these guys winning games. The reality of this professional sport is that some of these players aren't up to the required standard of this competition and the size of the job market was unsustainable.

I suspect the reason some of these players don't want to go to Sydney or Perth is that they are being paid to sit on their arses for a year.

 

[stillmissit]

It's the players who have the option of playing Super Rugby but opt not to that I would have problems with.

Any future contract will certainly contain some wording to cover this scenario. If it was me as employer it would be 'here is an offer within RA or this is the redundancy'.

 

[stillmissit]

There's a list of 11 players we've been talking about, some who would be on something like the base super rugby contract (I think that's set at around $60k). Family is also a very real concern for some of these guys - Salakaia-Loto reportedly left Northampton early because his partner was homesick, how keen do you think she will be for another new city in 3 years if it's not where her family are? Particularly if he's only on a single year contract to see out his current one?

The article describes a set of reasons these players have for knocking back the tahs initial offer, that doesn't mean they necessarily apply to all of them. They are all very real concerns across this playing group and something the tahs will have to overcome if they want to get any of these players to Sydney. To ignore

Hi Wilson 60k is that correct? if it is ignore my post regarding sitting on their collective arses. That may well be as cheap as redundancy.

 

[Wilson]

Hi Wilson 60k is that correct? if it is ignore my post regarding sitting on their collective arses. That may well be as cheap as redundancy.

I'm not 100% on it and I can't find a source but it's the number I have in my head (maybe $67k). That could be a bit out of date now though.

Edit: It looks like it's now $85k (as of 2023):

The Waratahs said they were in discussions with Tuipulotu and were keen to keep him in sky blue. But given a base Super Rugby contract is worth $85,000 a year and the former St Kevins’ student is sitting behind Test-capped centres Lalakai Foketi and Izaia Perese, staying put could require a leap of faith.

The uncapped Waratah mulling a $225k a year offer from Scotland

Mosese Tuipulotu is set to earn his first Super Rugby cap this weekend but he’s already fielding ridiculous offers from the Scottish Rugby Union.

www.smh.com.au

 

[stillmissit]

I'm not 100% on it and I can't find a source but it's the number I have in my head (maybe $67k). That could be a bit out of date now though.

Edit: It looks like it's now $85k (as of 2023):

The uncapped Waratah mulling a $225k a year offer from Scotland

Mosese Tuipulotu is set to earn his first Super Rugby cap this weekend but he’s already fielding ridiculous offers from the Scottish Rugby Union.

www.smh.com.au

Not enough to sit on your arse for.

 

[KOB1987]

There's a list of 11 players we've been talking about, some who would be on something like the base super rugby contract (I think that's set at around $60k). Family is also a very real concern for some of these guys - Salakaia-Loto reportedly left Northampton early because his partner was homesick, how keen do you think she will be for another new city in 3 years if it's not where her family are? Particularly if he's only on a single year contract to see out his current one?

The article describes a set of reasons these players have for knocking back the tahs initial offer, that doesn't mean they necessarily apply to all of them. They are all very real concerns across this playing group and something the tahs will have to overcome if they want to get any of these players to Sydney. To ignore

I'm being taken out of context a bit, I'm not saying any of these issues aren't valid for some players, or that they are valid for all of them. It was an agreement with someone else's comment that there was a bit of irony and inconsistency with what was being reported. All of these things can be overcome sitting around the negotiating table. It sounds like LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) will end up at the Reds anyway, but as an example offer him a longer contract, and he's likely to get a Wallaby top up anyway. When I responded to the comment I specifically had the 3 players who would be priority targets for the Waratahs at the front of my mind, not the ones on the $60k base. OK, I didn't point that out, but I didn't feel like I had to. Over and out.

 

[Highlander35]

Not enough to sit on your arse for.

probably not no.

But depending on your stage of life, being paid $85kpa for 3 Semesters of full time Uni doesn't sound too bad.

 

[stillmissit]

probably not no.

But depending on your stage of life, being paid $85kpa for 3 Semesters of full time Uni doesn't sound too bad.

Good point. Study days are so far behind me that I forget how much any money meant to me..

 

[KOB1987]

probably not no.

But depending on your stage of life, being paid $85kpa for 3 Semesters of full time Uni doesn't sound too bad.

Regardless of stage of life, if you are getting paid that and take the option to sit on your arse then you are also making the decision not to be a professional athlete anymore. If you don't get a contract, sure play club rugby to try to increase your value that way. If you do get offered a contract you would have to either take it or accept a career change. It's a bit different to the Rory Arnold scenario, not that I condone that one either.

 

[Rebel man]

cost of living definitely isn’t the same between the two especially when looking for housing within proximity to the the training facilities of the respective teams
View attachment 19906
View attachment 19907

While I agree it is also over stated we hear this all the time in the AFL. I get rugby is a different market with less in the salary cap and players unlikely to commit to one city for as long.

We always hear Sydney needs COLA (cost of living allowance 10% extra in the salary cap) back. Yet players start out on over 100k a year plus match payments often living with a senior player in their spare room or in a share house rental that the club manages.

Especially with the average AFL salary being at 441k with a 20% pay increase over the next few years they can afford to live in Sydney.

Also as most players do they buy a house then sell when their career is done and come home. If we look at this data published in domain

Players playing in Sydney buying a house and then returning home are actually better off in the long run

 

[Strewthcobber]

Any future contract will certainly contain some wording to cover this scenario. If it was me as employer it would be 'here is an offer within RA or this is the redundancy'.

I don't think it will. The clauses preventing RA from compelling players to move somewhere, and covering contractual payments in the event of a team losing rights to Super Rugby is part of the CBA, and has been in there since professionalism.

RUPA won't ever agree to change it

 

[LeCheese]

While I agree it is also over stated we hear this all the time in the AFL. I get rugby is a different market with less in the salary cap and players unlikely to commit to one city for as long.

We always hear Sydney needs COLA (cost of living allowance 10% extra in the salary cap) back. Yet players start out on over 100k a year plus match payments often living with a senior player in their spare room or in a share house rental that the club manages.

Especially with the average AFL salary being at 441k with a 20% pay increase over the next few years they can afford to live in Sydney.

Also as most players do they buy a house then sell when their career is done and come home. If we look at this data published in domainView attachment 19908
Players playing in Sydney buying a house and then returning home are actually better off in the long run

I think the point is that the relative comparison is within the competition, as opposed to the general public. Using the AFL example, if a player is looking at a salary of 400k in either Sydney or Brisbane, if they're financially driven, they're more likely to choose the one where they get the most bang for their buck. In my eyes, a COLA or adjustment is just as much about creating a more even playing field for the clubs in terms of recruitment / appeal.

 

[Wilson]

I don't think it will. The clauses preventing RA from compelling players to move somewhere, and covering contractual payments in the event of a team losing rights to Super Rugby is part of the CBA, and has been in there since professionalism.

RUPA won't ever agree to change it

Yeah, if this was going to change it would've changed after the Force were cut.

This is not some arcane interpretation of the contracts or hidden loophole no one thought to close, it's a known provision that both sides agreed to and has been used before. Players exercising this right are not acting in bad faith, exploiting unclear terms of their contract or failing to hold up their end of the bargain and RA is well aware of this, and has been for many years and multiple CBAs.

 

[Rebel man]

I think the point is that the relative comparison is within the competition, as opposed to the general public. Using the AFL example, if a player is looking at a salary of 400k in either Sydney or Brisbane, if they're financially driven, they're more likely to choose the one where they get the most bang for their buck. In my eyes, a COLA or adjustment is just as much about creating a more even playing field for the clubs in terms of recruitment / appeal.

Then everyone would want to play in Adelaide as it’s the cheapest market in.

Also if you a Melbourne born player you get drafted to Sydney you come back after a 10 year career and the house you have purchased in Sydney has out performed the market that you are returning to by 11%. On top of that the Swans are one of the most valuable brands for endorsements as you are known in Melbourne and Sydney.

 

[Adam84]

I do agree that a player who bought a house in Sydney 14 years ago is better off in the long run. What's that expression though, 'Past performance is no guarantee of future results", if those players can even afford to buy these days.

If you start correlating those median house prices against the average salary of a Super Rugby players over the past decade, it paints a bleak picture for emerging players today. That's a nationwide housing issue, but the problem is certainly exacerbated in Sydney.

 

[Wilson]

Dove Men+Care have come on board as a wallabies sponsor through 2027:

Dove Men+Care gets on board with the Wallabies

www.rugby.com.au

I expect we'll be seeing more deals signed in the coming months as momentum towards the Lions builds. Great bonus from having the world cup on the horizon too, the recent run of deals have all been through to 2027 at least.

 

[Braveheart81]

In my eyes, a COLA or adjustment is just as much about creating a more even playing field for the clubs in terms of recruitment / appeal.

I agree and eventually it was scrapped because Brisbane and Sydney were no longer uncompetitive. They didn't need additional cash to entice players to join them.

It's seemingly coming back as part of a soft cap adjustment (can be spent on things other than players) which is very much cost of living related to allow specific teams to spend more money paying coaches.

GWS has an assistant coach living in a caravan park and the Swans have an assistant coach commuting from the Central Coast. Given their ages they generally have families and are from interstate and the pay isn't good enough to warrant relocating the entire family.

 

[SouthernX]

one thing that needs be factored in about cost of living comparing Melbourne to Sydney is the traffic of victorians to Brisbane I imagine is rather higher then Melbourne to Sydney.

I suspect some Brisbane players might have been staying with relatives when in Melbourne.

Happy to be proved otherwise if this is not the case.

 

[Rebel man]

I do agree that a player who bought a house in Sydney 14 years ago is better off in the long run. What's that expression though, 'Past performance is no guarantee of future results", if those players can even afford to buy these days.

If you start correlating those median house prices against the average salary of a Super Rugby players over the past decade, it paints a bleak picture for emerging players today. That's a nationwide housing issue, but the problem is certainly exacerbated in Sydney.

It is not an issue for AFL players, the next CBA will take the average earnings to 520k that excludes the fringe benefits like free cars from a sponsor, free furniture from a sponsor and all other endorsement income.

Even if Sydney’s housing stops out performing the rest of the nations from a growth perspective the chance that you will make a loss compared to other markets is slim

 

[Wilson]

The future of Australian rugby is secure:

Major changes are afoot for the Pococks. With their small border collie, mini poodle-cross Bronte, the pair playfully declare themselves DILDOs (double-income little dog owners).

But soon they will add one more, with the arrival of a child in November. Accepting the congratulations, David jokes: “Thanks, we had unprotected sex.”

Bleeding knees, burning abs: I spent a week living like David Pocock. It nearly killed me

How does Canberra’s most shredded politician stay fit? Angus Thompson underwent five days of pain involving heavy weights, burning abs – and a winter dip in frigid waters.

www.smh.com.au