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Australian Rugby / RA

Dan54

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Rebel man said:
Mate look how long the French season is, they are also far better than the wallabies
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Agreed mate, but also I think you will find they have employ and awful lot of quality players from oversea to be able to have a worthwhile comp.
 
S

Steve_Grey

Darby Loudon (17)
Dan54 said:
Agreed mate, but also I think you will find they have employ and awful lot of quality players from oversea to be able to have a worthwhile comp.
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Whole of Europe plays close to double the number of games the Aus Super Rugby Teams play - there are 35 players in each AU Super Rugby Team? I looked at a couple of the English teams - and they have around 40 squad numbers, but that also includes their Elite Academy players - and those players who are not regulars play in the English 2nd Tier for experience.

There are also more Academy players in the English system, as each English Club [10 in the Premiership] has its own Academy - and they are far more realistic in who they recruit, and their positions - rather than say one player per position [which seems the Waratahs Academy approach] many English Clubs will have 5 or 6 back row Academy players as they know that is a super competitive role, and simply having one Academy #7 [for example] is too limiting.
 
Tazzmania

Tazzmania

Bob Loudon (25)
Out of interest as per 2020 these were the top twenty countries number of registered players:

20. Russia: 25,558
19. Canada: 27,512
18. Madagascar: 34,393
17. Spain: 34,822
16. China: 35,361
15. Scotland: 49,265
14. Kenya: 50,541
13. Sri Lanka: 53,282
12th. Wales: 83,120
11th. Italy: 87,211
10th. Ireland: 101,922
9th. Argentinas: 105,151
8th. Japans: 105,693
7th. USA: 119,682
6th. Fiji: 122,453
5th. New Zealand: 150,727
4th. Australia: 230,753
3rd. England: 382,154
2nd. South Africa: 405,438
1st. France: 542,242
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Our issue is all about timing.

You effectively don't have test players available from July onwards so your competition needs to finish before then.

The advantage the Northern Hemisphere comps have is that with a season running from approximately August to May with the two test windows being in October/November (End of year tour) and February/March (6 Nations) means there are no issues with player availability for the finals.
 
S

Steve_Grey

Darby Loudon (17)
At least SA are staying in the Rugby Championship for now - if the National Team followed in their Super Rugby teams' footsteps that would be a problem.
 
hoggy

hoggy

Nev Cottrell (35)
Braveheart81 said:
Our issue is all about timing.

You effectively don't have test players available from July onwards so your competition needs to finish before then.

The advantage the Northern Hemisphere comps have is that with a season running from approximately August to May with the two test windows being in October/November (End of year tour) and February/March (6 Nations) means there are no issues with player availability for the finals.
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Then maybe the game needs to look at the Test Window schedule, because not have players available from July essentially prevents you from producing an attractive domestic competition.

This prevents the game from growing a better domestic support base, that is fine if Test matches can support the code, which it clearly cannot do.
 
S

Steve_Grey

Darby Loudon (17)
hoggy said:
Then maybe the game needs to look at the Test Window schedule, because not have players available from July essentially prevents you from producing an attractive domestic competition.

This prevents the game from growing a better domestic support base, that is fine if Test matches can support the code, which it clearly cannot do.
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It's only AUS that don't manage it - NZ manage it and then go into their NPC, SA play domestic rugby successfully in Europe (best decision they made), and Argentinian players already play in Europe.
 
hoggy

hoggy

Nev Cottrell (35)
Steve_Grey said:
It's only AUS that don't manage it - NZ manage it and then go into their NPC, SA play domestic rugby successfully in Europe (best decision they made), and Argentinian players already play in Europe.
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Yes, but Rugby Union is far more entrenched than in Australia, where we are at best 4-5th most popular sport.

Without domestic growth, It doesn't matter how many Test matches you play if no one is watching them.
 
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Proud Pig

Proud Pig

Tom Lawton (22)
The one thing that makes Australia almost unsustainable is the fact that we another dominant RUGBY code drawing our fan base. If you are a Rugby fan anywhere other than Australia then you are watching Rugby Union. Speaking from experience here as I grew up in London where obviously football is king. My whole family and all my friends growing up loved football, was the number one sport with most, but we also followed Rugby and in 90% of England that means Rugby Union. A lot of people will follow more than one sport but the anomaly we face is that Rugby Union has a far more successful cousin on doorstep. This does not happen anywhere else in the world, everywhere else the dominant sport is either RU (NZ and SA) or football, a significantly different game. In Australia if you want to follow Rugby or have an interest in it the dominant Rugby game is League. This means that from a young age the blanket coverage in the media of a Rugby game is league. You cannot win the hearts and minds of the kids coming through if they don't see the game constantly playing out in the media. So straight away RU is on the back foot in Australia. In WA Rugby Union is probably the number two sport. However, it is hard to argue that it is better than number three anywhere else including Qld and NSW, AFL still gets far larger crowds in Sydney and Brisbane than RU.

The key issue here is finances. The majority of people can only afford to financially follow one sport meaning the dominate sport in each region gets the majority of the money. As you reach the higher economic earners you may see a financial following in more than one sport but that is a low number that can afford it and the number of people gets less at each level of popularity. This is becoming even more pronounced as the cost of living is going up. There is only so much money available for people to spend on their entertainment and as the third string sport the amount available to RU is very small.

We cannot compete with other countries and we cannot compete with the other sports in Australia, we have to stop pretending we can or we will see the end of the professional game in this country. Melbourne Rebels are just the tip of the iceberg, the Tahs got bailed out by RA they are losing money hand over fist. The Brumbies are successful on the field but can't make a profit. It seems like the Reds maybe just breaking even and the Force are propped up by a Billionaire's generosity, it would only take a downturn in the global economy or a change to Australia's tax laws for that to disappear. The game cannot continue to spend the way it currently does and survive.
 
S

Steve_Grey

Darby Loudon (17)
Proud Pig said:
The one thing that makes Australia almost unsustainable is the fact that we another dominant RUGBY code drawing our fan base. If you are a Rugby fan anywhere other than Australia then you are watching Rugby Union. Speaking from experience here as I grew up in London where obviously football is king. My whole family and all my friends growing up loved football, was the number one sport with most, but we also followed Rugby and in 90% of England that means Rugby Union. A lot of people will follow more than one sport but the anomaly we face is that Rugby Union has a far more successful cousin on doorstep. This does not happen anywhere else in the world, everywhere else the dominant sport is either RU (NZ and SA) or football, a significantly different game. In Australia if you want to follow Rugby or have an interest in it the dominant Rugby game is League. This means that from a young age the blanket coverage in the media of a Rugby game is league. You cannot win the hearts and minds of the kids coming through if they don't see the game constantly playing out in the media. So straight away RU is on the back foot in Australia. In WA Rugby Union is probably the number two sport. However, it is hard to argue that it is better than number three anywhere else including Qld and NSW, AFL still gets far larger crowds in Sydney and Brisbane than RU.

The key issue here is finances. The majority of people can only afford to financially follow one sport meaning the dominate sport in each region gets the majority of the money. As you reach the higher economic earners you may see a financial following in more than one sport but that is a low number that can afford it and the number of people gets less at each level of popularity. This is becoming even more pronounced as the cost of living is going up. There is only so much money available for people to spend on their entertainment and as the third string sport the amount available to RU is very small.

We cannot compete with other countries and we cannot compete with the other sports in Australia, we have to stop pretending we can or we will see the end of the professional game in this country. Melbourne Rebels are just the tip of the iceberg, the Tahs got bailed out by RA they are losing money hand over fist. The Brumbies are successful on the field but can't make a profit. It seems like the Reds maybe just breaking even and the Force are propped up by a Billionaire's generosity, it would only take a downturn in the global economy or a change to Australia's tax laws for that to disappear. The game cannot continue to spend the way it currently does and survive.
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I think that is a fair assessment - and the Aus Rugby Union Players will need to take that on-board; they are paid too much in Australia for a sport [in Australia] that can't afford them.

They should, though, have the choice to ply their trade overseas - as it is not that they are overpaid globally [same maybe, but supply/demand will sort that out quickly], just in the AUS Market-Place. RA will need to change its overseas player policy, and we have to admit that domestic rugby union may need to be without some star players in the Australian Market - just like happens in Europe, where some decide to play overseas.
 
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