Australian Rugby / RA

[Braveheart81]

The following if fact, APL with the sale of two clubs 50 million, selling Perth & Newcastle between 25 and 35 million, existing club owners putting in [guess] 3 million each, that another 36 million. Assume 85 million + 36 million. that like over 120 million. What could rugby do with 120 million.


[/MEDIA]

Seems very difficult for the APL to sell new licences for anywhere close to $25m each when they can't find a buyer for two existing teams.

How does expansion here work? Do the clubs own the league now? If so, do they split all or some of the expansion fee? Otherwise, what's their incentive of letting the league expand? It just shrinks the broadcast revenue pie.

 

[half]

Seems very difficult for the APL to sell new licences for anywhere close to $25m each when they can't find a buyer for two existing teams.

How does expansion here work? Do the clubs own the league now? If so, do they split all or some of the expansion fee? Otherwise, what's their incentive of letting the league expand? It just shrinks the broadcast revenue pie.

But they have. Auckland roughly 8 weeks ago and if media reports are correct Canberra within two weeks.

 

[half]

Half, you were the one who introduced the suggestion that the APL/A-league model as something rugby should replicate, so lets discuss it even if it didn't materialise as you though or hoped. In either case, there's lessons to be learned given how much wasted money there was, even if not positive ones.

Again, relying on new investors to provide cash to enable distributions and dividends to existing shareholders is akin to a ponzi scheme and not sustainable. APL have been struggling to find buyers for those clubs you've mentioned, Perth and Newcastle don't have buyers, certainly not anyone willing to spend $25-$35 million, the APL is now stepping in directly to reduce the wage bills of Perth by forcing trades/sales of players. Like rugby they've also reduced distributions to the clubs. This $120 million figure you have suggested is nothing more then fanciful. Even if it were $120million, their PE partners are entitled to 33% and the sale of new teams was supposed to fund additional capital expenditure, not cover past operating losses.

2005 is irrelevant to critically analyzing the APL governance model and PE injection since 2019. Rugby can't afford to make the same mistakes A-League has made on PE and governance.

wow you seem to know a lot more than me

First

I stand by as I have said about the model. Not sure if you understand the difference between a model under different managers one can succeed and one can fail. Your entire argument is about management mistakes, we are in total agreement don't make the same management mistakes. But that has SFA to do with the model.

Second

Ponzi scheme, well well well, you must be right. As an aside most US codes were built on this model, the MLS was called a Ponzi scheme for maybe its first 25 years.

Third

No buyers for Perth & Newcastle, partly correct no buyers at the price wanted, but not no buyers.

As I said the fact you keep asking te same question in a slightly different form means, no answer will do, but I remind you of my challenge.

From 2004, track the growth of both Football and Rugby, one with the A-L and the other with Super Rugby as the competitions selling the codes, compare the growth in both, one is the clear winner.

 

[Adam84]

wow you seem to know a lot more than me

First

I stand by as I have said about the model. Not sure if you understand the difference between a model under different managers one can succeed and one can fail. Your entire argument is about management mistakes, we are in total agreement don't make the same management mistakes. But that has SFA to do with the model.

Second

Ponzi scheme, well well well, you must be right. As an aside most US codes were built on this model, the MLS was called a Ponzi scheme for maybe its first 25 years.

Third

No buyers for Perth & Newcastle, partly correct no buyers at the price wanted, but not no buyers.

As I said the fact you keep asking te same question in a slightly different form means, no answer will do, but I remind you of my challenge.

From 2004, track the growth of both Football and Rugby, one with the A-L and the other with Super Rugby as the competitions selling the codes, compare the growth in both, one is the clear winner.

Any model which provides PE with the right to reject board proposals, the same PE which has the option to sell back to APL at the same price they paid, is given is a broken model. A model which gives PE 33% share of revenue and too much governance power encourages decisions like the A-League doing their own broadcast production for the sake of higher broadcast deals. If Silver Lakes turned around in 2029 and decided to sell back their stake to the APL for the amount they paid, it would literally bankrupt the league, and guess who owns the first right of refusal to any future leagues, including the teams? Yep, it’s Silver Lakes.

You can argue its the right model and the wrong management all you like, but as you initially stated in this discussion, the APL has some smart businessmen running the clubs, the same businessmen are now running the APL, so are you saying they are the ones making poor decisions? Or is it a case that the actual model which invites PE to appoint the director and have final say on business decisions a flawed one

 

[half]

Any model which provides PE with the right to reject board proposals, the same PE which has the option to sell back to APL at the same price they paid, is given is a broken model. A model which gives PE 33% share of revenue and too much governance power encourages decisions like the A-League doing their own broadcast production for the sake of higher broadcast deals. If Silver Lakes turned around in 2029 and decided to sell back their stake to the APL for the amount they paid, it would literally bankrupt the league, and guess who owns the first right of refusal to any future leagues, including the teams? Yep, it’s Silver Lakes.

You can argue its the right model and the wrong management all you like, but as you initially stated in this discussion, the APL has some smart businessmen running the clubs, the same businessmen are now running the APL, so are you saying they are the ones making poor decisions? Or is it a case that the actual model which invites PE to appoint the director and have final say on business decisions a flawed one

OK mate you win.

Keep referring back to management decisions as the model.

I fully and even more now stand by the model. Maybe one you will understand the difference rather than saying the management is shit, therefore the model is shit. Or is it you just wanta be argue because its Football.

 

[Slim 293]

OK mate you win.

Keep referring back to management decisions as the model.

I fully and even more now stand by the model. Maybe one you will understand the difference rather than saying the management is shit, therefore the model is shit. Or is it you just wanta be argue because its Football.

 

[dru]

^^^ Is that you in the middle, Slim?

 

[Slim 293]

^^^ Is that you in the middle, Slim?

 

[Adam84]

A governance model which enables poor management decisions, is a poor model….

Just as the federated governance model within Australian rugby has enabled decades of systematic management issues of the game, is also a poor governance model.

 

[Wilson]

John Eales medal and the rest of the awards are set to be announced on Wednesday:

Nominees confirmed for John Eales Medal, Wallaroos & Sevens POTY ahead of RA Awards

Rugby Australia has confirmed the nominees for the major award winners ahead of Wednesday's RA Awards.

www.rugby.com.au

RA have announced a series of "nominees" for each, which I don't remember them ever doing before. I assume this isn't actually a change to how the awards are chosen and in reality these are just the top 5 or 3 players for each award.

RUGBY AUSTRALIA AWARDS NOMINEES

John Eales Medal
Angus Bell

Marika Koroibete

Mark Nawaqanitawase

Will Skelton

Rob Valetini

Wallaroos Player of the Year
Emily Chancellor

Georgina Friedrichs

Eva Karpani

Ash Marsters

Maya Stewart

Shaun McKay Medals
Men's Player of the Year
Nathan Lawson

Henry Paterson

Dietrich Roache

Women's Player of the Year
Charlotte Caslick

Alysia Lefau-Fakaosilea

Maddison Levi

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Telegraph reporting that RA made an approach to Arthur Laundy (Laundy Hotels) and major sponsor of the Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs about sponsorship of the game. Offer was rejected.

Of course their out there trying to find the cash but do we know of any other approaches?

 

[Rebel man]

Telegraph reporting that RA made an approach to Arthur Laundy (Laundy Hotels) and major sponsor of the Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs about sponsorship of the game. Offer was rejected.

Of course their out there trying to find the cash but do we know of any other approaches?

Problem is the game is struggling so much that brands don’t want to align themselves with it

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Can't wait to see the Wallet Wizard mascot on the front of a Wallaby Jersey.

 

[Highlander35]

Well, then, by the sounds of it, shit's even more fucked than anticipated.

 

[Rob42]

Telegraph reporting that RA made an approach to Arthur Laundy (Laundy Hotels) and major sponsor of the Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs about sponsorship of the game. Offer was rejected.

Of course their out there trying to find the cash but do we know of any other approaches?

So...business as usual? If RA have only had one sponsorship opportunity rejected, they're not trying hard enough. There's not many teams across any code that don't need to get out there and ask for sponsorship, it doesn't come on a silver platter.

Do we get regular reports on how many businesses turn down sponsorship opportunities with NRL or AFL teams? Or might it just be that News Corp haven't changed their attitude to rugby yet?

 

[young gun]

Problem is the game is struggling so much that brands don’t want to align themselves with it

Doesn't Laundy sponsor the Bulldogs? - Now, that's a struggle. I think despite the fact the boys went to Joeys, they are just a League family and that's where their money goes. Nothing to see here, just the Telegraph being League sycophants.

 

[Rebel man]

With discussion starting about the AFL lengthening the season again to make it 30 weeks plus finals. It really highlights how broken super rugby is. We simply do not play enough games

 

[Dan54]

With discussion starting about the AFL lengthening the season again to make it 30 weeks plus finals. It really highlights how broken super rugby is. We simply do not play enough games

Yep but AFL's international season is somewhat shorter. I don't think making a comp longer is the answer.

 

[Bandar]

Yep but AFL's international season is somewhat shorter. I don't think making a comp longer is the answer.

For NZ

 

[RugbyReg]

With discussion starting about the AFL lengthening the season again to make it 30 weeks plus finals. It really highlights how broken super rugby is. We simply do not play enough games

Irrelevant to rugby completely.