Australian Rugby / RA

[noscrumnolife]

If we include established clubs, why not have a promotion/relegation system? Or would that just concentrate too many resources in the existing comps?

If you are interested in expanding the role of established clubs in the game, I believe there are two options:
1. A national knockout competition with multiple rounds after the Super season including non-Wallabies (sort of like an FA cup but for Aus Club Rugby). Would be good to watch but not great for development.
2. A full blown national promotion and relegation system replacing Super altogether. Cut top-end earners loose to France and Japan and pick them for the Wallabies once the global calendar is introduced in 2026, aligning international windows across the world. This would realistically only work with private ownership of existing clubs as well. Initially only some would be able to afford it. Ideal scenario for me, but also pie-in-the-sky stuff. It is also a long-term idea.

There is no point in only including some clubs in a NRC 2.0. It would piss off so many. If you want to re-do NRC, just do that, but learn the lessons from last time about collective buy-in.

If you don't want to do that, run Super Rugby A.

A half-baked national club competition please no one except the lucky few who are arbitrarily chosen.

 

[Dctarget]

the other states won't like it but perhaps a NSW and QLD comp (maybe with a Canberra club) but with Super Rugby / none Wallabies scattered throughout (in 'centralisation' approach to player development).

So Marley Pearce, while not in the Wallaby squad, may end up playing for Eastwood or Bond Uni for this comp which provides a higher level of comp for players and fans

I don't hate it as a Vic supporter as long as there's some Rebels alignment, like continuing the relationship with Wests. Perhaps even having a 2nd Rebels linked team based in NSW for the Sydney Rebels players.

 

[LeCheese]

Release early, release often (RERO)

A development strategy focused on frequent, early releases. The goal is to promote faster, higher software quality that better meets user needs and expectations.

3-4 years - we're all dead

Unfortunately you can't push significant over-the-air software updates to a national rugby competition...

 

[GeoffL]

Unfortunately you can't push significant over-the-air software updates to a national rugby competition...

and you cant wait 5 years till its "perfect"

 

[LeCheese]

and you cant wait 5 years till its "perfect"

No, but you can wait a couple to make sure what you rollout isn't rushed and poorly thought out.

It really feels like this will be the final opportunity to get this right - half-arsing in the short term with a 'we'll fix it later' attitude is really how we've gotten into this mess, and it sure as shit won't be how we get out of it.

 

[Braveheart81]

No, but you can wait a couple to make sure what you rollout isn't rushed and poorly thought out.

It really feels like this will be the final opportunity to get this right - half-arsing in the short term with a 'we'll fix it later' attitude is really how we've gotten into this mess, and it sure as shit won't be how we get out of it.

I agree.

It would be pretty easy to hold a series of Super Rugby B games in the interim similar to the under 19s and under 16s competitions etc. I'd just be doing it a bit earlier so it's done before preseason starts.

RA can't afford to get this wrong but there's also options to make sure something can be done while you're working out exactly what the best structure is.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I think this is where some of the concepts originally proposed for the last NRC fell down.

I know in QLD for example before the QRU elected to run the two sides themselves, there were groups of clubs trying to enter into JVs and pony up the coin amongst themselves. No one really came close on their own to having the cash required.

It would really depend if any proposed club comp had one eye on being a direct replacement for Super Rugby down the track here in Australia, or if it was going to remain a 'third tier'.

If we were to end up with a third tier competition only we would surely be in an even worse position than we are today with only a second tier involvement. Whatever happens we must still have some sort of international involvement between the reworked club comp and the Wallabies.

 

[oztimmay]

Release early, release often (RERO)

A development strategy focused on frequent, early releases. The goal is to promote faster, higher software quality that better meets user needs and expectations.

3-4 years - we're all dead

If only RA were agile enough to work this way...

 

[GeoffL]

If we were to end up with a third tier competition only we would surely be in an even worse position than we are today with only a second tier involvement. Whatever happens we must still have some sort of international involvement between the reworked club comp and the Wallabies.

"Whatever happens we must still have some sort of international involvement between the reworked club comp and the Wallabies."

Why on earth would you shackle the game to that? The Boomers are currently ranked 4th in the world and the NBL is booming () but with only minimal and tokenistic international involvement. Even the A League which everyone dumps on gets average crowds slightly better than Super Rugby

We need a domestic comp that is a proper competition - not a glorified selection trial. Let go of the notion that there is something "special" about rugby because of its international involvement. thats a bit 1960s to be frank

 

[GeoffL]

If only Rugby Australia were agile enough to work this way...

I think they want to be - Herbert's statement today that he wants a Club comp up next year surely is some kind of a sign of a mindset change?

 

[RugbyReg]

And what about us stakeholders and fans in the West ?????

And why should players like Marley need to pack their bags and go east for an extended period to get game time, why can't a team or two play out of Perth, or are we just an inconvience and cost to you in the East

Honest question - do you think your top club would compete against the likes of Brothers, Wests, Bond and Easts and whoever is top 4 in Sydney? Perhaps they would? If so, that'd be awesome. But yes, there would be a cost factor obviously.

 

[oztimmay]

I think they want to be - Herbert's statement today that he wants a Club comp up next year surely is some kind of a sign of a mindset change?

I hope so. If I've learned anything from Agile transformations it's all about mindset over/before methodology. Our heads have to be in te game first.

 

[Lorenzo]

This is what I don't understand about this proposed model.

apologies but what is the proposed model? i've seen herbert's comments about club-centric and i infer from that we won't have newly invented teams like the Western Wahoos or whatever, but is there more info than that?

 

[noscrumnolife]

apologies but what is the proposed model? i've seen herbert's comments about club-centric and i infer from that we won't have newly invented teams like the Western Wahoos or whatever, but is there more info than that?

There have been an awful lot of models suggested today, its a bit hard to keep track of. Most of the discussion stems from Herbert saying a third-tier competition will be linked to club competition (something Waugh has previously implied). There is not much more information than that other than a reported rumour it will be NSW/QLD teams only.

 

[PhilClinton]

apologies but what is the proposed model? i've seen herbert's comments about club-centric and i infer from that we won't have newly invented teams like the Western Wahoos or whatever, but is there more info than that?

There is not.

But it is the offseason and nothing to talk about so we now have 4 pages of potential third tier models.

 

[Dctarget]

Have the top 12 club sides from QLD/NSW/ACT then have relegation/promotion top 14 style for years after that.

Align Rebels & WF players from QLD and NSW with one or two clubs each in each respective state (like they do with Wests for Rebs).

 

[wamberal99]

For all the "tribalism" purported to be surrounding the clubs, they struggle to get 500 people at a game

Some do. Some get a lot more.

 

[Wallaby Man]

Have the top 12 club sides from QLD/NSW/ACT then have relegation/promotion top 14 style for years after that.

Align Rebels & WF players from QLD and NSW with one or two clubs each in each respective state (like they do with Wests for Rebs).

I think any club involvement would almost certainly eventually lead to Super Rugby team alignment. The NRL teams used to scatter players and then become more and more aligned with singular clubs because it just makes sense for funding and development. Will annoy some people thinking that might be the case but it will happen. You’d have clubs like Wests become solely Melb aligned with no Reds contracted players etc.

 

[Tazzmania]

Honest question - do you think your top club would compete against the likes of Brothers, Wests, Bond and Easts and whoever is top 4 in Sydney? Perhaps they would? If so, that'd be awesome. But yes, there would be a cost factor obviously.

Possibly not at the moment, but cutting us off will mean we will more than likley fall further behind and eventually sink into oblivion. How does a WA kid then find a pathway into super rugby. Do not forget that Twiggy's funding of the Force, club rugby and schools rugby in WA is aimed at getting WA kids a pathway to Super rugby. If we miss out on the third tier what happens to our kids development. Our Force and especially fringe players and developing club players also need more games to improve at a slightly higher level, without having to leabve friends and family for a few months each year and ship over east.

 

[Adam84]

Possibly not at the moment, but cutting us off will mean we will more than likley fall further behind and eventually sink into oblivion.

Nah… Do you really think a QPR vs SS club competition is really going to be the difference between sinking into oblivion and not?

this argument that we “must appease everyone” is flawed in this discussion, the scenario that appeases everyone costs more then Australian Rugby can afford, we tried them, and they failed.. So now we get stuck with decision paralysis and not doing anything because it doesn’t cater to everyone’s needs straight away.