Australian Rugby / RA

[Micheal]

How can Rugby Australia afford to run a 3rd tier national comp with just no money?

The logistical costs of flying around teams is just so tough

Even if you make each team FIFO the day of the game (so they aren't paying for accommodation), how does that function with WA?

Could a different city host it each year?

Make it a knock out tournament (or a rapid pool tournament) with larger squads and games every 3-4 days for teams.

If you can find incredibly cheap accommodation near grounds (e.g. the Aus Schoolboys used to put kids up in the Riverview Boarding Houses during the holidays, playing the games at Riverview itself) then the cost structure would be less complex / lower.

 

[PhilClinton]

Could a different city host it each year?

Make it a knock out tournament (or a rapid pool tournament) with larger squads and games every 3-4 days for teams.

If you can find incredibly cheap accommodation near grounds (e.g. the Aus Schoolboys used to put kids up in the Riverview Boarding Houses during the holidays, playing the games at Riverview itself) then the cost structure would be less complex / lower.

Unless the funding is coming and all the players are being paid a respectable sum, I reckon it's highly unlikely amateur footy players will be able to clear their schedules to play an end of club season tournament across a month or two.

Even then, there would be a huge number of players who simply can't take that much time off to play some rugby games.

If we are talking about club rugby stepping up that whole aspect needs to be considered.

 

[Braveheart81]

One way in order to capture the sense of sydney tribalism if the club centric way doesnt workout could be as follows:

South Harbour
North Harbour
Western Sydney
Southern Sydney???? not really that big of a rugby area.

Does that capture tribalism or does it just pair together teams with the biggest traditional rivalries?

 

[fatprop]

Could a different city host it each year?

Make it a knock out tournament (or a rapid pool tournament) with larger squads and games every 3-4 days for teams.

If you can find incredibly cheap accommodation near grounds (e.g. the Aus Schoolboys used to put kids up in the Riverview Boarding Houses during the holidays, playing the games at Riverview itself) then the cost structure would be less complex / lower.

I think at the moment even getting the Aus Super Rugby sides to roll into a Aus Super Rugby comp without the wob squad would be a stretch

 

[LeCheese]

Could a different city host it each year?

Make it a knock out tournament (or a rapid pool tournament) with larger squads and games every 3-4 days for teams.

If you can find incredibly cheap accommodation near grounds (e.g. the Aus Schoolboys used to put kids up in the Riverview Boarding Houses during the holidays, playing the games at Riverview itself) then the cost structure would be less complex / lower.

Under the assumption that there's no contracting or structural changes for players - i.e., literally just grabbing the top club teams as they were this year - it's not really feasible to pull players away from home (and their main jobs) for a few of weeks. A weekly weekend comp, with a travel day on Friday, would be more doable, but even still it could be a big ask for some.

We really need a standalone, professional, third-tier competition with representation from each core playing area across the country, and a couple of teams from the bigger cities. Maybe we could call it the National Rugby Competition or something...

 

[fatprop]

Does that capture tribalism or does it just pair together teams with the biggest traditional rivalries?

For all the "tribalism" purported to be surrounding the clubs, they struggle to get 500 people at a game

 

[noscrumnolife]

If you want to connect club land to pro land through a national competition, either go all in or not at all.

Picking a small handful of clubs from Sydney and Brisbane, maybe 1-2 from VIC/WA/ACT (if at all) is a great way to go about isolating certain elements of the community by applying arbitrary criteria as to what clubs are allowed in and what aren't. Say you are a promising Eastwood junior who the Tahs went with minutes under their belt. Its your family club etc etc. But this club competition only has Gordon from the NW of Sydney permitted. Is that Eastwood player now forced to don Gordon stripes? Big picture, maybe that's not the biggest deal. But if the point of your competition is (in part) connecting community grassroots rugby to the upper echelon, show it the proper respect it deserves.

If you do want a select number of teams, surely you're much better off making them representative sides drawn on geographical lines.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

For all the "tribalism" purported to be surrounding the clubs, they struggle to get 500 people at a game

It's lost as soon as they put on new gear with a meaningless name...

I'd rather try buy into a new side than be told your clubs feed into "North Harbour" and you go for them now. I use to be one of those sad 500 at games but it didn't carry any feeling.

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

Only spitballing. noscrum makes a good point. I doubt we can we fit the 3 North Shore clubs in a national club comp. However they are all on the bigger side of fanbase and support relative to other SS clubs.

A Gordon fan will not support norths for example.

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

Does that capture tribalism or does it just pair together teams with the biggest traditional rivalries?

You got any suggestions then bud?

 

[half]

On bended knees, arms open and looking to the heavens.

Don't rush the third tier, the two previous attempts by Pulver & Flower went from idea to playing in about six months.

I would prefer nay beg, that they take 3 to 4 years to get it right.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'd be on board with a third tier comp being NSW/QLD only if there was a clear pathway to other states joining in at a defined later point.

 

[Braveheart81]

You got any suggestions then bud?

Not really. It's very difficult.

The NRC was a good competition which was a great opportunity for the right players to get exposure to some higher standard games but wasn't financially sustainable (unless someone is happy to fund a modest loss each season). It didn't have the cut through in terms of the fanbase and likewise lacked buy-in from some segments (the Shute Shield clubs in particular).

Personally I would be seeking a return to an NRC model with the understanding that things would be different this time around in terms of the NSW teams.

 

[oztimmay]

On bended knees, arms open and looking to the heavens.

Don't rush the third tier, the two previous attempts by Pulver & Flower went from idea to playing in about six months.

I would prefer nay beg, that they take 3 to 4 years to get it right.

Perfection inhibits progress. Sure, learn from previous errors. but don't take too long to decide, otherwise you will likely lost the opportunity.

 

[noscrumnolife]

Personally I would be seeking a return to an NRC model with the understanding that things would be different this time around in terms of the NSW teams.

Presumably would be a bit easier to do if NSW Rugby is substantially incorporated with RA.

 

[Braveheart81]

Presumably would be a bit easier to do if NSW Rugby is substantially incorporated with Rugby Australia.

Yes, for sure. At least RA would control the Waratahs side of the equation and could make it so that two NSW teams were run out of Waratahs HQ or similar.

 

[stillmissit]

Or if it's precursor to a full domestic pro comp (i.e. no Super Rugby). That would make sense as NSW and Qld are really the only states that could have more than one side in a national club comp (assuming a focus on local talent). So if there are 4 sides each from NSW and Qld in the initial iteration, then when Super is wound up the players are dispersed accordingly between the 8 initial clubs, plus the highest ranked from NSW & Qld from the second division (=10), one each from ACT, WA and Vic (=13), and finally the next highest ranked from either NSW or Qld from the second division to round out the 14 teams. And expand the second division at the same time.

I can understand the support for grassroots in such an arrangement but the demise of Super Rugby will almost certainly; condemn the Wallabies to sub 10 WW position. I am not stating that our Super Rugby is great as it isn't, but I would rather we built both rather than dump Super Rugby for a club based comp.

 

[Singas Rugby Fan]

Proposed 3rd tier: Super Rugby 'A'

5-6 teams, each super rugby team plus a Barbarians team, based in Western Sydney(?) Or the Drua(?)

Format: Played throughout club/Super Rugby season on a Wednesday. Can play 1-2 games a night, giving broadcasters good value for money, outside of competing windows with the AFL/NRL (hold byes during Origin). Held at suburban grounds like Ballymore or North Sydney Oval. Partner with good event management, you could make it a fun night out for spectators. Imagine the ruckus of a double header at Sydney Uni on Student Night.

Players: Super Rugby squad players who either aren't selected that weekend and perhaps players who only have played limited minutes, eg reserve scrumhalf who came on in the last 5min of the week before. The rest is filled by top club talent.

Fulltime professional contracts will only be offered to those who play Super Rugby A. Genuine pathway, no more recruiting straight from club land.

Benefits: lowest cost, leveraging existing infrastructure from the pro franchises, existing fan base, genuine third tier standard with fringe super players playing with and against the top club players. Stan would surely be interested in expanding their rugby content for prime time midweek. Guaranteed Australian winner (which is really important apparently).

Downside: load management, this will have to be carefully managed, obviously, but not impossible. A player may be expected to play 3 games across 7 days, but this won't be a frequent occurrence. Not an uncommon thing in the northern hemisphere. With this level of autonomy, the season could run from the start of Super Rugby and go all the way through to Spring.

 

[Highlander35]

As to my understanding, the "organic" competitions of the NSWRL and VFL had clubs only running Seniors, Reserves and U21s at the time of moving to become "National" competitions. Worth considering.

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

I can understand the support for grassroots in such an arrangement but the demise of Super Rugby will almost certainly; condemn the Wallabies to sub 10 WW position. I am not stating that our Super Rugby is great as it isn't, but I would rather we built both rather than dump Super Rugby for a club based comp.

If this was the arrangement the giteau law would surely be removed. Our best players would be overseas.