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Australian Rugby / RA

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Dick Tooth (41)
hoggy said:
I don't think anyone is arguing that the A-league is a run away success, but those losses are being sustained by private owners who for whatever reason are willing to fund those clubs. The League will thrive or shrink in relation to market demand.

Maybe no one is watching the A League, but the difference is those losses are not being sustained completely by the governing body, unlike Rugby Union.
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100% correct,

I would also add if you go back say 5 years, rugby would have had more people willing to invest than the A-L.

The quality, the management, the TV ratings, the crowds are all meaningless comparisons.

The truth of the matter is the system and structures we have make it near impossible to break free.

Also I am a lost how you can dismiss, that the worlds most successful competitions models all have private ownership of the teams playing in them.

Don't think I will change anyone's mind so may drift away for a while, I have said my piece and made my arguments.
 
noscrumnolife

noscrumnolife

Bill Watson (15)
half, I think you would have a slightly more positive reception if you advanced the argument for private ownership leading with actually successful competitions (Top 14, EPL, NFL) rather than leading with A-League, MLS and MLR, which are all crap.
 
Goosestep

Goosestep

Jim Clark (26)
half said:
^^^^^^^^^

For the doubters out there.

The only other sport in Australia that operates like rugby of any note is cricket. Both see international test matches as the high point, rugby has Super Rugby, cricket has a state based Shield teams.

All other codes have developed and built upon being a national domestic competition. Even cricket has written off its Shield competition, and has opened up so many more competitions, ODI's, 20 / 20, women's etc. A cricket world cup, now in the Olympics'.
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Cricket is the national sport …so culturally it’s played all over the country.

it also has moved with the times, and added things like one dayers , 20/20 over the years to compete with other sports … something rugby has never done .
 
kiap

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
Goosestep said:
Cricket is the national sport …so culturally it’s played all over the country.

it also has moved with the times, and added things like one dayers , 20/20 over the years to compete with other sports … something rugby has never done .
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Sevens is rugby's T20
 
hoggy

hoggy

Nev Cottrell (35)
noscrumnolife said:
half, I think you would have a slightly more positive reception if you advanced the argument for private ownership leading with actually successful competitions (Top 14, EPL, NFL) rather than leading with A-League, MLS and MLR, which are all crap.
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Positive reception doesn't matter though it is the underlying structure of those competitions that is important, from the EPL right down to the A-League simply because it works.

Yet it is Rugby Union that somehow thinks it can swim against the tide. The RA are $40 Million in debt and about to borrow $60 million more to simply operate over the next few years.

That debt will have to be paid back by the RA which ultimately means its own fan base.
 
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noscrumnolife

noscrumnolife

Bill Watson (15)
hoggy said:
Positive reception doesn't matter though it is the underlying structure of those competitions that is important, from the EPL right down to the A-League simply because it works.
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If there clear examples of private ownership not producing a good competition (A-League, MLR, MLS eg) then it evidently does not always simply work. It's a question of whether it is the right fit for each sport in each country, which will vary. Unless the only metric for success of an ownership model is if it will stop the national union going bankrupt.

English premiership rugby is privately owned, as is French Top 14. One is a failing model with teams regularly going bust as of late, the other is the standout domestic competition in the world. There is no one size fits all solution.

To be clear, I'm not advocating for or against a privately owned domestic competition. I don't really know enough about competitive models and the details behind financing to make a judgement. But I don't think arguments for or against made by reference to success in other sports are particularly good ones. Because there are also plenty of examples of failure.
 
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Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
People have raised the concept of a 7s series similar to the Big Bash before.

The major issue is the number of players required. Two cricket teams provides an evening of entertainment whereas you need 12 7s teams to fill the same amount of time (just over 3 hours). With a game roughly every 30 minutes and each team only playing one game in that time period.

Maybe you could condense it a bit and get 6 games out of 8 teams in a session (4 teams play twice and 4 teams once) but the point stands. That's a lot of players needed to provide a 7s event.
 
WorkingClassRugger

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
Braveheart81 said:
People have raised the concept of a 7s series similar to the Big Bash before.

The major issue is the number of players required. Two cricket teams provides an evening of entertainment whereas you need 12 7s teams to fill the same amount of time (just over 3 hours). With a game roughly every 30 minutes and each team only playing one game in that time period.

Maybe you could condense it a bit and get 6 games out of 8 teams in a session (4 teams play twice and 4 teams once) but the point stands. That's a lot of players needed to provide a 7s event.
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Why would it need to be 3 hours of content? An hour to an hour and a half would work just as well in my opinion. And why does it need to stick to the traditional 7s format?

Several years ago a group in the States ran a concept game for the Super 7s Rugby League where they ran a games in 12 minute quarters as opposed to two 7 minute halves. Now it proved a bridge too far as 12 minute quarters proved too taxing for the level to remain high enough. But 4x7 minute quarters with rolling subs could work. That could work. Run a Men's and Women's game. With breaks and intro/outro you could be run and done in 1.5 hours.
 
PhilClinton

PhilClinton

Mark Loane (55)
WorkingClassRugger said:
Why would it need to be 3 hours of content? An hour to an hour and a half would work just as well in my opinion. And why does it need to stick to the traditional 7s format?

Several years ago a group in the States ran a concept game for the Super 7s Rugby League where they ran a games in 12 minute quarters as opposed to two 7 minute halves. Now it proved a bridge too far as 12 minute quarters proved too taxing for the level to remain high enough. But 4x7 minute quarters with rolling subs could work. That could work. Run a Men's and Women's game. With breaks and intro/outro you could be run and done in 1.5 hours.
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Whilst I like the concept, my question is why not just make a new game entirely if you’re changing it that much?

With 7s now being an Olympic sport I imagine there is a requirement/want to keep any 7s games played to be kept in that format.

I’d argue you’d be better off doing this type of thing but with a 10s team to create a bit more structure across the game. You’d still be attracting the 7s players but adding the additional 3 on the field reduces the fatigue and need for rolling subs.
 
WorkingClassRugger

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
PhilClinton said:
Whilst I like the concept, my question is why not just make a new game entirely if you’re changing it that much?

With 7s now being an Olympic sport I imagine there is a requirement/want to keep any 7s games played to be kept in that format.

I’d argue you’d be better off doing this type of thing but with a 10s team to create a bit more structure across the game. You’d still be attracting the 7s players but adding the additional 3 on the field reduces the fatigue and need for rolling subs.
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I actually would prefer something like this to be 10s as opposed to 7s. I think it would work better. I know a few guys fairly connected in the US Rugby scene and had a similar discussion when this game occured. It's just that the discussion is centred around 7s.
 
Doritos Day

Doritos Day

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Has anyone else heard recent whispers about a future for the NRC?

I'm not sure if the "friend of a friend" had his words misrepresented so interested if others have similar mail
 
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Dick Tooth (41)
noscrumnolife said:
half, I think you would have a slightly more positive reception if you advanced the argument for private ownership leading with actually successful competitions (Top 14, EPL, NFL) rather than leading with A-League, MLS and MLR, which are all crap.
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Nos

Slight correction to your statement the MLS is booming & has quality [not the best but decent], its taken over hockey to move to fourth in the US codes, and many are predicating MLS will take over Baseball within 7 to 10 years some suggest 5 years. The MLS regular season has just finished with a tad over 10.9 million thu the gate with an average 92% stadium capacity with there new broadcaster beaming at the success of their deal. The huge thing they have going for them is they have connected with gen Z and the millennials in numbers no other code can match.

MLR is very young, and up against massive odds, hardly any players yet with all that going against it it to is bursting at the seams, its crap I agree, then why are people so willing to back it. BTW MLR is also connecting with Z & M. Why is this so !!!!!!!!!!!!!! just maybe the system structure????

The A-L, follows on from a long line of miss management at the professional level, for over 70 years, in Australian Football.

Yet, people keep pumping in funds to buy teams in the A-L, further cover annual losses, and as many scream its low quality, poorly managed and so on. Why do people keep doing it!!!!!??????

Nos, the reason I use the A-L & NRL & AFL [somehow lost by many] is because they are local and the A-L has internationals.

I also do and have always pointed to the success of private club ownership models were the clubs run the competition set up by local governing bodies.

EPL in England, all the big USA sports all have private ownership of teams.
 
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Dick Tooth (41)
^^^^^^

Nos

As a matter of debate, have you considered that arguing the quality of the league in question is secondary to arguing about the system and structure.

Mention, A-L among other codes, first single out A-l and then say its crap / shit, so debates ends. As if following the worlds most successful is shit / crap because its used in the A-L

Ever tho, of arguing why """""""""""""Private Ownership in a Competition Controlled by the Teams, Established by the Governing Body"""""" is bad and the current structure of Super Rugby is good.

Sorta like this

Advantages of Private etc

Disadvantages of Private etc

Super Rugby in Australia Advantages

Super Rugby in Australia Disadvantages

As I said before will drift away for a while soon, I have made my case and I will leave it at that.
 
hoggy

hoggy

Nev Cottrell (35)
You should keep posting Half, if you are passionate about it. this is a blog about Australian rugby, "Where to for Super Rugby" how many posts did it get to, and we just moved it to Australian Rugby/Rugby Australia.

Lets face it the reason the game here finds itself stuck in a big pile of shit, struggling to get out of it is simply because its never dealt with the fundamental problem facing the game here, that is Super Rugby.
 
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