Australian Rugby / RA

[Interestedoz1]

The Steve Anderson article is good.


In my view a HUGE part of the problem has been the relentless "focus on the positives" attitude that has pervaded Aussie rugby for 2 decades. The current mess is the first time in 2 decades I have NOT seen anyone suggesting we "focus on the positives". But look at what it has taken to get to there. IMO we should have been here 10-15 years ago. More Steve Anderson for mine.

Can anyone imagine the All Blacks sitting around "focusing on the positives" after significant losses? Maybe they do - I lived there during the 80's and I don't recall seeing it.

 

[Wilson]

Ahhhh….the shrink to greatness model again. We don’t want the challenge of actually improving and winning against the best so let’s shrink competition to ensure Australian teams win!

The article talks about how Ireland only has 4 pro clubs and Scotland 2. It admits a domestic comp would probably be lower quality rugby. This is what you want to serve up to the Australian public? When they can watch and follow world class games of NRL and AFL, we’ll give them the option of 3rd rate rugby.

I think Steve Anderson has a better way forward and he has the credentials to be listened to.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/09/...-and-the-brutal-warning-of-what-is-ahead/amp/

The factual inaccuracies around this that keep getting trotted out really annoy me.

From the smh article:

The data tells a compelling story that Australia’s success in Super Rugby – and at Test level – has gone steadily downhill since a fourth club (the Western Force in 2006) and then fifth (Melbourne in 2011) were added.

Patently untrue, the first 4 years of 5 teams saw 2 Australian sides win the comp (2011 Reds, 2014 tahs) and another runner up (Brumbies 2013). This is at least equal with or most successful period of super rugby ever, with the best distribution of that success.

“None of them make any money, and only one has private money. So, it’s not producing high performance for us, and it is not financially sound, why aren’t we considering change?” asks former Wallabies forward and premiership-winning Randwick coach Steve Hoiles.

The Reds are turning a profit.

There are points in the article I agree with (particularly the initial one of 2015s success delaying needed reform), but it's hard to take the thrust of it seriously when the argument is built on shaky ground.

 

[Interestedoz1]

Do people think it is worth even trying to get back to being a Tier 1 rugby nation again? Is it even achievable?

Would the effort better be spent trying to preserve the game and playing tier 2 teams with which we can actually compete?

Keen to hear what people think..

 

[Wilson]

Do people think it is worth even trying to get back to being a Tier 1 rugby nation again? Is it even achievable?

Would the effort better be spent trying to preserve the game and playing tier 2 teams with which we can actually compete?

Keen to hear what people think..

We are still a tier 1 nation - The tiers are an established governance concept and define voting powers at world rugby. Until Japan was made tier 1 they have always been the rugby championship and six nations teams.

If you're advocating that we step back from the rugby championship and cede voting power by voluntarily dropping to tier 2 then I couldn't disagree more, I'm not sure the game could ever recover from that.

 

[SouthernX]

Tier 1 off the paddock
tier 2 or 3 on it.

The wallabies have 2 years to find their mojo against the lions in preparation for what’s coming in 4 years.

I am team Eddie. Hope he has the last laugh with the boys

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Kicking the bee hive take.

We have an issue in the professional sector of how we are bringing through our youth which overall are a top 6 nation pretty consistently.

 

[SouthernX]

Kicking the bee hive take.

We have an issue in the professional sector of how we are bringing through our youth which overall are a top 6 nation pretty consistently.

I thought the u20s been playing of high standard last couple years.

Punching above their weight when compared to the wallabies

 

[stillmissit]

NRC lacked tribalism, for sure.

But any honest assessment of the NRC shows that the NSW sides were poorly supported by the SRU Mafia, because they wanted to play as clubs from the get go. More handout money that way.

Not sure about the other clubs but I know my club was excited about it and felt it gave players, who would not get picked up by Tahs, as they had not been academy players, a chance at higher honours that most club players miss out on in the modern rugby scene.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I say top 6 because we’ve had a couple poor turn outs but I was going to say top 4. Of the U20s World Cup ran a qf system I think we even get 3rd at the last one if fit.

 

[Joe Blow]

Tier 1 off the paddock
tier 2 or 3 on it.

The wallabies have 2 years to find their mojo against the lions in preparation for what’s coming in 4 years.

I am team Eddie. Hope he has the last laugh with the boys

That sounds like pretty much what we have been doing the last 20 yrs and ignoring the massive holes and glaring errors, including from EJ (Eddie Jones).
I don’t think significant change will happen on a wing and a prayer

 

[SouthernX]

I say top 6 because we’ve had a couple poor turn outs but I was going to say top 4. Of the U20s World Cup ran a qf system I think we even get 3rd at the last one if fit.

Personally for me as a fan of Australian rugby.

The kiwis are always our benchmark or litmus test.

Wether it’s the girls, 7s, youth programs or blue moon wallabies - a win over the kiwis is a good indicator of directions of rugby programs and it seems to be occurring more and more against the kiwis in u20s

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Not sure about the other clubs but I know my club was excited about it and felt it gave players, who would not get picked up by Tahs, as they had not been academy players, a chance at higher honours that most club players miss out on in the modern rugby scene.

That’s good to hear but I knew multiple players who were asked to play including some that ended up playing Super Rugby who said no thanks because of the $ and the fact they were making more working than playing. It’s how so many Colts & second graders ended up playing.

 

[Tomthumb]

Should we start with hiring Steve Anderson as a consultant and actually listen to and then implement his plan? He has done it with success in Europe. The key to this is cleaning out most of the current board and bringing in people who will be open to massive change. Then bring in David Nucifora or someone like him to implement the plan from grass roots up, knowing it will most likely take 5-10 years to come to fruition. It’s a long game and there are no short cuts so any 50-60 something board members will not still be involved when we start to see the final results. It will take a very anti-Australian political stance to buy into it. I am not sure who those people are or where they are but we need to find them.
It’s a very big ask and we may be beyond it already? Who is going to drive it?

Theoretically I agree, but the only way for it to work is for all 5 super teams to be owned by Rugby Australia. And I just can’t see that happening, too many egos

 

[noscrumnolife]

The immediate problem facing any structural reform and its implementation is the federal nature of Australian Rugby. We can sit and handwave about whether it's good or bad, but its what we have so we've got to crack on within that federal system. All the member unions, it seems, are on board with centralisation of some kind. The problem is they have no trust in McLennan, and as such, prefer to protect themselves. And who can blame them? For me, it's not McLennan's actions that sting - its his words.

McLennan is a Newscorp/Murdoch guy. He is from and of that world - rough and tumble, very brash, not much regard for others interests. That is who he is, and expecting him to change is fanciful. At the moment, the only pathway forward is through very good leadership. That is what we need. A skilled and experienced leader, who can cut through the past and bring the member unions together. Without that happening, it will be impossible to implement any of the changes everyone knows are necessary. He is evidently not that person. Two questions then:

1. How is an executive chairman replaced?
2. Who is responsible for the appointment of an executive chairman?

 

[Joe Blow]

Theoretically I agree, but the only way for it to work is for all 5 super teams to be owned by Rugby Australia. And I just can’t see that happening, too many egos

Well that means we are dead in the water. A few patches here and there may keep us afloat for a while but just about every other team is improving and those within a couple of ranking points of us that have not passed us yet will do so soon.

 

[stillmissit]

Well that means we are dead in the water. A few patches here and there may keep us afloat for a while but just about every other team is improving and those within a couple of ranking points of us that have not passed us yet will do so soon.

If we don't address the serious issues facing school participation, retention of rugby players and the politics/small thinking we are going to struggle to get players, money and support.

 

[Goosestep]

Do people think it is worth even trying to get back to being a Tier 1 rugby nation again? Is it even achievable?

Would the effort better be spent trying to preserve the game and playing tier 2 teams with which we can actually compete?

Keen to hear what people think..

If don’t aspire to be tier 1, the Game is dead already

 

[Goosestep]

Not sure about the other clubs but I know my club was excited about it and felt it gave players, who would not get picked up by Tahs, as they had not been academy players, a chance at higher honours that most club players miss out on in the modern rugby scene.

Yeah but it had no geographical connection .. eg eastern suburbs was a feeder club for NSW country … how did that make any sense for player/ fans alike ?

also Balmain was a feeder club .. they’re not even shute shield but fricken subbies lol … which nepo-baby got that approved ???

 

[DevilDog]

And what’s your proposal …..genius ?

Let the professional game die.

Focus everything onto grassroots, PATHWAYS, PATHWAYS, PATHWAYS

 

[Goosestep]

Let the professional game die.

Focus everything onto grassroots, PATHWAYS, PATHWAYS, PATHWAYS

It’s 2023 .. no money … no sport…