Australian Rugby / RA

[Marce]

I think its more about it being The Courier Mail than we are cheaper than the others.

They hate Rugby?

 

[RugbyReg]

They hate Rugby?

its locally known as The Bronco Mail, after the local rugby league team.

It's also News Ltd

 

[Tomikin]

Sure, but running it after the club season isn't just "something at the end" - there's still a fair few tests to run in the year at that point and Wallabies pushing for selection or coming back from injury need somewhere to do it. Running post club season also means the squad players get both the higher level game time and the club game time, ensuring the standards rise there too. If we're trying to make sure those squad guys are getting 30+ games of rugby per year then ~10 extra games of NRC instead of club rugby isn't enough, they're going to need as much of the club season as possible to get there. Also worth noting that some of those higher level club players arguably need a full club season to make sure they're ready for NRC.

Look I'm no big fan of club rugby either, but trying to run another competition at the same time that sucks even more players out of it just seems inefficent and spiteful, aside from being politically impossible.

Spiteful? Jesus nothing to do with that, and maybe if we started earlier in the year we could have a longer running competition... just a different view of on it.. I don't know what's right..

 

[Tomikin]

No one is arguing that we don't need to do something different, just that there's literally no good reason to attack club rugby when there's a perfectly good and arguably better window for the competition immediately afterwards. We need to be bringing people into the tent, not pushing them out.

You seem to think Im attacking them, I'm not at all, I just come from different sports where players who get rep duty aren't available because they are playing better grades, and the people from there clubs are happy for them and excited they got to a new level.

So what happens to the 5 guys who grind out all year to get to the finals then get dropped because Super Players come back, that would suck..

 

[Derpus]

Appreciate your different point of view Tomikin but I don't think I can agree on this one.

One of the big draw cards for clubs at the back end of their season is the returning non-Wallaby Super Rugby players. It draws bigger crowds to home games and usually quite a number of spectators who are casual invested. Not to mention the experience they bring being in the club setup for a couple of weeks, it can leave a lasting impression on the next generation.

I don't think any solutions where clubs are deprived of their returning Super Rugby players and also have a number of their other top players removed from the team is the solution for making rugby great again in Australia. Why bother having Super Rugby contracted players even nominate for a club team if they're going to play Super Rugby all year and then roll straight into another competition?

I also appreciate this is likely a more strongly held opinion by those in NSW and QLD. So for a more impartial opinion - I don't think competing against Australia's other main codes in August/September/October is a great idea either from a viewership perspective. Playing the 'new NRC' at the end of club season means open slather in terms of being the only televised local footy being played.

This perfectly encapsulates the problem. Club rugby doesn't cut it as a pro pathway that is only one step below Super Rugby (particularly SS). But it also stands in the way of anything else being put in place.

Super Rugby guys shouldn't be dropping to non-professional rugby. Except after retirement maybe.

 

[Marce]

its locally known as The Bronco Mail, after the local rugby league team.

I know who are the Broncos but is there a rivalry between Broncos and Reds supporters?

I never been in QLD, but I know people from NSW who supports both codes. I have a friend living in Coogee, he supports Randwick, Waratahs and Roosters lol

 

[PhilClinton]

This perfectly encapsulates the problem. Club rugby doesn't cut it as a pro pathway that is only one step below Super Rugby (particularly SS). But it also stands in the way of anything else being put in place.

Super Rugby guys shouldn't be dropping to non-professional rugby. Except after retirement maybe.

Definitely agree that club rugby in it's current format doesn't cut it as the next level below Super Rugby, I don't think any of the recent posts on here support that idea either.

But that is a failing of RA itself, so the clubs shouldn't have to suffer by having their link between professional players and the club severed by either depriving them of returning after Super Rugby season or pillaging the clubs for another competition mid their season.

Plenty of good ideas have been thrown around by posters on these forums about different variations of a 'new NRC' - whether it be using the existing Super Rugby franchises, new franchises ala Big Bash, franchises linked to various clubs etc - as long as these competitions are played during that September - December window, I don't think any clubs would have opposition to it.

 

[Adam84]

So lets do what we are doing now.. and all will be great in the world.

Well that isn’t what I said was it Tomikin?

How about you consider options which don’t alienate club rugby and those fans/players.

 

[Braveheart81]

If we brought back an NRC type competition you'd presumably get club rugby to finish a couple of weeks earlier (as it previously did).

You can't run an NRC competition through the finals of club rugby. It would diminish those competitions around the country. This competition is meant to incorporate the best players from club rugby and whatever format it takes, you need the buy-in of both club rugby clubs and fans.

 

[Derpus]

Well that isn’t what I said was it Tomikin?

How about you consider options which don’t alienate club rugby and those fans/players.

I genuinely wonder if there are any. NRC following Club failed to get buy in from SS.

 

[PhilClinton]

I genuinely wonder if there are any. NRC following Club failed to get buy in from SS.

Then the NSWRU need to follow suit of the QRU and take control of the teams and the allocations.

There weren't any complaints (that I'm aware of) from clubs about the Bris City and QLD Country sides, and both teams had good success on the field.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I recall one of the main beefs from Sydney club land, at least its fans here, when NRC followed was that the SS had to finish earlier than customary. The issue possibly was what do the club players do in those weeks they would in other years still be playing SS. Whatever, I have no confidence any negotiated solution involving SRU or SS sides will be possible. They don't like the NRC because it takes what they consider to be their rightful position as feeders to the Super Rugby and test levels. If the NRC is to get up and running, it might have to be imposed on the SS/SRU. Maybe have those teams pick up the salary for the professionals for each and every game they play for the club?

 

[Tomikin]

Well that isn’t what I said was it Tomikin?

How about you consider options which don’t alienate club rugby and those fans/players.

Okay, my comment wasn't really helpful...

Do you really believe that clubs will fail if they have their players in rep teams during the season? Clubs will promote other players like they do during Super Rugby and if we start the let's just call it the NRC a few weeks after the final with the same teams without international we can fit in a metric shit ton more of high-quality matches...

Someone mentioned that the difference in PROFESSIONAL matches played between Marcus Smith and Noah Leoliso is Marcus has played 123 times and Noah has around 27 caps.

Wouldnt that be better for Australian Rugby..

 

[Dan54]

Now I not suggesting this is an answer, but some years ago in the Mighty Nua, when rep rugby started which was just after the club finals, we ran another comp for prem team without their rep players, and players were brought up from 2nd, U20s etc for a few games. Was very much a comp for players more than supporters (although still had plenty of them). My son had his first games for Prems in this comp as 19yo as did 3-4nothers who were stepping up the next year. Is worth considering something along those lines if NRC got going, it didn't go whole rep season,(about 4-5 weeks max) but found it was good for players who wanted to play a bit more. Sometimes we forget about the average rugby player in our comps etc I think.

 

[Adam84]

Okay, my comment wasn't really helpful...

Do you really believe that clubs will fail if they have their players in rep teams during the season? Clubs will promote other players like they do during Super Rugby and if we start the let's just call it the NRC a few weeks after the final with the same teams without international we can fit in a metric shit ton more of high-quality matches...

Someone mentioned that the difference in PROFESSIONAL matches played between Marcus Smith and Noah Leoliso is Marcus has played 123 times and Noah has around 27 caps.

Wouldnt that be better for Australian Rugby..

I’ve been a staunch supporter of a 3rd tier for years, this isn’t a debate about the benefits of a tier, rather the process of achieving that.

Alienating club rugby and its fans isn’t the means to do that, club rugby holds its part as a critical piece of Australian rugby. And right or wrong, the weight of political influence of club rugby is strong and will derail any proposal where the attitude and impact towards clubs is “tough shit”. It will just be wasted energy and money that RA doesn’t have.

what is better for Australian rugby is an outcome where we get a 3rd tier, and don’t go through a civil war or destroy club rugby in the process.

 

[dru]

I’ve been a staunch supporter of a 3rd tier for years, this isn’t a debate about the benefits of a tier, rather the process of achieving that.

Alienating club rugby and its fans isn’t the means to do that, club rugby holds its part as a critical piece of Australian rugby. And right or wrong, the weight of political influence of club rugby is strong and will derail any proposal where the attitude and impact towards clubs is “tough shit”. It will just be wasted energy and money that RA doesn’t have.

what is better for Australian rugby is an outcome where we get a 3rd tier, and don’t go through a civil war or destroy club rugby in the process.

the clear take-away from this, one way or another, irrespective of pain or built-in positioning from SRU clubs, NSWRU and the Waratahs, any successful process going forward MUST have buy-in from the Sydney club movement. From Subbies up.

 

[Dctarget]

Would Super Rugby ever continue through the internationals like the NH competitions do? Or do we not have the depth with only 5 teams. I find it an interesting time with the leading teams handicapped.

 

[Rebel man]

It's to give them game time to justify their inclusion in the squad. Even if they only get 5000 into the stadium midweek it's hard to see what the downside is, unless one of the A players picks up an injury, but that's a risk at anytime. You'd think that longer term the net benefits would far outweigh the negatives.

Also Aus A is our nominated second team. Meaning capping fringe players at that level will mean they can’t go and play test rugby elsewhere

 

[Wilson]

Would Super Rugby ever continue through the internationals like the NH competitions do? Or do we not have the depth with only 5 teams. I find it an interesting time with the leading teams handicapped.

The used to pause the season for the June tests and then worked hard to get hem moved to July to avoid the break, so I can't really see Australia or New Zealand going back to that.

 

[Rebel man]

This is a beaut little video on the importance of having a system that produces cohesion if you want to have successful professional teams:

The rise and decline of Australian Rugby Union - EXPLAINED

A short summary analysis of how Australian rugby union and the national team known as The Wallabies rose to success in the 1980s and then dropped in internat...

t.co

It's not a call to cut a Super Rugby team, but I think it does explain the key reason why the Wallabies have fallen from their lofty position since the early 2000's.

That’s 10 minutes of my life I will never get back. That video is a load of shit France will win the 6 nations and they have 28 pro clubs that they draw players from