Australian Rugby / RA

[Gnostic]

The Clubs' point is that the pie has significantly grown, but there is still ZERO coming to them.



At it's heart, this is about control. The new money into grassroots the ARU want control of, to the point of bypassing the clubs.





And so it comes to the question of who is better placed and set up to work on the ground. Volunteers in a community in it for the long term, or a professional organisation run from the top down.



In my view, the obvious answer would be that then need to work together. The professional organisation would realise that the local communities can do things that the pro organisation could never do, or realistically afford to do.



From what I've heard and read though, when it comes to a relationship the clubs have come to the table and provided - changing seasons, supporting NRC - the ARU refuse to.



Two other observations:



1 - I personally have quite a bit of experience over the years trying to work with the ARU through this site, putting forward ideas for collaboration that would benefit what I thought was our shared mission. In the end it never went anywhere because if the ARU doesn't own it, they're not interested.



In the coming weeks you'll see that now the ARU has some cash, they'll be having their own stab at what we do. There's already a podcast. *Sigh*





2 - A lot of what I read in this thread sounds like "f*ck you Uni/Randwick/Eastwood" my club has never had as much as you, etc.



I get that - it's part of the passion of club rugby. But as Gnostic points out above, it's cutting off your nose to spite your face.

This is a big point I that I took out of this whole exercise and your experience in attempting to get collaborative efforts off the ground re-inforces that. I may have the Tahs emblem and Wicks on my profile, because I have been a life long supporter. But after living in the country for the last 30m odd years I have no affiliations. with any club, my sole motivation is rugby and wanting to see the game growing again as it was in the early 90s with sold out finals series for the Shute at the SFS such was the feeling and growth in the game.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I would prefer you don't tread in parks you don't know about.
A group of us have put this together with the Junior & Senior clubs, we have sought sponsors of which I am one, and put in some considerable hours and thought, and we will review each school term, and do it repeatedly well.

People wake up and go for a run or gym to keep fit and strong.
Or they can wake up eat shit and watch tele all day, because it's to hard to put on a shoe and that is their excuse or call.

Club I support is top shelf and this is about rugby, not excuses.

Dave you've completely ignored what I am asking, and just backed up your view of your club, that I said we accept as being correct.

 

[barbarian]

But after living in the country for the last 30m odd years I have no affiliations

Jesus mate I knew you were old, but I didn't think you were THAT old!!
.

 

[Dave Beat]

Dave you've completely ignored what I am asking, and just backed up your view of your club, that I said we accept as being correct.

I apologise - I stopped at this point given past reading and didn't give your post full viewing.


So at the end of 2016 we look at the results and find that Manly have strengthened a rugby stronghold, Randwick have done nothing and things have gone backwards, and despite Parra and Penrith putting in even more work than Manly they've only managed to maintain numbers.

So for 2016, the strong (Manly) get funding, the weak (Parra and Penrith) get nothing


You have mentioned 3 other clubs, I'll through in a forth.

• Parra - They are working hard, I'm noticing results and have different challenges, I reference this at grade level I'm not in touch with the juniors however i know their kids eat alot of Taro and are bigger than the beaches boys.
• Randwick - I don't believe they are doing nothing, but could they do more i cant answer?
• Penrith - cant comment.
• Sydney Uni - this is not being critical!! Because of who they are they could collect the cream of the crop, they have also dragged clubs up in the process. But are they investing in the mini's and juniors, do they need to, if they dont - do nothing get nothing.

I've provided my ideas with the way the ARU could use Premier Clubs to grow our game - I haven't bagged them.

Since Bill has been involved there have been more changes for the better, than the worse - BUT - rugby is great because of Grass Roots, all shapes and sizes, you can start the day playing, spend some time behind the BBQ watching first grade, and then finish with a few drinks. Don't remove that from our game.

 

[Braveheart81]

Jesus mate I knew you were old, but I didn't think you were THAT old!!
.

Gnostic truly is a fossil.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I'd personally like to see a sum of, say, $250k available annually to junior clubs for individual grants.

Clubs would be able to apply for funding by submitting a fully costed request, and the ARU would grant funding on a case by case basis. Would go towards things like equipment, ground upgrades, training for coaches and administrators, advertising and marketing expenses.

Does such a fund exist at the moment? I'm not involved in junior rugby so don't have much understanding of the funding arrangements at present.
.

Theres certainly government funding (grants eg gambling fund) that the QRU as an example will help clubs access.

Would have thought all unions would be across them

These are the sort of thing that the development officers get done.

 

[TOCC]

Part of development officer's and governing body's responsibility is tapping into government grants which may be available, AFL has done this very well for a long time and the QRU have done it well in recent years as well... Just little things like changing room upgrades, lighting for the fields etc... But it all adds up


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[Dave Beat]

Theres certainly government funding (grants eg gambling fund) that the QRU as an example will help clubs access.

Would have thought all unions would be across them

These are the sort of thing that the development officers get done.

Yeah I've come across a couple in NSW which relate to schooling.

• But you need to have the school agree to rugby first.
• That means engaging the PSSA in the area so all schools can play.
• That means you need to find all schools in your PSSA area.
• Then find the rugby lovers who can work on the respective schools.

So as per this mornings post ARU sets up regional manager/s (State Unions), who out source to Premier Clubs.
Premier clubs work with village clubs and schools - it aint easy, it will require a collective force - to expect the NSW / QRU / VIC etc RU to do it - you are expecting top much.

 

[barbarian]

Yeah I've come across a couple in NSW which relate to schooling.

• But you need to have the school agree to rugby first.
• That means engaging the PSSA in the area so all schools can play.
• That means you need to find all schools in your PSSA area.
• Then find the rugby lovers who can work on the respective schools.

So as per this mornings post ARU sets up regional manager/s (State Unions), who out source to Premier Clubs.

Premier clubs work with village clubs and schools - it aint easy, it will require a collective force - to expect the NSW / QRU / VIC etc RU to do it - you are expecting top much.

In this case, Dave, could an ARU Development Officer do the actions outlined in the bullet points?
.

 

[Dave Beat]

In this case, Dave, could an ARU Development Officer do the actions outlined in the bullet points?
.

Yeah possibly;

We've been in touch with Steve OBrien and then Luke Thiessen who have both been fantastic with their help. As I have said the help and support is there but doors need to be opened.

Each school would be different, so a different approach.

North Balgowlah Primary has a headmaster that likes rugby, they are in a different PSSA - but he was great spending an hour or so with us sharing advice.

What shits me;
School has Eagle Tag and then nothing.
So they push Paul Kelly Gala day.
Of the boys at our school playing weekend sport i reckon there would be about
50% soccer
> 45% rugby (league / union)
< 5% AFL
How does AFL even get a look in?

 

[Gnostic]

Another point in my long ramble that was lost in the very bad idea of bringing up the NRC is professional development.
the following points must be considered significant failings from the ARU IMO, given their totalitarian control of the fiscal windfalls associated with the elite level of the game.

1. Referees :- There has not been a consistent test level referee from Australia since Dickenson. Where is the investment in pathways for referees. I attempted last year and this year to get on a course and basically got told there isn't one atm, and when at the last minute one came up I would have had to take the time off work (hard when you run a small business with two blokes) and pay may way to Sydney for the entire time. Nothing in the country.
2. Coaching :- forget national coaches making an appearance and kissing babies at few events. Where is the National scrum school. WTF does the HPU do apart from investigate sexting scandals and paying themselves. Where is our Gilbert Enoka? These are the sort of National resources that should be funded at a national level and working with juniors through to seniors and they need to be staffed by proven individuals with the ability to coach and mentor other coaches. Too often (and I'll use the scrum as an example) we have seen coaches at national level (and state) get the gig because they have the bit of paper to say they can coach and they played at that level, but actual performances declined.
3. Super Rugby :- after a decade of the Force they have essentially been bailed out by the ARU though it will be spun differently. The Rebels are broke. The Tahs not much better, the Brumbies may or may not have issues once the investigations over property deals are completed. As it stands the Reds are the only 100% financially viable province in the country. If we use a top down management model (and even if you don't) it is essential that the leadership and management be of the absolute highest integrity, probity and management example. IMO we haven't had that with executive receiving vast (comparative) sums in bonuses and remuneration. My previous comparison to the large banks again rings true in this aspect given these monetary sums were received even though significant losses were posted during those times. Such leadership at the national level provides the example and model for those at the lower levels to follow, so the predicament that the provinces are in should be of no surprise to head office.
4. Super Rugby (again) :- I understand the rationale for the expansion of the competition, but the significant danger is the degradation of the elite product that has been built over the history of the SH competition dating back to the Super 6. NZ has so far been immune to a large degree to the loss of players due to their brilliant grass roots structures and "player development production line" but South Africa with its political interference and unstable economy has been hit hard and we can see the quality of their sides has dropped significantly in recent years. Australia likewise has struggled at times and will be tested very heavily next year with the losses to NH clubs rugby.

 

[Gnostic]

Jesus mate I knew you were old, but I didn't think you were THAT old!!

.

I'm younger than Cyclo!!!

 

[Dave Beat]

Another point in my long ramble that was lost in the very bad idea of bringing up the NRC is professional development.
the following points must be considered significant failings from the ARU IMO, given their totalitarian control of the fiscal windfalls associated with the elite level of the game.

1. Referees :- There has not been a consistent test level referee from Australia since Dickenson. Where is the investment in pathways for referees. I attempted last year and this year to get on a course and basically got told there isn't one atm, and when at the last minute one came up I would have had to take the time off work (hard when you run a small business with two blokes) and pay may way to Sydney for the entire time. Nothing in the country.
2. Coaching :- forget national coaches making an appearance and kissing babies at few events. Where is the National scrum school. WTF does the HPU do apart from investigate sexting scandals and paying themselves. Where is our Gilbert Enoka? These are the sort of National resources that should be funded at a national level and working with juniors through to seniors and they need to be staffed by proven individuals with the ability to coach and mentor other coaches. Too often (and I'll use the scrum as an example) we have seen coaches at national level (and state) get the gig because they have the bit of paper to say they can coach and they played at that level, but actual performances declined.
3. Super Rugby :- after a decade of the Force they have essentially been bailed out by the ARU though it will be spun differently. The Rebels are broke. The Tahs not much better, the Brumbies may or may not have issues once the investigations over property deals are completed. As it stands the Reds are the only 100% financially viable province in the country. If we use a top down management model (and even if you don't) it is essential that the leadership and management be of the absolute highest integrity, probity and management example. IMO we haven't had that with executive receiving vast (comparative) sums in bonuses and remuneration. My previous comparison to the large banks again rings true in this aspect given these monetary sums were received even though significant losses were posted during those times. Such leadership at the national level provides the example and model for those at the lower levels to follow, so the predicament that the provinces are in should be of no surprise to head office.
4. Super Rugby (again) :- I understand the rationale for the expansion of the competition, but the significant danger is the degradation of the elite product that has been built over the history of the SH competition dating back to the Super 6. NZ has so far been immune to a large degree to the loss of players due to their brilliant grass roots structures and "player development production line" but South Africa with its political interference and unstable economy has been hit hard and we can see the quality of their sides has dropped significantly in recent years. Australia likewise has struggled at times and will be tested very heavily next year with the losses to NH clubs rugby.

GAGR at its best.

 

[wamberal]

Gnostic truly is a fossil.

You think he's a fossil?


He's just a lad.

 

[Braveheart81]

You think he's a fossil?


He's just a lad.

It was in relation to him saying he moved to the country 30m years ago.

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[dru]

It was in relation to him saying he moved to the country 30m years ago.

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For once I want slow. Very droll. ;-)

 

[7083]

Of course the Shute Shield is closer to the grass roots than the ARU. Much like the NSWRU has to be closer to the grass roots than NSW Waratahs Limited.

Shute Shield is not close enough to the Subbies though, which is where the vast bulk of the grass roots sits in Sydney.

ILTW I hear you. ARU are not beyond raproach.

The latest Annual Reports published are 2014 which I realise isnt now.

Still, NSWRU recieved just under $0.5M direct from ARU and another just over $1.5M in licence fee from Waratahs Ltd (as mentioned previousl a licence that would be worthless without ARU managing the professional game). These funds are added to other income to disperse services to the Grass Roots.

EDIT: In this year the ARU funded the associate unions to $3.7M, a hell of a funding priority given they had a deficit of $6.3M that same year.

That seems appropriate to me, but if you are looking for ARU logos on those services I suspect you might not find them.

But the NSWRU, being closer to the grass roots, apprpriately lists many grass root services.

At the same time ARU lists some of the following (not an exhaustive list) which sound like grass roots input to me. I'm not close enough though, so would to hear how effective those involved found it:
VIVA 7s
Australian Sports Commission -Sporting Schools Programme
National Rugby Week
NAIDOC cup
Pathways to Gold
Junior Gold Cup
There are others

ARU simply can not run the grass roots. Its role is to support the unions. Direct funding of initiatives needs to be prioritised and balanced with the finances.

Btw the ARU report 2014 talks about the fee introduction a funding model for self sustaining at the grass roots - national registration fee automatically directed to the State to provide services. Did this end up somewhere else? Damn right to be annoyed if that is the case.

Look, I realise for every "like" I get on this topic, if there was a "donkey" button I'd get two. But I sincerely think the ARU is not being properly represented and I do find Dwyer and Papworth shallow and obvious.

Anyway, someone said earlier that its getting boring. Probably.

They charge kids $660 and up for the "privilege" of playJunior Gold. It's a disgrace!! League reps is free .. As in $0 to be payed by the kids. The ARU need a shake up. Piss off the fat cats and put in people who are actually there for the whole sport, not just GPS/private school boys.

 

[Train Without a Station]

They charge kids $660 and up for the "privilege" of playJunior Gold. It's a disgrace!! League reps is free .. As in $0 to be payed by the kids. The ARU need a shake up. Piss off the fat cats and put in people who are actually there for the whole sport, not just GPS/private school boys.

That is the league rep teams which represent teams like Souths, Manly, etc. correct? Does the NRL pay those costs, or do the NSWRU clubs?

 

[TOCC]

Leagues clubs pay those costs.. They vary from club to club depending on the level of leagues clubs supports... South Sydney juniors for instance get free registration, a free training jerseys, shorts and socks all because of the funding from the leagues club.


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[Quick Hands]

Of the boys at our school playing weekend sport i reckon there would be about
50% soccer
> 45% rugby (league / union)
< 5% AFL
How does AFL even get a look in?

They are relentless in their push and they have almost limitless funding. What they say to schools is:

We'll provide coaching, umpires, uniforms, admin for the competition and support for the programme during school time. (EDIT: This is all done by staff paid for by the AFL - not parent volunteers and not teachers)

This means that overworked and under-resourced school teachers don't have to fulfil any of those roles.