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Australian Rugby / RA

T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Leagues clubs pay those costs.. They vary from club to club depending on the level of leagues clubs supports. South Sydney juniors for instance get free registration, a free training jerseys, shorts and socks all because of the funding from the leagues club.


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Thank you TOCC. My exact point. People criticize the ARU for not doing things which the other Codes' administrative bodies don't do.

The problem with the JGC is there is not the established commercial entities to fund it and if it was the Shute Shield clubs, they are not capable of funding it the same way that the NRL and NSWRL clubs are.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Leagues clubs pay those costs.. They vary from club to club depending on the level of leagues clubs supports. South Sydney juniors for instance get free registration, a free training jerseys, shorts and socks all because of the funding from the leagues club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's for playing in the local comp.
Rep footy (SG Ball etc) is funded by NRL grants.
I heard Gould explain it on radio last year.
NRL funding is apportioned to seperate areas of the game to each club.
NRL,pres cup,juniors etc.
Money for kids can't be used to pay Mitchell Pearces fine for example....
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
That's for playing in the local comp.
Rep footy (SG Ball etc) is funded by NRL grants.
I heard Gould explain it on radio last year.
NRL funding is apportioned to seperate areas of the game to each club.
NRL,pres cup,juniors etc.
Money for kids can't be used to pay Mitchell Pearces fine for example..

But until now hasn't the NRL grant only been equal to the salary cap?
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
As I understand it,their NRL salary cap is $6.1M & the grant is currently $7.5M pa.

Amazingly,despite this,4 of their clubs are under NRL administration.....
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
If the ARU is worried by how clubs might spend the money, there is a simple solution:

The money is available as tied grants. For example clubs could hire x number of development officers (what they deem they need) and the ARU pays the salaries as opposed to giving the clubs a grant and hoping that they do the right thing. Same could apply to junior rep teams, colts programmes, general managers etc.

It would be foolish of any governing body to simply hand out cash to anyone and simply hoping that everyone will make the best use of it. Either tied grants as above or requirements than the spending of the money be accounted for in prescribed areas.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
As I understand it,their NRL salary cap is $6.1M & the grant is currently $7.5M pa.

Amazingly,despite this,4 of their clubs are under NRL administration...

I'm pretty sure it's the first time in history that the grant has exceeded the grant though...happy to be proven wrong
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
As I understand it,their NRL salary cap is $6.1M & the grant is currently $7.5M pa.

Amazingly,despite this,4 of their clubs are under NRL administration...

I was under the impression the current grant was 100% of the cap but the clubs were lobbying for a 130% grant.

So either it currently is, or it will be soon by the sounds of it.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
If the ARU is worried by how clubs might spend the money, there is a simple solution:

The money is available as tied grants. For example clubs could hire x number of development officers (what they deem they need) and the ARU pays the salaries as opposed to giving the clubs a grant and hoping that they do the right thing. Same could apply to junior rep teams, colts programmes, general managers etc.

It would be foolish of any governing body to simply hand out cash to anyone and simply hoping that everyone will make the best use of it. Either tied grants as above or requirements than the spending of the money be accounted for in prescribed areas.

By QH then you get my question previously to Dave. What do we do about the regions where the clubs fail to?

By the time we look at the data we are already another year down the track and behind the 8 ball. Then the ARU does their "job"? On the smaller scale surely this is far less efficient.

Or some areas get left behind completely.

If every club was doing good work like Manly it would be a moot point. In fact this discussion would not be going on because rugby would be in a stronger state.

But surely we need a consistent approach and effort? Understandably every area is different with different challenges, but if we leave it up to different clubs we get different levels of effort. If they are only getting back what they put in to a point, it's likely those that haven't already seen value in it, will not see value in it again.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
By QH then you get my question previously to Dave. What do we do about the regions where the clubs fail to?

By the time we look at the data we are already another year down the track and behind the 8 ball. Then the ARU does their "job"? On the smaller scale surely this is far less efficient.

Or some areas get left behind completely.

If every club was doing good work like Manly it would be a moot point. In fact this discussion would not be going on because rugby would be in a stronger state.

But surely we need a consistent approach and effort? Understandably every area is different with different challenges, but if we leave it up to different clubs we get different levels of effort. If they are only getting back what they put in to a point, it's likely those that haven't already seen value in it, will not see value in it again.

I'd caution against a one size fits all approach where the ARU imposes from above what they see as necessary. By definition they are far removed from the grass roots and aren't in the best position to know what specific needs different areas need or want.

Rugby isn't that flush with money that we can afford to waste a cent.

Manly for example faces some similar and some different issues than an area like Parramatta or Randwick, so it would be folly to the ARU to try to apply exactly the same solutions.

Funding something to me is completely different from implemeting something. The ARU should fund (a) what they can afford and (b) that which will lead to expansion of the game (in this case at the grass roots)

Only fund what is being done properly. Support the funding with resources. If the people/clubs at the grass roots aren't doing it properly; cut off funding and/or take over the programme. If clubs are doing good work; helpt them with funding and resources. This option would I am sure be more cost effective and achieve much more than centralised micro-management of each and every programme.
 

7083

Allen Oxlade (6)
That is the league rep teams which represent teams like Souths, Manly, etc. correct? Does the NRL pay those costs, or do the NSWRU clubs?



Yes talking about SG Ball and Harold Matts. I assume the clubs pay but all of know is their rep players don't pay a cracker yet we ask our JGC players for $660 plus!!!! I've said it before and I'll keep saying it.... It's a disgrace
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Yes talking about SG Ball and Harold Matts. I assume the clubs pay but all of know is their rep players don't pay a cracker yet we ask our JGC players for $660 plus!!!! I've said it before and I'll keep saying it.. It's a disgrace

So it's disgraceful from the ARU that NSWRL clubs pay the cost of SG Ball and Harrold Matthews is your point?

I think you have completely missed my point and just want to complain about the ARU.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
QH as I noted, every area is different and will require a different approach.

But if we get to taking over from some clubs and leaving others surely this whole haphazard implementation has got to be wildly inefficient.

If the ARU or NSWRU has to have the staff to implement half of the clubs' work in this proposal they will need staff and infrastructure that will be more half the total cost. They basically just won't have boots on the ground in a few areas.

Which then funnels money away from the grants to the good clubs.

It has to be a consistent approach. They need to manage it all, have the staff in place and do it properly or do it not at all and not have the majority of the staff, only having people to administer and act as a conduit.

The ARU have made their call it seems. They're putting it all in the basket of doing it themselves consistently, but most importantly starting now. Not waiting to see how it pans out with the clubs first.

Guys like Dave if you have an issue with this, in my view you should be looking at your contemporaries who are NOT doing it as well as you, as you are somewhat guilty by association, rather than merit. Which is unfortunately what's going to occur if you try and implement any sort of consistent effort.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
QH as I noted, every area is different and will require a different approach.

But if we get to taking over from some clubs and leaving others surely this whole haphazard implementation has got to be wildly inefficient.

If the ARU or NSWRU has to have the staff to implement half of the clubs' work in this proposal they will need staff and infrastructure that will be more half the total cost. They basically just won't have boots on the ground in a few areas.

Which then funnels money away from the grants to the good clubs.

It has to be a consistent approach. They need to manage it all, have the staff in place and do it properly or do it not at all and not have the majority of the staff, only having people to administer and act as a conduit.

The ARU have made their call it seems. They're putting it all in the basket of doing it themselves consistently, but most importantly starting now. Not waiting to see how it pans out with the clubs first.

Guys like Dave if you have an issue with this, in my view you should be looking at your contemporaries who are NOT doing it as well as you, as you are somewhat guilty by association, rather than merit. Which is unfortunately what's going to occur if you try and implement any sort of consistent effort.


Sort of follow this.
  • Every area is different so requires a different approach - agree - people in touch with the area are the grass roots clubs.
  • ARU / NSWRU need to have the staff - agree - my concern there is the cost and the magnitude of the area, infrastructure, and mgmt of it. I feel like it could be an expense that could be avoided / managed better.
  • I still see best return will see best benefit, and it will ensure the engagement is very sticky in the areas we need it most.
Then i get lost with the - Dave if you have an issue - some of the fundamentals i think we are agreeing with. Simply, work needs to be done -
  • support the areas that are doing the work.
  • and work on the areas, and implementing structures that need work.
I still say if Premier Clubs do nothing they get nothing - that's business.
  • Got another great email yesterday about work being done with local schools.
  • Allambie Jets first training yesterday - great see kids everywhere and number up on last year.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
What I mean is if you feel the levels above aren't working with you and are somewhat undercutting you, and that Manly could do it better in their region, the disappointment should be directed at the other SS clubs, because their failure to do anything are why the levels above want to control this.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
I think the levels above need to do work, they have also said something has to happen.

I dont direct it at other Shute Shield clubs though because im not in position to, i dont think the ARU is in a position to either because they are out of touch. I dont mean that in a negative way, it is meant to be in a constructive way - get in touch.

The argy bargy is good - it has opened eyes and shared thoughts.
 

p.Tah

John Thornett (49)
NEW Australian Rugby Union chairman Cameron Clyne says attacks on the ARU for abandoning the Shute Shield are “disappointing” given he recently met with all club presidents and pledged to help tackle big issues facing Sydney club rugby — including funding.

But despite a flair-up of criticism this week, Clyne said he remains keen to engage in further talks and is even open to re-directing money to the Shute Shield clubs if strong enough plans are put forward.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby/...g/news-story/79f41fce016080fc716ef77b9e38772a

I'm not sure on which side the truth sits, but Papworth's rant probably should have been reviewed after everyone had slept on it. In saying that he has passion for the game and we do need lots more of it. I'd just prefer we were all pulling in the same direction.

At least the ARU, NSWRU and clubs will continue dialogue.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby/...g/news-story/79f41fce016080fc716ef77b9e38772a

I'm not sure on which side the truth sits, but Papworth's rant probably should have been reviewed after everyone had slept on it. In saying that he has passion for the game and we do need lots more of it. I'd just prefer we were all pulling in the same direction.

At least the ARU, NSWRU and clubs will continue dialogue.


I think getting it out there from both sides could result in good things.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
"There were a number of basic factual errors (in Papworth’s article) which easily could have been resolved with a phone call, but I suppose that doesn’t make the story as compelling.”

Couldn't agree more. Papworth is happy to make blatant false statements because the truth isn't anywhere near as good a story.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Sent an email to the ARU seeking stats on other codes.
Explained what and why and asked if records of number of kids playing different codes in certain age groups.

They said "We do not provide statistics on any other sporting code other than Rugby Union"

I would have thought it would be important to know our competitors in this market. I thought the Junior Levies being paid may have been reinvested into the game at the level we are trying to grow it and this sort of information may have been available.

Disappointed.

How can you set a game plan, business plan when you don't know your goal.
 
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