Australia v Scotland, 3:00pm 17 June Sydney Football Stadium
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Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
You forgot the NSW Country RU, who are apparently indispensable.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
As posted on the front page in response to a great post from Who.
The lack of exit strategy is just ridiculous. It is well known I do not rate Larkham as a coach and it is for these reasons. Despite having apprenticed under White he failed to take on the fundamentals taught to every team from kids up to 1sts, such as basic strategies for exits and the ability to have a number of options to distract the defence. So despite Foley having a pop gun kick (even when he is on the field) and always under huge pressure because the Wallabies use no other option they have for three seasons (this being the third) not mixed it up and used the other options such as DHP and Hunt is this test. Or how about this novel idea teach (you know actually coach some skills) Folau how to kick and tell him if he wants to remain Wallabies Fullback it is a required skill for the position.
Support lines as you say are a joke. Hooper made a brilliant break and it was a full 3 seconds before Higgers arrived and did two parts of SFA missing the cleanout totally. Higgers is a huge disappointment, despite his physical attributes and undeniable current ability and more potential he just has not played to it in tests.
On passing - so many passes Wallaby players make to static receivers, can they pass to a moving target? And you mentioned that you want you best passer send the ball to your best kicker for clearance, well Genia last night should have been hooked, he was as bad as Nick Phipps at his worst with the added value of box kicks. I'll give Larkham a tip, get some videos of Connor Murray and sit Genia down and show him what an international 9 plays like. His long association with Aaron Smith through playing obviously hasn't rubbed off and the videos can free up Larkham for what ever the F%$# else he does because it certainly isn't brilliant attack patterns.
On defence - in 2014 and 2015 the Tahs and then the Wallabies had a very efficient and strong defence with Grey as coach. Since that time it has degraded at a rapid pace. What has happened? There are holes everywhere but they are especially easily out flanked and the kick chase is lazy and disorganised. Grey clearly showed he has the ability to come up with a plan and have it executed very well, that plan has been found out at Super Level and at test level, can he develop a new one or evolve the old one to meet current situations. Given his comments about easy fixes last year and this year with the Tahs I now have serious doubts.
All this comes back to Cheika, he can be excused for taking Grey to the Wallabies as he had a winning formula at the Tahs, there is no excuse for Larkham, unproven and undeserved now being totally found out and this is Cheika's fault. Just think we have Larkham as the great anointed successor to Cheika.
After last year Cheika is or should be under some serious pressure, and it isn't just the losing that is the issue, its the manner or it, and No Michael it is not to do with passion, it is the lack of skill and the basics being provided to the players of which the lack of effective exit strategies are perhaps the best example after last night.
The lack of exit strategy is just ridiculous. It is well known I do not rate Larkham as a coach and it is for these reasons. Despite having apprenticed under White he failed to take on the fundamentals taught to every team from kids up to 1sts, such as basic strategies for exits and the ability to have a number of options to distract the defence. So despite Foley having a pop gun kick (even when he is on the field) and always under huge pressure because the Wallabies use no other option they have for three seasons (this being the third) not mixed it up and used the other options such as DHP and Hunt is this test. Or how about this novel idea teach (you know actually coach some skills) Folau how to kick and tell him if he wants to remain Wallabies Fullback it is a required skill for the position.
Support lines as you say are a joke. Hooper made a brilliant break and it was a full 3 seconds before Higgers arrived and did two parts of SFA missing the cleanout totally. Higgers is a huge disappointment, despite his physical attributes and undeniable current ability and more potential he just has not played to it in tests.
On passing - so many passes Wallaby players make to static receivers, can they pass to a moving target? And you mentioned that you want you best passer send the ball to your best kicker for clearance, well Genia last night should have been hooked, he was as bad as Nick Phipps at his worst with the added value of box kicks. I'll give Larkham a tip, get some videos of Connor Murray and sit Genia down and show him what an international 9 plays like. His long association with Aaron Smith through playing obviously hasn't rubbed off and the videos can free up Larkham for what ever the F%$# else he does because it certainly isn't brilliant attack patterns.
On defence - in 2014 and 2015 the Tahs and then the Wallabies had a very efficient and strong defence with Grey as coach. Since that time it has degraded at a rapid pace. What has happened? There are holes everywhere but they are especially easily out flanked and the kick chase is lazy and disorganised. Grey clearly showed he has the ability to come up with a plan and have it executed very well, that plan has been found out at Super Level and at test level, can he develop a new one or evolve the old one to meet current situations. Given his comments about easy fixes last year and this year with the Tahs I now have serious doubts.
All this comes back to Cheika, he can be excused for taking Grey to the Wallabies as he had a winning formula at the Tahs, there is no excuse for Larkham, unproven and undeserved now being totally found out and this is Cheika's fault. Just think we have Larkham as the great anointed successor to Cheika.
After last year Cheika is or should be under some serious pressure, and it isn't just the losing that is the issue, its the manner or it, and No Michael it is not to do with passion, it is the lack of skill and the basics being provided to the players of which the lack of effective exit strategies are perhaps the best example after last night.
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
My wife had never even heard of rugby before we met twenty years ago. She quickly grew to love it, particularly Eastwood and the Brumbies. She loved the style of play of both outfits.
She has never really understood all the rules (does anybody?) but she has an instinctive understanding of what looks fair and what doesn't it. She certainly understands what is good rugby to watch and what isn't. She enjoys watching the Shute Shield on Saturday arvos. Sadly we only get to Sydney once a year to watch the Woodies, but she (and I) are happy to watch club rugby on FTA.
As for SS and Test match rugby, we are really sick of most of it. It has gotten to the stage where I record everything, and we watch it using a heavy application of the fast forward option. If we lose, we usually do not watch the game, either SS or internationals.
Are we unusual? Probably. But I reckon that our viewing behaviours are duplicated one way or another through the whole potential viewing audience.
She has never really understood all the rules (does anybody?) but she has an instinctive understanding of what looks fair and what doesn't it. She certainly understands what is good rugby to watch and what isn't. She enjoys watching the Shute Shield on Saturday arvos. Sadly we only get to Sydney once a year to watch the Woodies, but she (and I) are happy to watch club rugby on FTA.
As for SS and Test match rugby, we are really sick of most of it. It has gotten to the stage where I record everything, and we watch it using a heavy application of the fast forward option. If we lose, we usually do not watch the game, either SS or internationals.
Are we unusual? Probably. But I reckon that our viewing behaviours are duplicated one way or another through the whole potential viewing audience.
ShtinaTina
Alex Ross (28)
I don't disagree there are some issues with the team.
Do people legitimately think when they train they just sit around drinking tea?
I don't think warm up is a good indicator of how they train, but it does seem to set a tone for the game. It did feel like an age in the 1st half for them to settle. The 2nd half started off better.
It was an entertaining match to watch, the result wasn't what we wanted. We should've done more to win.
But had they won last night, would there be as much negativity?
Do people legitimately think when they train they just sit around drinking tea?
I don't think warm up is a good indicator of how they train, but it does seem to set a tone for the game. It did feel like an age in the 1st half for them to settle. The 2nd half started off better.
It was an entertaining match to watch, the result wasn't what we wanted. We should've done more to win.
But had they won last night, would there be as much negativity?
amirite
Chilla Wilson (44)
There's a logic there (and statistical proof). I think it's mostly based around the fact that:
- The more phases you hold the ball, the more likely you are to lose it.
- If you haven't scored yet after many phases, you're probably not going forward, and thus are more likely to lose it rather than start going forward, and thus score.
Yeah, it's usually part of the rationale for box kicking in the middle of the field when you're not making headway going forward.
Heavyd
Arch Winning (36)
I've just put myself through the pain of watching it again and I can comfortably confirm it is the worst Wallaby performance in history.
The most disappointing aspect is the overall skill level from 1-15. Catching, passing..the basics just aren't there. What was Chiekas game plan? I still cannot work out what they were trying to achieve. Just so disappointed and whilst I like Cheika his time as coach must now come under review. He is selecting and supposedly coaching the team so this disaster rests with him.
Players never to put on a Wallaby Jersey again include Foley, Genia, Carter, Moore, DHP.
All Blacks may well beat us by 70+
The most disappointing aspect is the overall skill level from 1-15. Catching, passing..the basics just aren't there. What was Chiekas game plan? I still cannot work out what they were trying to achieve. Just so disappointed and whilst I like Cheika his time as coach must now come under review. He is selecting and supposedly coaching the team so this disaster rests with him.
Players never to put on a Wallaby Jersey again include Foley, Genia, Carter, Moore, DHP.
All Blacks may well beat us by 70+
Micheal
Alan Cameron (40)
Few observations on the game:
+ I actually thought it was rather enjoyable. I was at the ground with my Beliebers (according to Dismal) and the atmosphere was pretty good. Absolutely ashamed to be an Australian Rugby fan though - people in the crowd would rather you fiddled with yourself than actually make some sort of noise as the spectacle unfolds in front of you - the Scottish fans were louder than the Australian fans at a fucking test in Sydney. Absurd.
+ Hanigan is lightweight. Good prospect but not quite there yet. As someone said, he gets folded in contact too often.
+ I'm so, so off Genia. He's absolutely ponderous, is useless at putting ball to foot (should be banned from ever kicking again) and lacks the running game he used to have. Which brings me to my next point:
+ Switch. Up. The. Point. Of. Attack. How many times does it need to be said? Why don't we do it? Without it our attack becomes utterly predictable. The 9 has to snipe just to let the know the defence he might, the 10 has to run the pill, we've got to throw inside balls and we have to employ an offensive kicking game. Australian Rugby has an irrational phobia of the chip-and-chase. The All Blacks are using little dinky kicks more than ever and its going to become a major part of the game in the next few years (especially in response to a rush defence).
+ Kuridrani. Useless. Was falling off tackles all night, throwing passes a five-year-old-girl-whose-never-held-a-rugby-ball-before-in-her-life would be ashamed of, caught out of position, the whole lot. Can't wait for Kerevi to return.
+ Nabuli was ghostly. Would've preferred Naivalu or Speight. DHP wasn't much better.
+ Quade was really good from the bench. Happy to see him with some form. Likewise Hardwick - the kids got some real ticker. It's likewise good to see Folau in some real international form.
+ Hodge has got to find a position and lock it down soon otherwise he'll always be a utility bench back. I was thinking he has all the attributes of a strong 13? Good ball runner, strong defender, smart footy brain, etc.
+ I haven't rewatched the game on telly but I thought the Scots were very quick in defence to the point that they must've been offside half the time. I also thought a lot of the ruck officiating was a bit how ya goin. The last few penalties were questionable.
The team I think we should have started:
Kepu, TPN, Ala'alatoa, Coleman, Carter, Timani, Hooper, Higgenbotham, Powell, Foley, Naivalu, Hunt, Kuridrani (ugh), DHP, Folau
Bench: Smith, Latu, Sio, Arnold, Hardwick, Gordon, Cooper, Hodge.
My biggest gripe of the night:
After the game I was at a pub in the Eastern Suburbs until about 1am. Who cares? I'm 22 and what I put into my body affects no one but myself. No problems there.
Where I do have a problem is when some of the Wallabies who move in similar circles turn up at 10:00pm and join the fray. FFS you just lost a game you should've won in a representative team that is severely underperforming. Go do some extra laps after the game, go do some yoga to recover or fucking get an early nights sleep and have a long, hard think about how that performance wasn't up to the required standard.
Don't get in the first Uber available to get pissed with your mates as if its the beginning of the off season. A lot of people my age would probably stop drinking altogether if they had the talent to even crack a Super squad.
I wonder if Jordie Barretts on the beers every Saturday? Or Ardie Savea?
Perhaps I'm overreacting but given the disappointment of Wallabies fans everywhere I thought it was a bad look.
+ I actually thought it was rather enjoyable. I was at the ground with my Beliebers (according to Dismal) and the atmosphere was pretty good. Absolutely ashamed to be an Australian Rugby fan though - people in the crowd would rather you fiddled with yourself than actually make some sort of noise as the spectacle unfolds in front of you - the Scottish fans were louder than the Australian fans at a fucking test in Sydney. Absurd.
+ Hanigan is lightweight. Good prospect but not quite there yet. As someone said, he gets folded in contact too often.
+ I'm so, so off Genia. He's absolutely ponderous, is useless at putting ball to foot (should be banned from ever kicking again) and lacks the running game he used to have. Which brings me to my next point:
+ Switch. Up. The. Point. Of. Attack. How many times does it need to be said? Why don't we do it? Without it our attack becomes utterly predictable. The 9 has to snipe just to let the know the defence he might, the 10 has to run the pill, we've got to throw inside balls and we have to employ an offensive kicking game. Australian Rugby has an irrational phobia of the chip-and-chase. The All Blacks are using little dinky kicks more than ever and its going to become a major part of the game in the next few years (especially in response to a rush defence).
+ Kuridrani. Useless. Was falling off tackles all night, throwing passes a five-year-old-girl-whose-never-held-a-rugby-ball-before-in-her-life would be ashamed of, caught out of position, the whole lot. Can't wait for Kerevi to return.
+ Nabuli was ghostly. Would've preferred Naivalu or Speight. DHP wasn't much better.
+ Quade was really good from the bench. Happy to see him with some form. Likewise Hardwick - the kids got some real ticker. It's likewise good to see Folau in some real international form.
+ Hodge has got to find a position and lock it down soon otherwise he'll always be a utility bench back. I was thinking he has all the attributes of a strong 13? Good ball runner, strong defender, smart footy brain, etc.
+ I haven't rewatched the game on telly but I thought the Scots were very quick in defence to the point that they must've been offside half the time. I also thought a lot of the ruck officiating was a bit how ya goin. The last few penalties were questionable.
The team I think we should have started:
Kepu, TPN, Ala'alatoa, Coleman, Carter, Timani, Hooper, Higgenbotham, Powell, Foley, Naivalu, Hunt, Kuridrani (ugh), DHP, Folau
Bench: Smith, Latu, Sio, Arnold, Hardwick, Gordon, Cooper, Hodge.
My biggest gripe of the night:
After the game I was at a pub in the Eastern Suburbs until about 1am. Who cares? I'm 22 and what I put into my body affects no one but myself. No problems there.
Where I do have a problem is when some of the Wallabies who move in similar circles turn up at 10:00pm and join the fray. FFS you just lost a game you should've won in a representative team that is severely underperforming. Go do some extra laps after the game, go do some yoga to recover or fucking get an early nights sleep and have a long, hard think about how that performance wasn't up to the required standard.
Don't get in the first Uber available to get pissed with your mates as if its the beginning of the off season. A lot of people my age would probably stop drinking altogether if they had the talent to even crack a Super squad.
I wonder if Jordie Barretts on the beers every Saturday? Or Ardie Savea?
Perhaps I'm overreacting but given the disappointment of Wallabies fans everywhere I thought it was a bad look.
dru
David Wilson (68)
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
Michael: yeah, nah, you're not overreacting at all, it's just unprofessional regardless of the result. Arses should be getting kicked.
ShtinaTina
Alex Ross (28)
Nope not an over-reaction.
I don't mind that they head out afterwards, see their mates, have a few, but leave it at that. No need to play catch ups with everyone else.
I'm not sure if they've got a curfew anymore
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
I've felt for a number of years that we have a cultural issue with the elite level in this country. I just don't think some of these blokes want it enough and because our depth is tested there isn't enough competition for places. I also think that Hooper doesn't have the necessary gravitas as captain. He sets a fantastic example as a player, but I don't think he's able to bust a few heads when required and tune people up on the field. Had I been captain out there yesterday I think I would have been tempted to punch a few blokes out of frustration (this may be the reason why I don't captain sporting teams, on reflection).
amirite
Chilla Wilson (44)
Who here has had a beer with your mates after a shit day at work? It's literally no different.
These guys are athletes, they have their nights out (and calorie consumption) programmed in WEEKS in advance. You expect blokes to forgo a rare night out?
Keeping in mind these are the same athletes that are told time and time again by Sports Psycs to compartmentalise their life so the stress doesn't build up, so they can perform better. Have outside interests, have a non-rugby social life, etc.
Michael, I generally consider you one of the more rational posters (maybe not on some Force stuff
). Whilst I understand your point, and think there's truth to it in a vacuum, I don't agree with it. These nights off don't happen in a vacuum to the players, they live this lifestyle every day. They're normal people with the same wants as normal people.
The torpedo
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Well we were all drinking to forget after that game. Can't blame the players for doing the same
In all seriousness, I agree with the post (except the part about going off for a run and to a lesser extent doing some yoga)
The torpedo
Peter Fenwicke (45)
It shows an inability to move with the times. I'm sure, that at some point in the future, the slide defence (I'm pretty sure that's what Grey runs) will be effective once more, but it is not at the moment. And that is a failing of the coaching staff to move with the times.
No4918
John Hipwell (52)
My biggest gripe with Michael's post is he seems to think we care he was in a pub to 1am. You kids these days are outrageous. Nice name drop, 'I move in the same circles'. Haha, no one cares about that either big shot.
That never happened when I was a youngin'. All tucked up in bed at 9pm on a Saturday night we were.
Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk
That never happened when I was a youngin'. All tucked up in bed at 9pm on a Saturday night we were.
Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk
T
TOCC
Guest
Who here has had a beer with your mates after a shit day at work? It's literally no different.
These guys are athletes, they have their nights out (and calorie consumption) programmed in WEEKS in advance. You expect blokes to forgo a rare night out?
Keeping in mind these are the same athletes that are told time and time again by Sports Psycs to compartmentalise their life so the stress doesn't build up, so they can perform better. Have outside interests, have a non-rugby social life, etc.
Michael, I generally consider you one of the more rational posters (maybe not on some Force stuff
While I completely understand your point, and that there's truth to it in a vacuum, I don't agree with it.
These nights off don't happen in a vacuum to the players, they live this lifestyle every day. They're normal people with the same wants as normal people.
I disagree, there's a big difference...
A drink after work will be out of your system by the next morning, most of us aren't getting paid for our physical output anyway, as long as you're mentally prepared the next day to work then there's no ill effects.. An athlete is paid for his physical output, getting on the piss is the same as cutting short a run or skipping a few reps, it's not just about the ability to perform the next day, but the impact of that and their ability to perform the following weekend.
For athletes, there is scientific evidence which states that alcohol delays recovery, and following a test rugby match there will be no shortage of soft tissue injuries and lactic acid build up. It's why you don't get on the piss after a gym session, they are clearly counter productive.
I'm friends with an NRL player, widely considered one of the most professional players in the NRL. He only drinks in the offseason, even then it's rare, or may have a beer at a social gathering. When he was younger he would still come out, but would order a water with lime, so that people would think he was drinking and wouldn't pester him to buy him drinks. Why? Because he knew what he wanted and wasn't prepared to let a good night get in the way of him achieving goals, his argument was that it was a small price to pay for what he wanted in life. Funnily, this guy game from a rugby union background.
T
TOCC
Guest
Players deserve their time off, but alcohol isn't the only means of recreation and having fun, that's a cultural and education piece... forgoing massive nights out during the season is the small price to pay for the privledge of being a professional athlete.
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
Folau had a good game, but his strength seen would be applied to the wing position.
Hunt or DHP to 15 for me, they have both played most of their rugby there and can read the play and create attack options which just were not there.
QC (Quade Cooper) to 10, Foley was very pedestrian last night, we need to look to attack, and create options.
#makeclubrugbygreatagain
Hunt or DHP to 15 for me, they have both played most of their rugby there and can read the play and create attack options which just were not there.
QC (Quade Cooper) to 10, Foley was very pedestrian last night, we need to look to attack, and create options.
#makeclubrugbygreatagain
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Who here has had a beer with your mates after a shit day at work? It's literally no different.
These guys are athletes, they have their nights out (and calorie consumption) programmed in WEEKS in advance. You expect blokes to forgo a rare night out?
Keeping in mind these are the same athletes that are told time and time again by Sports Psycs to compartmentalise their life so the stress doesn't build up, so they can perform better. Have outside interests, have a non-rugby social life, etc.
Michael, I generally consider you one of the more rational posters (maybe not on some Force stuff
These nights off don't happen in a vacuum to the players, they live this lifestyle every day. They're normal people with the same wants as normal people.
Right, Alcohol is not a hindrance to high performance and recovery.
These are highly paid professionals. If one wants to be the best sacrifices have to be made, and that might just mean not drinking piss or snorting coke and lets face some serious facts, despite their inflated pay packets these blokes are not the best, just maybe the best in this small pond which is shrinking.
I do understand where you are coming from, in the old days late 80's & early 90's I had many a post work piss up, shit some of my colleagues were pissed at work (even before work I did my second Physics exams pissed to the amusement (or bemusement) of the lecturer). Those days are gone thankfully.
Fact is they have a short career as a pro rugby player generally, if they do not want to make the sacrifices needed that is fine, do something else. To be in a chronically under performing team/s and not be willing to sacrifice superficial stuff like this and also still demand Pro pay packets.
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