Australia v Scotland, 3:00pm 17 June Sydney Football Stadium

[KOB1987]

I presume he's the 10 who in the Lions - Finn Russell according to Wikipedia

Perhaps you should have checked the team list. He played yesterday and was called into the lions squad this morning


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[wamberal]

Kicking for goal instead of line outs would have won the game but Im torn as to whether that is what we should have done.

Big assumption given Popgun Foley's dreadful kicking on the day, out of hand, and from the ground. I would not have backed him from 20 metres out right in front, frankly.

 

[OJLovedNicole]

lets face it other than a nice run at the world cup in 2015 the wallabies have been average for a long time. we are further away from new zealand and many teams have caught us.

 

[upthereds#!]

I don't disagree with that UTR but this June squad was largely developmental with an eye to the future, and that's why the Fardys of the world were left out. The RC squad will be the strongest available players.

Cheika figured that we could win these 3 games with such a squad. At the end of the day all we had to do to beat Scotland yesterday was execute the basics effectively. We tried, we failed.


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Cheikas original plan was to do a 5 game block which included these 3 games in conjunction with the 1st 2 RC games which were Bledisloe. That would suggest that the ARG & SA games + the EOYT would be more about seeing who else could get a crack. Cheika said that players would be picked if they were considered a starting player no matter what their plans were regarding retirement, leaving etc. Larkham came out and said he was very surprised that Fardy was not considered as the starting no.6. Considering the original plan for a 5 game block including the bledisloe, I would suggest it is odd that BOTH Hanigan and Dempsey were included over Fardy. Hanigan would benefit HUGELY from him and fardy being the 6's, Timani & Higs as the 8's and Hooper & Hardwick as the 7's. With Mcmahon to replace Fardy later in the year.

 

[fatprop]

On form this year, ready is not ready.

Otherwise, TPN had a shocker against Scotland - just as bad as Genia. He is not consistent enough to be seen as the starting test No 2. Latu definitely needs to be given an opportunity (should have already happened) but probably off the bench to replace Moore after 50 or 60 mins.

TPN was pretty good until the head clash, til then he was making yards, tackling hard and hitting his lineout targets

 

[refugee]

Wallabies looked pedestrian and lacked any smarts. All blacks by 90 if we play like that again.
Very disappointed that professionals cannot do what they are paid to do
Why can't they catch a high ball , izzy excepted.

 

[fatprop]

The problem actually was that we over-committed close to the ruck (a signature of Grey's defensive pattern) and left ourselves exposed on the flank a couple of times. It would have made more sense to not compete at the ruck and wait for Scotland to make mistakes- they weren't going to offer a whole lot in attack.

Every team has issues dealing with a rush defence, so why weren't we doing that rush defense?

 

[A mutterer]

Every team has issues dealing with a rush defence, so why weren't we doing that rush defense?

it would require the wallaby players to run?

 

[Joe Blow]

Hey Cheiks,

Hanigan is a really handsome bloke and all.....

But it's time to swallow some pride, and break up the Sportscraft catalogue backrow we have going on right now and inject some physicality into there...

You know what to do:

Get off it Brum Boys. It aint happening.......

We need something else. If McMahon was fit he would be starting there.
For now we need these young fellas to step up.

 

[Quick Hands]

It's surpising that anyone who has watched any super rugby this year was in any way surprised by that performance.

The idea that all our teams could play poorly in super rugby, but they would suddenly take on super human qualities on playing for the national team was highly optimistic.

I predicted a year or so ago that for the foreseeable future we would be at similar level to Scotland and Argentina. There's really no surprise in any of this. We now at the stage where a win over Italy will be a talking point.

 

[wamberal]

The All Blacks would have beaten either of these teams by 50 on what we saw yesterday.

This has been 15 years in the making and is a direct result of the ARU top down model. I suspect that we are yet to hit rock bottom.

And there is absolutely no reason to believe that any other model would have worked any better.


We produce a lot of good players, under this model. Many of them leave our shores to chase big money elsewhere. That is one of the problems. The other problem is that we do not have enough good coaches. Maybe the topdown model should have been directed at coaching as well.


But to imagine that there is a magic bullet hidden somewhere in history is a bit like the PNG natives who believe in the "cargo cult".

 

[Quick Hands]

And there is absolutely no reason to believe that any other model would have worked any better.


We produce a lot of good players. Many of them leave our shores to chase big money elsewhere. That is one of the problems. The other problem is that we do not have enough good coaches. Maybe the topdown model should have been directed at coaching as well.


But to imagine that there is a magic bullet hidden somewhere in history is a bit like the PNG natives who believe in the "cargo cult".

There's no magic bullet. There is 15-20 years of hard slog from the bottom up to return us to where we were post RWC 2003.

There's plenty of reason to believe a bottom up approach would work - note England's rise.

Coaching has been top down as well. Our best Wallaby coaches all came up through club rugby where they learnt to adapt and learnt from the inevitable mistakes that one makes as a coach.

Rod McQueen's first success was coaching Warringah to a 4th grade premiership. We see today coaches being moved straight from elite player status to coaching at the elite level as either assistants or at 20s level. It ain't working and it ain't going to work.

 

[amirite]

Get off it Brum Boys. It aint happening...

We need something else. If McMahon was fit he would be starting there.
For now we need these young fellas to step up.

I think what makes sense is Timani to 8 and Higgers to 6.

 

[Slim 293]

Get off it Brum Boys. It aint happening...

We need something else. If McMahon was fit he would be starting there.
For now we need these young fellas to step up.

McMahon would definitely be a handy addition to the squad.........

But he's also not our 6 going forward, especially with Pocock back next year..........

And if the rumours are true he's off to Japan.........

And Brum boys? Grow up.

 

[amirite]

it would require the wallaby players to run?

Or because Finn Russel has a good short-kicking game?

The reason the Wallabies struggled with the rush was our carrying wasn't up to scratch. If we'd had good positive carries we would've scored in their red zone, and put their D under pressure because rush D struggles to reload well phase after phase.

 

[cyclopath]

I was at the ground, on the 22 at the end where Scotland were warming up. They were much more intense and everything seemed at a much higher speed than what going on at the other end. Scotland also ran their team run semi-opposed. It was very obvious and I was having a chat to a few people around me who noticed the same thing.

Yep, the Wallabies ran mostly unopposed, and then at half pace. I was really surprised at how inaccurate their warm-up process was.
And although Scotland thoroughly deserved the win, the Wallabies really, really, really just should not have lost. 2 really poor decision making processes gifting tries in the first half (obviously with excellent pressure being applied by Scotland) and the Scottish try in the second half just appeared from nowhere as the Wallabies collectively clocked off in defence. There just should never have been a try on there, and in the end Scotland had at least 3 players who could have scored it. And it was a very good try.
It's hard to not join the dots of the lackadaisical prep and inaccurate execution under a little (expected) pressure.

 

[cyclopath]

Or because Finn Russel has a good short-kicking game?

The reason the Wallabies struggled with the rush was our carrying wasn't up to scratch. If we'd had good positive carries we would've scored in their red zone, and put their D under pressure because rush D struggles to reload well phase after phase.

We didn't really move Scotland around and make them uncomfortable enough. When a few quick recycles were needed, it was turgid. Change the point of attack - nope. As one of the more eminent rugby brains sitting with me said in the second half - "if we could hold it for 10 phases, we'll score". I'm not sure we did. The hair-brained kick options taken at times by Genia, Foley, Cooper and DHP screamed lack of belief in what they were doing.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

We didn't really move Scotland around and make them uncomfortable enough. When a few quick recycles were needed, it was turgid. Change the point of attack - nope. As one of the more eminent rugby brains sitting with me said in the second half - "if we could hold it for 10 phases, we'll score". I'm not sure we did. The hair-brained kick options taken at times by Genia, Foley, Cooper and DHP screamed lack of belief in what they were doing.

So they don't go by the modern chestnut that teams are less likely to score after holding the ball for more than three phases?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Big assumption given Popgun Foley's dreadful kicking on the day, out of hand, and from the ground. I would not have backed him from 20 metres out right in front, frankly.

I was thinking of you yesterday, wamberal.
There was so little football played in the first half and what there was was dire from us and I thought wamberal's right, it no wonder the place is 1/3 empty with this dire concoction of time wasting and poor skills it should not be a surprise no one is watching.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Perhaps you should have checked the team list. He played yesterday and was called into the lions squad this morning


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Fair enough.
Geez Wikipedia updates quicker than ARU.com.au. As a matter of interest who is he replacing?
Team list? The program ($10) had no numbers and I threw the thing in the bin on the way out.