Australia v Argentina, Sept 14th in Perth

[Slim 293]

Because he's by far the best candidate to lead the team that's been picked........

Whether he should be playing 6 or 8 is another debate..........

 

[USARugger]

Kuta88

Who would you like to see wearing 8 this weekend who doesn't normally play 6/Lock and isn't injured?

 

[Groucho]

Well, having taken on the job mid-season, McKenzie seems to have got himself into all sorts of selection muddles, which as many have said is just shuffling deck chairs around. He needs some breathing space, time to sit down, think who he wants for the future and start to build a coherent team/squad. He may or may not turn out to be the man for the job, but he seems to be chasing shadows at the moment.

Quick Hands, I'm sure he is the man for the job. But as you say he has to escape the baggage of the past, otherwise he may find himself locked in it.

 

[jollyswagman]

Ben Mowen to be rewarded with the captaincy is a complete joke as he has not performed in the last 3 test matches at playing NO.8
I think McKenzie has made a mistake by leaving him at No.8 for another week.. He should be playing 6

Kuta88.....this is the professional level sport here. I believe we have progressed beyond primary school mentality that the captain is the best player on the team. He would have likely been selected for his leadership qualities, which we all know are few and far between in this team, and the most worthy player since the hand-me-down game began. I think Mowen is going do a great job in the role and wouldn't be surprised if he retains the job when Horwill & Genia make their way back into the side.

 

[Groucho]

Kuta88...this is the professional level sport here. I believe we have progressed beyond primary school mentality that the captain is the best player on the team. He would have likely been selected for his leadership qualities, which we all know are few and far between in this team, and the most worthy player since the hand-me-down game began. I think Mowen is going do a great job in the role and wouldn't be surprised if he retains the job when Horwill & Genia make their way back into the side.

He could do and it may improve his game. He's very good with referees.

 

[Brumbieman]

A series against the AB's and a series against the Boks for a start. Don't forget that we were still a bloody good side from 1992-1994. At the 95 RWC we carried some blokes who were too old and as a result suffered in that tournament. The following two years were tough, I'll admit, but to say we didn't achieve much after winning the RWC in 1991 is not accurate.

Yes, we a bloody good side.

Did we win five consecutive Bledisloes, a World Cup, Lions series and 3 tri-nations titles?

We were bloody good in the early nineties. We were even better 98-02.

 

[Groucho]

One of the most frustrating things for me personally at this time is that we have some very talented players in the backs but we continue to struggle. I have accepted the fact that it is going to take good deal longer than I hoped to get things sorted and they start to put some runs on the board. I feel the rest of 2013 is going to be a mix of shit but hopefully by the end of it Link has managed to put some aces in the hole by experimenting a little more with some positional changes. If I had a time machine I would love to fast forward to 2015 WC time and take a look at our first-string back line as I suspect it will look very different to what we are discussing at this point in time. What would the 9/10 combination be, will Godwin progress to be a starter in the side, is Folau still at FB, has Beale managed to get his shit sorted, is JOC (James O'Connor) still playing rugby, has Speight become a true-blue-Aussie, will Kurindrani and Mogg develop further??? It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Anything with Godwin, JOC (James O'Connor), Speight, Folau and Beale, all on song, must have some extreme attacking potential. The jury is out on Kurindrani. Mogg, meh... maybe. But most of all, Genia has to find form. It's starting to look like he has an attitude problem, with all the shouting and slow service to the backs. Back to basics please Will: you're not the boss, you're a halfback with a crucial job to do.

 

[USARugger]

What worries me the most about Genia "not taking advice" is that this isn't even close to the first time I've heard this about specific Wallaby players. That in itself is extremely disconcerting.

There are some players out there who legitimately could probably get away with self-coaching (Dan Carter, French pack last RWC, Fourie du Preez etc) at this point. I really don't think any of the guys I've heard it about fall into this category, not even Will.

 

[Brumbieman]

Anything with Godwin, JOC (James O'Connor), Speight, Folau and Beale, all on song, must have some extreme attacking potential. The jury is out on Kurindrani. Mogg, meh. maybe. But most of all, Genia has to find form. It's starting to look like he has an attitude problem, with all the shouting and slow service to the backs. Back to basics please Will: you're not the boss, you're a halfback with a crucial job to do.

And on defense?

This is my point. We rave about attack, but as defense is 50% of the battle, why are we not stacking our backline with at least one from 7 who is a defensive specialist? Someone to be the defensive flyhalf and run the show.

When Robinson skinned Latham in 2001, listen to the commentator: "The greatest defense in the world has been lacerated!"

We were known for defense, not attack, and I think the loss of that attitude is far more damning to our Wallabies culture or chances of success than not having a world class scrum to dominate the 4% of each game that the scrum is actually in play.

 

[Quick Hands]

Quick Hands, I'm sure he is the man for the job. But as you say he has to escape the baggage of the past, otherwise he may find himself locked in it.

He's just taken over at the worst possible time. Straight after the Lions loss and with minimial time to prepare for ABs, Boks etc. I think he needs some breathing space, which he won't get until the RC is over. He can then take his squad on the EOYT with the next RWC in mind. He's really on a hiding to nothing at the moment.

 

[Quick Hands]

And on defense?

This is my point. We rave about attack, but as defense is 50% of the battle, why are we not stacking our backline with at least one from 7 who is a defensive specialist? Someone to be the defensive flyhalf and run the show.

When Robinson skinned Latham in 2001, listen to the commentator: "The greatest defense in the world has been lacerated!"

We were known for defense, not attack, and I think the loss of that attitude is far more damning to our Wallabies culture or chances of success than not having a world class scrum to dominate the 4% of each game that the scrum is actually in play.

Just as high quality attack is built on quality possession from scrums and lineout, it also requires the ability to defend. You just can't leak soft tries to ABs, Boks, Lions, France, etc and expect to win more than you lose.

 

[fatprop]

As Muggleton said, our transition to defence is rubbish, Deans hid it by limiting width and limiting turnovers by keep the ball close to the pigs, but when we moved to a more "entertaining brand of football" our lack of effort and accuracy in clean outs is leading to turnovers wider out, and then the shit happens.

A defensive backs leader is not the key problem, they may shut down a play every so often, but our problem is the transition not set piece or "set" defence

 

[Bowside]

There is an interesting section in Rod Mcqueens book about the defensive system and how they broke the field into 4 sections in order to organise themselves and recognise threats.

I've tried it with a schoolboy team and it worked well. But I imagine its not all that effective at pro level as all teams probably do something similar now?

Is it simply a case of getting the players fitter? Maybe more emphasis on getting back up off the deck and short sprints? Is it an on field leadership issue?

 

[Richo]

What is wrong with Lilos defence? He and Godwin are the allround 12s to go forward. I would love to see Izzy at 13 at some point. CFS is few years away and Kuridrani will continue to improve.

Far less worried about the back stocks than i am the forwards.

No, no. That's crazy talk. Let's go back to what was mediocre in the past.

 

[RedsHappy]

There is an interesting section in Rod Mcqueens book about the defensive system and how they broke the field into 4 sections in order to organise themselves and recognise threats.

I've tried it with a schoolboy team and it worked well. But I imagine its not all that effective at pro level as all teams probably do something similar now?

Is it simply a case of getting the players fitter? Maybe more emphasis on getting back up off the deck and short sprints? Is it an on field leadership issue?

What is required urgently is an assistant coach under Link that has a proper track record and recently displayed competence in achieving excellence in defensive structures, realignment and execution.

Link's biggest error to date without question is not effecting an immediate clean-out of all pre-existing Wallaby support coaches. He's trying to hold a talented but not optimally educated class together with manifestly poor teachers.

 

[fatprop]

What is required urgently is an assistant coach under Link that has a proper track record and recently displayed competence in achieving excellence in defensive structures, realignment and execution.

Link's biggest error to date without question is not effecting an immediate clean-out of all pre-existing Wallaby support coaches. He's trying to hold a talented but not optimally educated class together with manifestly poor teachers.

I thought Muggleton's article was him positioning for a Wods job again, they could do worse.

As for the current lot of support staff, they ain't got much to work with frankly.

Add Nau, Hanson, Horwill, Higgers, Palu & Pocock to the forward mix and you start to add "starch"

 

[BPC]

As Muggleton said, our transition to defence is rubbish, Deans hid it by limiting width and limiting turnovers by keep the ball close to the pigs, but when we moved to a more "entertaining brand of football" our lack of effort and accuracy in clean outs is leading to turnovers wider out, and then the shit happens.

A defensive backs leader is not the key problem, they may shut down a play every so often, but our problem is the transition not set piece or "set" defence

To be even-handed, our work off the ball (which includes transitioning from attack to defence) is equally poor when we are on attack, defence or moving between the two.

 

[fatprop]

To be even-handed, our work off the ball (which includes transitioning from attack to defence) is equally poor when we are on attack, defence or moving between the two.

Yep, has been for years

 

[Slim 293]

Yes, we a bloody good side.

Did we win five consecutive Bledisloes, a World Cup, Lions series and 3 tri-nations titles?

We were bloody good in the early nineties. We were even better 98-02.

And going back to Nathan Gray for a moment, he was only a regular starter for one season in that period.........

 

[Santiago]

sup

As you may know both did lost all three match and somehow argentina got 2 points and AUS 0.

It's going to be a very close match, at the very least i hope pumas comes strong they shoulda have won in NZ or atleast a very close match if it wasn't for that fucking french ref

it's going to be an really interesing match and they are showing our new jersey (damn it's good)

i'll provide streams and everything! 5:05 am here, damn