Aussie Player Exodus

[Wilson]

I don't think its that ambiguous. French clubs can't approach young Australian rugby players without Rugby Australia giving authorisation to do so.

It's the French clubs who are behaving inappropriately here

Rugby Australia have followed the regulations as written.


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It's unfortunate for the player and his family, but this part is just wrong under WR (World Rugby) (World Rugby) regulations. He has a current Union (Australia). If he wants to play under a new Union (France) there are processes that need to be followed.

This delay is what happens when you don't follow the process

The ambiguous part of the poaching law is the section on sanctions - the way it's written the FRU (who are also a beneficiary of the poaching) could give La Rochelle a slap on the wrist and then claim it's all good. There's no detail around what constitutes appropriate sanctions, any mention of compensation for the original union and nothing that actually prevents the poaching or invalidates the contract. I definitely don't mean to absolve the French clubs of responsibility here though, it looks pretty clear they're operating outside the letter and spirit of the law.

The major issue is definitely enforcement and management of the release systems. Ambiguity in the language of the laws exacerbates the problem, but the problem would still exist if the laws were perfectly written and World Rugby continued with their approach.

 

[PhilClinton]

Phil, what is the clearance actually required for?

My limited understanding is that you require a clearance from RA to be able to register for another club, no matter whether it is international, state or otherwise.

The same way there are sometimes hold ups when players move from Shute Shield to QPR and there is a clearance process, as a player can only be registered with one club.

That may be wrong but I thought it was the case.

 

[JRugby2]

My limited understanding is that you require a clearance from RA to be able to register for another club, no matter whether it is international, state or otherwise.

The same way there are sometimes hold ups when players move from Shute Shield to QPR and there is a clearance process, as a player can only be registered with one club.

That may be wrong but I thought it was the case.

No this is correct.

Domestically for example, it stops someone from copping a ban in one comp/ jurisdiction and then playing somewhere else without serving that ban. There isn't a player database or anything that everyone feeds into, so this is how they track and monitor players.

 

[Tomthumb]

I know it's only been two games but I'm curious about Champion De Crispgny's success. I didn't predict it. I thought he was a battler in a mid table team in France. I think it probably shows the quality of our teams to theirs. Sorta bucking the trend of the classic over vaunted foreign player coming home and not delivering.

Makes me think we should move heaven & hell to get Staniforth home. He is the captain of Nick's French team and actually does stand out. Been named lock of the tournament, constantly Castres' best player, topped the tackle count for the top 14 etc.

Does it?

Tom Staniforth going from fringe Super rugby player to the John Eales of the Top 14 would say otherwise

 

[Derpus]

Does it?

Tom Staniforth going from fringe Super rugby player to the John Eales of the Top 14 would say otherwise

I don't think it says much at all.

Staniforth was fine but never showed much to suggest he could be a Wallaby mainstay. He left, and excelled in a different environment. Almost like different people will react differently to different opportunities. Skelton was similar (though a far higher ceiling IMO).

 

[Tomthumb]

I don't think it says much at all.

Staniforth was fine but never showed much to suggest he could be a Wallaby mainstay. He left, and excelled in a different environment. Almost like different people will react differently to different opportunities. Skelton was similar (though a far higher ceiling IMO).

I agree, I was disputing the notion that the level of Super rugby is lower based on De Crespiny having a couple of decent games

 

[Tex]

Recruiting a teenager seems pretty suss tbh, from both the club and the family. Just let the kid finish high school, finish his growth spurt(s), develop friendships and have some sort of normal adolescence.

 

[Tomthumb]

This whole situation with the kid seems dirty too. The French club trying to woo a kid through his family with money is ethically poor and the Dad seems way too entitled and with a lack of appreciation for the time Australia has put in considering his kid was on a full scholarship and playing national age grade rugby in Australia. Demanding a professional contract for your 16 year old child is weird

Hopefully it's actually the kid making this huge life decision, and not being pressured by family looking for a quick buck

 

[Dctarget]

Does it?

Tom Staniforth going from fringe Super rugby player to the John Eales of the Top 14 would say otherwise

I was pointing out that it bucks the trend of of an overrated player overseas comes home and doesn't deliver.

Also, it's been discussed on here before but the quality of foreign competitions is definitely improving.

And beyond Skelton, Staniforth is the only one in the T14 that is making waves. BPA was serviceable. Hodge hasn't really played. Maddocks is unremarkable. Pete Samu is 2nd choice 8 for Bordeaux.

 

[Derpus]

I was pointing out that it bucks the trend of of an overrated player overseas comes home and doesn't deliver.

Also, it's been discussed on here before but the quality of foreign competitions is definitely improving.

And beyond Skelton, Staniforth is the only one in the T14 that is making waves. BPA was serviceable. Hodge hasn't really played. Maddocks is unremarkable. Pete Samu is 2nd choice 8 for Bordeaux.

What's happened with Hodge?

My thoughts on the others:
BPA - made it clear it was a pay cheque to build generational wealth when he left and has come back at the first opportunity
Maddocks - was never as good as he was hyped up to be and probably shouldn't have earnt a Wallaby cap at all
Pete Samu - is a winger

 

[Dctarget]

What's happened with Hodge?

Bad knee injury. Only played 6 out of like 60 games across two seasons. Bit of a weird injury too, they kept saying he'd be back he'd be back then just last week announced he wasn't going to be fit at all for the season. So, didn't play a game this season. He's 30 years old now, hope he can get back but tough road.

 

[Derpus]

Bad knee injury. Only played 6 out of like 60 games across two seasons. Bit of a weird injury too, they kept saying he'd be back he'd be back then just last week announced he wasn't going to be fit at all for the season. So, didn't play a game this season. He's 30 years old now, hope he can get back but tough road.

Damn that kinda sucks.

 

[Dctarget]

Apparently Ikitau will earn 400,000 pounds for his 9 month stint in Exeter. Earning nearly $100,000 AUD per month would probably make me put up with Exeter too.

 

[Derpus]

Apparently Ikitau will earn 400,000 pounds for his 9 month stint in Exeter. Earning nearly $100,000 AUD per month would probably make me put up with Exeter too.

The UK is brilliant if you have money, anyway. It's only a miserable shithole for the ever shrinking middle-class and below.

 

[TSR]

My first suspicion with the case of the increase in signings for our youngest players is that there are player agents out there who are probably really pushing this barrow. Hopefully I’m wrong. If not, I guess they’d argue that they are giving the kids opportunities that they wouldn’t otherwise get and some would likely agree with them. I’m cynical that it is an overly positive development. If the kid has potential I’d figure waiting 2 yrs until he finishes school would be preferable.

Good luck to the young guys that have gone over though. Hope it turns out well.

 

[PhilClinton]

This whole situation with the kid seems dirty too. The French club trying to woo a kid through his family with money is ethically poor and the Dad seems way too entitled and with a lack of appreciation for the time Australia has put in considering his kid was on a full scholarship and playing national age grade rugby in Australia. Demanding a professional contract for your 16 year old child is weird

Hopefully it's actually the kid making this huge life decision, and not being pressured by family looking for a quick buck

The family are very well known and established within the Brisbane rugby scene.

James played 1st grade at GPS for many years and captained the side, the uncle Sio is the current 1st grade coach of GPS and another uncle Phil has been playing professionally in France for about 10 years, having also spent time in Super Rugby. Pretty much all of the family members have been involved in some type of pathways or professional contract.

Whilst I agree the way it's been aired and dealt with isn't ideal from the family, it is fair to say they've had lots of exposure to the pathways system led by RA and the QRU so they obviously feel strongly enough about their position to make this all public.

The family aren't desperate for coin either.

 

[PhilClinton]

Ben Gunter was signed by Panasonic before he had graduated yr 12. Was in a similar situation where he was in the Reds academy and playing rep footy but didn't receive a Super Rugby contract.

So there is precedent for high schoolers getting poached overseas.

Also the NRL do it all the time to our high school talent. Years ago, Dane Gagai was playing for BBC and also GPS Ashgrove as a 16yr old. He was made to withdraw from GPS as he received a contract with the Cowboys that same year.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

To me this is absolutely poaching an Australian. We have all sat and bemoaned NZ at times plucking kids out of other PI countries and having them become ABs and I really don't see much difference other than Australia kicking back. Do RA want a fee for players? If your'e registered under then why not....

It sucks for the kid no doubt to be stuck in this mess.

When reading the article and they wrote his dimensions I'm more surprised he hasn't gone down the NFL route. This is the talent that will make it as a lineman.

 

[Tazzmania]

A lot of this thread is about the concerns of players leaving, however on the flip side, it does appear that the Western Force are working hard to at least bring some players back into the Australian fold and the numbers are now starting to become meaningful:

Nick Dolly
Sam Carter
Brandon Paenga - Amosa
Nick Champion de Crespigny
Harry Potter

and now Tom Osborne

 

[Major Tom]

When reading the article and they wrote his dimensions I'm more surprised he hasn't gone down the NFL route. This is the talent that will make it as a lineman.

200cm tight head WTF