ARU moves to kill off club player payments: A 3rd tier, club rugby and the $60k persuader

[p.Tah]

whether it was a strategic leak designed to test support. (Might be one of their strategic strategies)

You do get a sense that is what they do with some of these concepts. Social media is a cheap source of market research, however hopefully they realise the comments coming through these channels are not necessarily representative of the wider rugby community.

 

[I like to watch]

The Hawker/Pulver duumvirate have yet to deliver much and the mooted return to shamateurism suggested by the Pulveriser a few weeks ago doesn't fill me with much confidence either.

It will be interesting to see whether or not the structure reported in the Telegraph is indeed what they are going to do or whether it was a strategic leak designed to test support. (Might be one of their strategic strategies)

It begs the question,what is driving the decision making process at the ARU.
Is it strategic thinking,based on thorough research.
Or is it market research to identify popular thinking, and the path of least resistance.

 

[It is what it is]

It begs the question,what is driving the decision making process at the ARU.
Is it strategic thinking,based on thorough research.
Or is it market research to identify popular thinking, and the path of least resistance.

Not sure, but financial uncertainty, threadbare resources and lack of a Tier 3 solution are driving the lack of decision making.

 

[I like to watch]

No decision, is a better solution than a poorly thought out rushed job for the sake of saying we have one.
The cynic in me thinks this might be a major KPI for BP,so having one of any description is a must have.
NZ Rugby is well run and transparent.They list their KPI's in their annual report.
Why doesn't the ARU?

 

[BeastieBoy]

Extract from Rugby Gold "THE future of Australian rugby's third tier will be decided at an ARU board meeting on October 21, but we can reveal much of the plans.

It looks like they’re aiming for 10 club teams – already existing, financially sufficient clubs – some of who will also receive some backing from national universities.

There would be four teams from Sydney, three from Brisbane, and one each from Melbourne, Canberra and Perth; for arguments sake, Sydney University, Sunnybank and the like.

The players from these clubs would be contracted from August to October, the proposed timing of the tournament, and any Super Rugby and Wallabies player not playing in The Rugby Championship would be expected to play.

The squads will consist of 30 players each, and they will be able to poach players from poorer clubs in the Shute Shield and other state club competitions which do not get licences to compete in the new tournament."
This looks worse than the ARC. Just a few currently influential clubs will get a guernsey effectively killing off the other district clubs and their juniors. We need joint venture teams not this Heinekin model. This model will kill Sydney Rugby. Where is the community base?

 

[BeastieBoy]

BeastieBoy
Frank Nicholson (4)
Likes Received: 9
At the outset whichever format is chosen for the third tier competition we have to accept that we are in a professional sport that must be attractive to a large number of spectators to survive and thrive and attract media and sponsorship funding. The spectators for the other 2 tiers are dropping. Why will the 3rd be any different. We are NOT South Africa or NZ. Rugby is not the main game. We have other codes that are improving and competing for our juniors. Australians appreciate enterprise innovation and adventure. We have to bring back that spirit of the 70's and up the jumper tries. Endless pick and drives on the line and scrums leading to penalties are a turn off. Unless the bosses of this competition are prepared to have different rules, than the IRB (as we have at times in our history), then forget it. It wont work. We wont get enough followers to pay the bills. The ones that may agree with me are in the SRU and not the ARU. So i think the plan must be devised by the SRU alone initially, as the ARU will only slow you down. Then present it to them to try and get their buyin. But we must be prepared and a fall back to introduce it ourselves.
BeastieBoy, Sep 17, 2013

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Why the fascination with Unis? Sure one UNi is a powerhouse and has done a management job that would serve the ARU very well but that uni had the longest tradition in the game and the ethos of rugby was woven into its very existence.
None of the other universities in Sydney have anything like the rugby pedigree of Sydney Uni - despite all of them having played in or one removed from the top club comp here at one time or another (macquaries played 2nd division didnt it?). Why are they suddenly seen as the saviours?
One guess. How long will the Oz taxpayer cop the idea of propping up the weak sibling of the pro football codes?

 

[Quick Hands]

Why the fascination with Unis? Sure one UNi is a powerhouse and has done a management job that would serve the ARU very well but that uni had the longest tradition in the game and the ethos of rugby was woven into its very existence.
None of the other universities in Sydney have anything like the rugby pedigree of Sydney Uni - despite all of them having played in or one removed from the top club comp here at one time or another (macquaries played 2nd division didnt it?). Why are they suddenly seen as the saviours?
One guess. How long will the Oz taxpayer cop the idea of propping up the weak sibling of the pro football codes?

Well said. I guess they're seen as saviours for a couple of reasons. The ARU may have looked longingly at the US College system and thought that they could replicate that here, they may well think that it's a cheap way to do things as there will be a degree of taxpayer funds and student union fees to be utilised.

Macquarie was in Division 1 for 1 year in the 70s I think when they ran a 16 or 18 team competition and then split it into 2. Their results were similar to Drummoyne and Penrith when they first entered/re-entered 1st div.

For something this important, you'd like the think that the ARU might have conducted extensive consultations with exisiting clubs, including juniors and then come up with 2 or 3 proposals. Each proposal would have pros and cons and at the end of the process, go with the proposal that is (a) affordable and (b) able to be part of a logical pathway. To properly do (b), any proposal needs to have minimal or zero impact on the tier above and below. The mooted proposal has some merit, but its impact on SS has the potential to create 4 haves and 8 havenots with little thought as to how the 8 are to maintain development of junior and senior players in their area. It also has the potential to further entrench rugby as the sport of the north and south/east, as once these 4 clubs are in there would seem little opportunity for expansion in order to broaden the base of the pyramid.

 

[TOCC]

Why the fascination with Unis? Sure one UNi is a powerhouse and has done a management job that would serve the ARU very well but that uni had the longest tradition in the game and the ethos of rugby was woven into its very existence.
None of the other universities in Sydney have anything like the rugby pedigree of Sydney Uni - despite all of them having played in or one removed from the top club comp here at one time or another (macquaries played 2nd division didnt it?). Why are they suddenly seen as the saviours?
One guess. How long will the Oz taxpayer cop the idea of propping up the weak sibling of the pro football codes?

University of Queensland is also a powerhouse team, not at the same level as Sydney Uni but they feature regularly in the Premier Grade GF... Bond University also acquired the Gold Coast Breakers earlier this year and have thrown resources behind them.

University of Canberra also pours considerable money in the Brumbies and has partnered with them to provide the training base..


I think Uni's are seen as good prospects due to the funding and resources they can provide.

 

[Quick Hands]

University of Queensland is also a powerhouse team, not at the same level as Sydney Uni but they feature regularly in the Premier Grade GF. Bond University also acquired the Gold Coast Breakers earlier this year and have thrown considerable resources behind them.

University of Canberra also pours considerable money in the Brumbies and has partnered with them to provide the training base..


I think Uni's are seen as good prospects due to the funding and resources they can provide.

I's also assumed that UQ would be one. Having universities provide the umbrella in Canberra and possibly Melbourne and Perth might well be a masterstroke, but I don't know enough about club rugby in Melbourne or Perth to say whether or not it's a goer in those places.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

University of Queensland is also a powerhouse team, not at the same level as Sydney Uni but they feature regularly in the Premier Grade GF. Bond University also acquired the Gold Coast Breakers earlier this year and have thrown resources behind them.

University of Canberra also pours considerable money in the Brumbies and has partnered with them to provide the training base..


I think Uni's are seen as good prospects due to the funding and resources they can provide.

Does Bond get money from taxpayers?
I suppose the unis might think that attracting a rugby demographic is good for their image and attracts better students.
I assume their main attraction is their (present) access to funds.
I gather we assume that it would UQ and SU - for any others where would the expertise to run a rugby team at this level come from, i wonder

 

[Hugh Jarse]

There is a lot of love on these boards for the NZ's third tier (ITM Cup), and there is some good footy being played over there, along with a number of our lads.

We have it recording on series link on the Foxtel IQ at Chez Jarse.

Great third tier competition, but.... Have you seen the crowds?

There is not many there. 3000 - 5000 seems the norm. I reckon that the Lords of Darkness are pumping a fair stack of money into that competition.

If ARU are hoping to make money from our own third tier, then they are dreaming.

Start writing cheques, Servo.

 

[I like to watch]

I thought the plan was for it to be self supporting with a $250k per team levy?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I thought the plan was for it to be self supporting with a $250k per team levy?

ARU would be ecstatic to pull 3000 to their 3rd tier games but it would barely pay the rent.
Pulver reportedly told the club presidents there is no interest in broadcasting it at all.
We need Bunyip Blue Gum and the Cut and come again puddin'

 

[Hugh Jarse]

They had 2000 to Knox to watch some schoolboys run around the other day.

Bigger crowd expected today.

 

[wamberal]

If ARU are hoping to make money from our own third tier, then they are dreaming.

They do not have to make money from it. Ideally they could break even, but even at a loss it would be wonderful to see more local rugby on Fox Sports - and perhaps on the ABC as well.


Plus it would provide a pathway, much as the ITM Cup does.

 

[Bowside]

I actually think this university idea has legs.

In queensland alone you have UQ, Bond-GC Breakers and Griffith-Sunnybank pretty much ready to go.

The brumbies have UC ready to partner with a club, and Sydney Uni are a rugby powerhouse as well.

The success or failure of this project will rest on:

- A) the involvement of 3 of the other NSW universities: UNSW, UTS, UWS, Macquarie, Newcastle.
- B) the involvement of a single university in both Perth and Melbourne.

But the way I see it this is as close to an ideal solution as we are going to get.

Furthermore, in regards to the current club comp and the culture of haves and have nots, I would like to see the clubs that make the step up into this competition removed from the shute shield/QLD premier.

Logan could take the place of sunnybank, UQ are too close to wests anyway etc.

Likewise in sydney, it's obvious that Uni have outgrown the shute, and you also have subbies clubs like Balmain knocking on the door.

I think this could be the shake up that Australian rugby needs.

 

[Bowside]

9 initial teams:

UQ
Bond-GC
Griffith-Sunnybank
UC (with Brumbies backing)
UWA (with Force backing)
Melbourne Uni (with Rebels backing)
Sydney Uni
UNSW - possible partnership with Randwick
UWS - Parramatta

Ideally the 10th team would be Newcastle Uni Rugby club. But they would need a lot of funds to get upto speed.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Furthermore, in regards to the current club comp and the culture of haves and have nots, I would like to see the clubs that make the step up into this competition removed from the shute shield/QLD premier.

Logan could take the place of sunnybank, UQ are too close to wests anyway etc.

Likewise in sydney, it's obvious that Uni have outgrown the shute, and you also have subbies clubs like Balmain knocking on the door.

I think this could be the shake up that Australian rugby needs.

So, as a key component of "the shake up that Australian rugby needs" you suggest reducing Sydney Uni from a seven-team club to a one-team club, Bowside. The club that for the last eight or so years has been producing more professional rugby players than any club in the world by assisting players to learn their craft by gradual progression through the grades is no longer needed to fulfill that role.

And the same would apply to those other clubs which have positioned themselves to participate in a national club competition as a result of their success in developing players.

Yeah, that will strengthen Australian rugby.
.

 

[Bowside]

So, as a key component of "the shake up that Australian rugby needs" you suggest reducing Sydney Uni from a seven-team club to a one-team club, Bowside. The club that for the last eight or so years has been producing more professional rugby players than any club in the world by assisting players to learn their craft by gradual progression through the grades is no longer needed to fulfill that role.

And the same would apply to those other clubs which have positioned themselves to participate in a national club competition as a result of their success in developing players.

Yeah, that will strengthen Australian rugby.
.

You can't have it both ways Bruce. I'm sure the other 8 or 9 clubs that remain in the shield (plus the 1 or 2 subbies clubs that might make the step up) will gladly pick up the slack.

Consider the alternative: 3 or 4 sydney clubs with corporate sponsorship, as well as university and waratahs backing, playing against the likes of Warringah, Gordon and Penrith.

That sounds like the easiest way to kill club rugby to me...