ARU Junior Gold Cup - National Junior Championships

[Oldschool]

It's not a matter of being PC, it's a matter of developing the maximum number of players. Development means taking a long term view, not necessarily worrying about whether or not the teams win by 5 or loses by 5 next Saturday. That's the short term view and it's one reason why players aren't developed properly. I think many people would be pleasantly surprised by how many boys will lift to the required standard if they've been coached properly and if they actually make it on to the field.

QH, I understand what you are saying, but let's not call it the JGC, or competition if that's the case. Reading the posts, what being sold in QLD is different to NSW. The QRU up here has dropped the U15's rep teams, rumour has it because of the JGC, as they see it as the next step from club.
This might be a long bow, but maybe this is why 2 QLD, Vic and a WA teams made the finals last year.

 

[Quick Hands]

It's why I queried the precise aims of the programme at couple of pages back, which started the current discussion.

Even the ARU's statement (as provided by S'UP) identifies the programme as being long term. There is a need to play matches and the matches need to be competitive, but it loses it's long term objective if coaches are running it as another layer of rep rugby in which winning is the prime goal.

It's to the advantage of Australian rugby, including the players who are always in the "best" 15, for as many players as possible to play in these matches after participating in the training programme. Remember, we're not talking about novices who have been brought along by their mates, we're talking about boys who have been judged by selectors as being suitable for elite level rugby.

 

[S'UP]

Last year there were a number of league boys added to the squads with the view they would join a club side in 2014. The total number of boys who converted to rugby from league was zero, yes not one registration from the league boys. We should concerntrate on improving our product and wait for the kids to cross over not offer them places in a development squad at the expense of rugby playing boys.

 

[Quick Hands]

Last year there were a number of league boys added to the squads with the view they would join a club side in 2014. The total number of boys who converted to rugby from league was zero, yes not one registration from the league boys. We should concerntrate on improving our product and wait for the kids to cross over not offer them places in a development squad at the expense of rugby playing boys.

But is the aim of the programme to have boys join village club sides? I think that one of the consequences of this programme will be that from 15s on LESS elite level players will be playing village club rugby. I could name 5 or 6 boys who played rugby at school, club league and JGC - all of whom played village club rugby from 6s. I've talked about the shortcomings of the way village club rugby is run in Sydney on another thread - people are voting against it with their feet.

I have the heretical view that there's no such thing as "league boys" - there are boys playing rugby. If the majority of their previous football has been in league, it's irrelevent to me. Once a boy plays rugby he has just as much right as anyone else.

If our village club system was more robust and it was supported by coaching resources from above, then more "rugby playing boys" would have a much higher skill level than some do. Sadly there are examples in every age group where a team has a core of talented players, and those talented players are good enough to win, but these talented boys aren't coached intensively enough in their basic skills. As they get older these shortcomings can be exposed and boys and parents who have been told how good they are for years suddenly miss out on selections or don't have the same impact on the games that they play.

It's why I believe that JGC should be a development model, not a competition model as the short term selections and tactics required to win next week, aren't the same as the selections and skill development required for the long term.

 

[S'UP]

QH, totally agree. I can guarantee you boys were picked with the hope they would transition to club rugby, IMO a very misguided approach.

 

[Oldschool]

Finally some communication from the QRU via an email to clubs.

"Queensland Rugby is excited to announce that player nominations are now open for the 2015 Junior Gold Cup Program in both the U15 and U17 age groups.

In 2015 there will be 2 new Centres based out of the Greater Brisbane area with the introduction of a Logan Centre, based at Logan City RUC (Meekin Park) and an Ipswich Centre based out of Ipswich Rangers RUC (Woodend Park). These 2 centres along with the Brisbane centre (Bris Pink, Bris Orange and Bris Purple) based at Ballymore means that more young players will get an opportunity to develop their game in this the second year of the Junior Gold Cup Program.

Any player that wishes to be involved in this program in either the Brisbane, Logan or Ipswich Centre must fill out and send back the attached nomination form by COB Friday 10th October 2014.

To be eligible to trial for any U15 team players must be turning either 14 or 15 in 2015 (born 2000 or 2001)

To be eligible to trial for any U17 team players must be turning either 16 or 17 in 2015 (born 1998 or 1999)

More specific information regarding the trials is included in the nomination letter attached.

Players wishing to trial must complete the attached player nomination form and return it the Brisbane Centre Coordinator- Tyrell Barker (tyrell.barker@qru.com.au) by COB Friday 10th October 2014."

 

[S'UP]

Still nothing about the trials in Sydney, still nothing on the web pages. There are 2 regions with a managers name but no coaches or S&C's.
All the people i've spoken to tell me their boys are keen to trial this year (they didn't last year) but all the parents are hearing from parents from last year are is "don't do it, you'll be disappointed" and tha lack of information isn't helping. All we know is that it will cost $10 to trial. What about the cost for the season will it be $660 again, one would hope not but without any communication that is what is spreading around and the new parents are saying "no way am I paying $660" Come on ARU lets get something out, sometime before the trials are over.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Will they be looking at the upcoming NSW U16 Invitational as a defacto trial for next years Sydney Metro U17 squads?

 

[S'UP]

Will they be looking at the upcoming NSW U16 Invitational as a defacto trial for next years Sydney Metro U17 squads?

If it plays out like last year only a very small number of those boys will trial. But I guess part of the long weekend will be able to boys being told to trial for JGC and how it is an elite (hate the word) competition. Which brings us back to the question is it a development or elite program.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

all the parents are hearing from parents from last year are is "don't do it

spot on - but if you aren't at the right school for rugby what are you supposed to do?

 

[S'UP]

spot on - but if you aren't at the right school for rugby what are you supposed to do?

Have a strong resolve, work hard then play colts at the earlist opportunity.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Having seemingly put all their eggs in the JGC basket, has ARU junior development become a bit of a one trick pony, and are they now even more at the mercy of the powerful Schools lobby, and the vagaries of the JRU WII-FM brigade?

After only one years go at the JGC, ARU can't really afford to have too many parents not supporting that programme enthusiastically, and more damage to their credibility would come from sideline talk where parents are discouraging other parents from participating in JGC, for whatever reason.

 

[Hugie]

There will always be plenty of people/parents who complain (they aren't a scarce resource). I've managed, acted as treasurer for enough teams/tours to know about 10-15% will complain no matter what you do. You just have accept that it comes with the job. It seems to me that the JGC is a good first attempt and should considerably improve for the experience. If they stick with it, in 3-5 years they should have a very good program.

I know leagies in the Illawarra who think Union is 10 years ahead of league with the JGC (they're probably wrong).

 

[S'UP]

The problem is they don't learn, communication was an issue last year and already this year it has been a shambles. There is no doubt it can be good but until you get everyone on board it will struggle and at the moment they are hurting themselves through their lack of communication.
I asked with a month to go until the end of the SJRU season when the communication will be going out, I was told very shortly. Here we are 2 months after that date and we have had, cancelled trials, no coaches or S&C's announced even thought it is rumoured they have been appointed, still no confirmation of the cost or structure of the program and the trial days are 13 days away and are still are not locked in.
If this was being run by a volunteer group I would have a problem but this is being run by the codes governing body, they can organise the logistics for the national teams, but they cannot seemingly organise a competition for 600 school kids. It is hardly rocket science is it?

 

[Hugie]

Agree S'UP communication is the key to this stuff. Even over communicate about what problems you are facing. The 90% who are reasonable will understand and be/stay on board. If you don't communicate what's happening then other "stuff" will move into the space and a lot of that "stuff" will be negative and you loose control of the message.

 

[S'UP]

Agree S'UP communication is the key to this stuff. Even over communicate about what problems you are facing. The 90% who are reasonable will understand and be/stay on board. If you don't communicate what's happening then other "stuff" will move into the space and a lot of that "stuff" will be negative and you loose control of the message.

Agree, I have had that exact conversation with the ARU, unfortunately I think they have lost control of the message. As we know the 10-15% are very outspoken and can do huge amounts for harm to something that could be very good.

 

[Quick Hands]

The problem is they don't learn, communication was an issue last year and already this year it has been a shambles. There is no doubt it can be good but until you get everyone on board it will struggle and at the moment they are hurting themselves through their lack of communication.
I asked with a month to go until the end of the SJRU season when the communication will be going out, I was told very shortly. Here we are 2 months after that date and we have had, cancelled trials, no coaches or S&C's announced even thought it is rumoured they have been appointed, still no confirmation of the cost or structure of the program and the trial days are 13 days away and are still are not locked in.
If this was being run by a volunteer group I would have a problem but this is being run by the codes governing body, they can organise the logistics for the national teams, but they cannot seemingly organise a competition for 600 school kids. It is hardly rocket science is it?

I support the JGC concept - i.e. the ARU putting resources into junior development. Organistationally, it doesn't seem well supported by the ARU and I think it would work a lot better if it was part of a complete restructure of junior club rugby. (At least in NSW)

 

[blindsideflanker]

I support the JGC concept - i.e. the ARU putting resources into junior development. Organistationally, it doesn't seem well supported by the ARU and I think it would work a lot better if it was part of a complete restructure of junior club rugby. (At least in NSW)

The concept is fine except the ARU is forcing the participants to fund it themselves. Compare that to the Harrold Matts where the NRL funds the whole comp. My son played in the first JGC u17 and is still young enough to play in it this year but the cost is putting us off.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

NSW U17 participation levy is about $200. For this there are about two training sessions and one game. Make your own way to the game.

NSW Country Rep programme charges about $1000, but there are a few more games and training sessions.

Compared with the above, JGC gives better value for money.

Junior Representative Rugby can be an expensive proposition for many participants.

 

[S'UP]

NSW U17 participation levy is about $200. For this there are about two training sessions and one game. Make your own way to the game.

NSW Country Rep programme charges about $1000, but there are a few more games and training sessions.

Compared with the above, JGC gives better value for money.

Junior Representative Rugby can be an expensive proposition for many participants.

I'm no accountant but I'll think you will find that the numbers for last year just didn't add up, there were promises of 1 country trip, 1 interstate trip, games at large stadiums (pirtek Stadium etc), and clothing. There was too much clothing IMO, the interstate trips didn't eventuate for most, country trips were done on a shoe string budget and the games were played at school grounds and a few footballs and hit pads. I have no issue with all that IMO it was over the top in the first place but with 10 regions in NSW thats 660 x 60 boys x 10 = $396000 thats a lot of money.