ARU Junior Gold Cup - National Junior Championships

[S'UP]

hopefully the JGC looks after the boys it is aimed at and that is boys playing rugby outside the rugby playing schools. the last thing australian rigby needs it boys that are getting plenty of good coaching getting even more in the JGC. The perceived standard might not be as high but as Hugie states you train them the be better then over time we don't see CHS going flogged in the 17's by everyone at the schools trials.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I thought the idea of the JCG was to get more kids playing in Village Clubs, and for those kids to be at a higher skill level.

If that is the objective then forget about attracting the AAGPS and CAS and Div 1 ISA boys. They will by and large get exposed to advanced coaching through their schools programmes.

The only area for growth is in attracting the CHS, CCC, AICES and ISA Div 2 and 3 boys. Some ISA 2 schools teams are at OK standard, they just don't have the depth of player numbers. If JGC can re-invogorate the CHS schools programmes and get some of those boys playing Club footy, that would be a success.

There are enough skilled boys in this years U14 and U16 cohort in the CCC, CHS, AICES and ISA II/III divisions who would really benefit from the opportunities that JGC offer to make it a worthwhile long term project and wise investment for the powers that be.

Leave the ISA I, CAS and AAGPS schools to their own resources. They seem to do fairly well all by themselves.

We need more playing the game better, not the better playing even better.

 

[pilot]

I thought the idea of the JCG was to get more kids playing in Village Clubs, and for those kids to be at a higher skill level.

If that is the objective then forget about attracting the AAGPS and CAS and Div 1 ISA boys. They will by and large get exposed to advanced coaching through their schools programmes.

The only area for growth is in attracting the CHS, CCC, AICES and ISA Div 2 and 3 boys. Some ISA 2 schools teams are at OK standard, they just don't have the depth of player numbers. If JGC can re-invogorate the CHS schools programmes and get some of those boys playing Club footy, that would be a success.

There are enough skilled boys in this years U14 and U16 cohort in the CCC, CHS, AICES and ISA II/III divisions who would really benefit from the opportunities that JGC offer to make it a worthwhile long term project and wise investment for the powers that be.

Leave the ISA I, CAS and AAGPS schools to their own resources. They seem to do fairly well all by themselves.

We need more playing the game better, not the better playing even better.

Hugh,

I believe its about trying to keep these elite rugby players in the 'system' rather than competing against the league pathway or losing them to league altogether. Its also providing a high level skills and training program to develop these players in order to compete at senior level in the future.
From what I read its also about developing the game nationally and providing a level competition for the other States to compete as they are unable to match QLD and NSW rep sides.
IMO some of the elite Sydney players will withdraw from playing village rugby - particularly the 17's even though the JGC does not overlap the SJRU season. In the short term I don't think it will attract more numbers from Western or Southern Sydney. So no this initiative will not create more players to Union.

 

[footylover101]

when will applicants be notified of their selection?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

There is still too many JGC teams in non metropolitan areas and too few in Metro areas, regardless of age groups or whether AAGPS, and CAS are involved.

There will be some very one sided scorelines in the JGC Conferences, and many metro kids worthy of development will miss out on exposure to "high level skills and training program to develop these players in order to compete at senior level in the future".

Should be some cracking games between VIC, ACT, some Sydney and some Brisbane squads.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

There is still too many JGC teams in non metropolitan areas and too few in Metro areas, regardless of age groups or whether AAGPS, and CAS are involved.

There will be some very one sided scorelines in the JGC Conferences, and many metro kids worthy of development will miss out on exposure to "high level skills and training program to develop these players in order to compete at senior level in the future".

Should be some cracking games between VIC, ACT, some Sydney and some Brisbane squads.

I don't know. With the right training and development some of the country Unions might put up more of a fight than you may think. I know the U13s of this year are fairly strong.

But I agree in one respect. Hopefully the ARU maintain this until they manage to turn things around financially and look to expand the number of regions involved.

 

[Shane Smeltz]

when will applicants be notified of their selection?

I don't think the trials have been yet. The trials are end of October I believe.

 

[Wood Rat]

when will applicants be notified of their selection?

it will have to be before the following trial dates
27th October Skills assessment
3 November Match assessment

 

[Gary Owen III]

it will have to be before the following trial dates
27th October Skills assessment
3 November Match assessment

i think you mean AFTER the trial dates on the 27th and 3rd. I dont think you can be selected BEFORE you trial for the program.

But then again, in years gone by....

 

[Wood Rat]

It depends on the question I answered

I would expect some candidates/applicants may not make it or be invited to trial. those invited to trial will have to be notified before those dates

and thank you, selection into the squads will most likely be after those dates, though I am sure there are some applicants that would have been pencilled in fairly heavily given recent performances at high levels of competition.

you will notice I said all of this without YELLING

 

[S'UP]

If last years trials for JGS are anything to go by, every boy who submitted an application will be allowed to trial so there will be a cast of thousands and those known will have the sheets marked so the selectors know that they don't have to look hard at them, I'm guessing there will only be a handful of boys selected from outside last years group. Sad but thats the way they work.
There should be at least 6 teams in Sydney, quality players will miss out but again thats the way it works, you see the same thing at the state championships, districts who could field 2 sides don't get the opportunity so quality players miss out. So we make change for change sake without actually addressing the underlying issue, of players being concentrated in one area. No surprise that Gordon are exceptionally strong in juniors but cannot get a colts team on the park. How many kids miss out over there each June long weekend?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If last years trials for JGS are anything to go by, every boy who submitted an application will be allowed to trial so there will be a cast of thousands and those known will have the sheets marked so the selectors know that they don't have to look hard at them, I'm guessing there will only be a handful of boys selected from outside last years group. Sad but thats the way they work.
There should be at least 6 teams in Sydney, quality players will miss out but again thats the way it works, you see the same thing at the state championships, districts who could field 2 sides don't get the opportunity so quality players miss out. So we make change for change sake without actually addressing the underlying issue, of players being concentrated in one area. No surprise that Gordon are exceptionally strong in juniors but cannot get a colts team on the park. How many kids miss out over there each June long weekend?

The only thing that causes me doubt that this is what will happen is that they will be assessing 2 ages for each Age Grouping - (some from U17 and some from U16 for U17 - and some from u15 and U14 for U15) so it might be a little difficult to make assumptions/presumptions/educated guesses about where boys from the younger age fit in with the boys from the older age in their particular group when most will not have competed against each other for spots in the past.

 

[John Brown]

i think you mean AFTER the trial dates on the 27th and 3rd. I dont think you can be selected BEFORE you trial for the program.

But then again, in years gone by..

Son said to me the other day a mate of his said he has supposedly been pre-selected in the JGC program even beofre the trials. So does this mean the sides that just played in the U16's Nationals get a free pass into the selected region? Or in the case of the North region team is already pre-selected.

I told my son that couldn't be right as this is the new initiative for the better, maybe he misunderstood what was said to him....

 

[Gary Owen III]

It depends on the question I answered

I would expect some candidates/applicants may not make it or be invited to trial. those invited to trial will have to be notified before those dates

and thank you, selection into the squads will most likely be after those dates, though I am sure there are some applicants that would have been pencilled in fairly heavily given recent performances at high levels of competition.

you will notice I said all of this without YELLING

Apologies Wood Rat. I wasn't trying to YELL, just trying to emphasize the point.

I know of a few lads whom have already received the email to trial on those dates, but like last year expect it to be all boys whom nominate to be given the opportunity to trial.

Will be interesting to see how many lads turn up in each age group. I heard the U15's have been much more well patronised than the U17's.

 

[Gary Owen III]

Son said to me the other day a mate of his said he has supposedly been pre-selected in the JGC program even beofre the trials. So does this mean the sides that just played in the U16's Nationals get a free pass into the selected region? Or in the case of the North region team is already pre-selected.

I told my son that couldn't be right as this is the new initiative for the better, maybe he misunderstood what was said to him..

I don't know the policy, but personally I wouldn't have an issue with any of the lads that made NSW schools or SJRU U16's that played in the nationals this year receiving an automatic qualification to the JGC U17's squads.

This is 46 players that have effectively already proven themselves through a number of selection panels already, and considering they will be choosing 120 kids for the metro squads, it would actually make the ARU selectors job a bit easier in selecting the other 74 players needed by taking them out of the trials process.

I'd even consider throwing in the Sydney U15 team as an automatic as well (another 23 players) leaving 51 spots open for the trials.

For the U15's you could take out of the equation the Sydney 14's team and the extended squad they chose this season (30 players).

But then again i have no issue with the "everyone must trial" policy either.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Using U17 as the competition, the 43 kids in Schools and Juniors teams will be squeezed into 4 Metro Centres, whereas the 23 NSW Country reps (which struggled to be competitive against the Schools and Juniors teams at Nationals) will be spread across 6 centres, further reducing the ability of the Country based JGC teams to win the Gold medal.

The one flaw in the preselection of most of the previous years rep teams into the next age group's Jnr Gold Cup (which most of them probably deserve a free pass) would be the lads who failed to be selected for the rep teams because injury prevented them from attending selection trials (State Champs, or Regionals for the Sydney folk, or NSW Country trials). There won't be many kids in this category, and in reality if they are any good, they will trial well and are probably already "known" to the various scouts.

The unknown factor is the National Gold Squad. This years Sydney NGS was 40 strong, before Scots withdrew their boys. One assumes that the Brisbane NGS is of similar size. Up to 1/2 the NGS will be "new entrants" from the U16 age group. If NGS runs their programme independent of the JGC, up to 20 of the 69 kids from Schools/Juniors/NSW Country U16's will not be in the JGC. This will throw up some more positions for "fringe" elite players.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Raises an interesting issue.
Given the complaints about selections generally and nepotism in relation to some selections I wonder how the ARU gold cup selection people would take the mere fact of selection in one of the JRU teams or, for that matter, the schools teams: i have heard bleating about them too.

 

[sarcophilus]

Both these programmes are ARU
Surely a competition that asks to increase intensity and skill isnt going to do that by excluding what some have described as the best players (from the NGS) or is there conflict within as well
engagement in this should be compulsory for the NGS participants in this age group

 

[rams]

. No surprise that Gordon are exceptionally strong in juniors but cannot get a colts team on the park. How many kids miss out over there each June long weekend?

Southern Districts did not field a 14's or a 17's this year at State Champs, we would have been happy to take those that missed out, most districts aren't too keen on giving out the dispensation to allow this to happen so as you say a lot of talented kids miss out
.

Raises an interesting issue.
Given the complaints about selections generally and nepotism in relation to some selections I wonder how the ARU gold cup selection people would take the mere fact of selection in one of the JRU teams or, for that matter, the schools teams: i have heard bleating about them too.

I don't think we will ever get away from nepotism in junior sports, I have seen far too much for far too long from district level to Sydney sides & even State level. At the end of the day the talent will always shine through, nepotism will only get you so far.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

.

I don't think we will ever get away from nepotism in junior sports, I have seen far too much for far too long from district level to Sydney sides & even State level. At the end of the day the talent will always shine through, nepotism will only get you so far.

Precisely why I question just how much the ARU appointed JGC staff would rely on the selections for those teams.