ARU brainwave to plug $$$ black hole

[Scotty]

I just did.

I'm not saying anything......






(apart from what I have just said, of course).

 

[TOCC]

meh what can you do, people will believe what they perceive, even when it differs from reality

 

[waratahjesus]

meh what can you do, people will believe what they perceive, even when it differs from reality

nice, maybe you could use your time today for self reflection?

 

[Lindommer]

OK, you two, that's enough. The rest of us would like to concentrate on the upcoming rugby.

 

[waratahjesus]

OK, you two, that's enough. The rest of us would like to concentrate on the upcoming rugby.

off topic there lindo, can we stick to it please.

 

[wamberal]

I have no interest in joining into a s**fight, other than to say that I hope that the ARU decides Test match venues on factors other than the immediate financial benefit from competing venues. If the game is to continue developing, places like Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth (and even Canberra) deserve significant Test matches. The fact that the QRU is still struggling might be one good reason to play a major game there, rather than in Sydney.


It might also be worth pointing out that none of us has access to the full financial ramifications of playing particular games at any particular venue.

 

[liquor box]

It might also be worth pointing out that none of us has access to the full financial ramifications of playing particular games at any particular venue.

ANZ in Sydney throws around huge money for League to be played there, from memory a team is assured of making at least 100k a season no matter the crowds and they only need 10k to attend to make a profit due to the incentives.

I assume they would pay the ARU to have games there as well. I would expect them to make a play at the Tahs to go there full time in the future (but cant see that happening)

 

[wamberal]

ANZ in Sydney throws around huge money for League to be played there, from memory a team is assured of making at least 100k a season no matter the crowds and they only need 10k to attend to make a profit due to the incentives.

I assume they would pay the ARU to have games there as well. I would expect them to make a play at the Tahs to go there full time in the future (but cant see that happening)

All the big stadiums will pay for big games to be played in their venue. Sometimes State Governments will pay, also. However, the point is, none of us is appraised of all the financial ins and outs. Nevertheless, the decision should be made on the big picture, of which the financial ins and outs are a part - an important part, but only a part.

 

[wolverine]

Wallabies banking on UK tour after World Cup to help plug ARU $8m financial black hole
<snipped>

The ARU get a $5 million grant in the World Cup year but are expected to still lose in excess of $8 million and are believed to be looking into options to help boost their threadbare coffers.

A short Wallabies tour in November featuring a clash against the Barbarians and a Test against a UK side has been mooted.

Sources in Europe say with a regular November window not applicable where the IRB orders clubs to release players England and France would be out of the question but Wales, Scotland, Ireland or Italy are possibilities.

Each Test match could reap $1.5 million dollars but the ARU would need to pay the players a significantly boosted match fee to get the tour off the ground.

While I understand the need for the ARU to schedule some matches to make up for the financial shortfall of only hosting three tests at home this season, touring the UK, and playing yet another test match against a Celtic nation or Italy won't excite the players or supporters. Furthermore, it'll be hard to motivate the players to play after a long season and especially after a World Cup, and to travel over to Europe. In 2007, after the World Cup, apparently the Springboks didn't take the November games against Wales and the Barbarians seriously at all, and probably did not want to be there.

Given Homebush wil already host two games, and Brisbane one, I'd suggest the ARU stage these three home games for the Wallabies, in Australia in November:
1) Indigenous Barbarians - Canberra/SFS
2) New Zealand Maori - Melbourne (AAMI Park or Docklands)
3) Japan - SFS/Perth

Game 1 will be a tribute to Indigenous community's participation in Rugby, like the NRL's Indigenous All Stars game. The Indigenous team could be a mix of the best Indigenous players (Beale, the Fainga'a brothers, Hodgson, Brendan Williams and Shane Drahm from overseas, Clinton Sills) plus fringe Wallabies.

Game 2 will offer a competitive opposition in NZ Maori, and it can double as a charity benefit for Christchurch.

Game 3 will act as a benefit for Japan after their natural disasters.

 

[Gooch]

+1 I like that idea Wolverine.

 

[gladiator]

just means more money is left behind for John O'neill's personal expenses.

 

[barbarian]

As much as I like the idea Wolverine, the reason for the NH tour is purely $$$. A few games in Canberra, Melbourne and Perth against second-tier opponents just isn't going to make enough cash to be considered a viable option. Although that may change if we win the RWC, in which case you would get a full house to watch us play Rouse Hill 3rds.

 

[Gagger]

As much as I like the idea Wolverine, the reason for the NH tour is purely $$$. A few games in Canberra, Melbourne and Perth against second-tier opponents just isn't going to make enough cash to be considered a viable option.

Especially if two of the games are for charity!

 

[wolverine]

As much as I like the idea Wolverine, the reason for the NH tour is purely $$$. A few games in Canberra, Melbourne and Perth against second-tier opponents just isn't going to make enough cash to be considered a viable option. Although that may change if we win the RWC, in which case you would get a full house to watch us play Rouse Hill 3rds.

Fair point when it comes to playing Japan. However, the Maori would provide intense opposition second only to the ABs, Boks and England. We played them in June 2001 before the Lions, anti was a hard-fought 41-29 victory, attracting 31,000 fans to the SFS. They'd be stronger than the rest of the 6N, Argentina or the PIs. As for an Indigenous Barbarians team, if you select 7 Indigenous players and 15 non Indigenous, Australia A standard players, then you have a decent strength opposition to the Wallabies - like the Probables Possibles trial a few years back.

When it comes to $$$$, I 'm not certain an overseas tour will be that lucrative for the ARU. The Barbarians test at Twickenham last year versus the Boks only attracted a crowd of 31,313 in an 82,000 capacity stadium. The Crusaders CEO just said that his 35K did not deliver the return they were looking for. Given this game will be held after the World Cup, French and English clubs will not release players, as IRB do not schedule a release window in November this year. Furthermore, I doubt the Magners League teams will be that keen to release international players, given they will have missed both the NH club pre-season and at least 5 weeks of competition during the RWC pool rounds - potentially up to 8 if any of their national teams make the finals. Then, will any of the Magners League teams want their national teams to play after a 5 to 8 week RWC campaign?

So, if the Wallabies do play a Celtic nation or Italy, what attendance will they attract, how much return will there be for the ARU? There is no equitable revenue sharing (as the NZRU have wanted for years), and the ARU would attract a relatively small cut or appearance fee (compared to the Home Union). We only attracted 53,127 in Cardiff against Wales, at a 74K capacity stadium. While the GFC, ticket prices and cold weather may have all been factors affecting attendance, I'd also bet the Welsh had tired of seeing us for several years in a row, so we could expect an even smaller crowd there after a RWC. Last year, Scotland only attracted 56,807 against the All Blacks and 35,555 against the World Champion Boks. We're probably the smallest draw of the three, so we'd attract fewer spectators. Given the Baa Baas - Boks crowd, and that the Baa Baas would not field a strong lineup, a Wallabies Baa Baas game could struggle to attract 30,000 spectators. Expect 50,000 max at a test match, and the Wallabies would attract 80,000 total. It would probably cost up to $100K for travel and accommodation, then $528K for match payments (12K per player for 22 players, 2 tests). When it comes to broadcast audiences and generating TV rights from those, I'm not sure we'd generate as much return as usual in November, partly because they'd effectively be exhibition matches, partly because of the RWC hangover.

However, with some clever marketing, pitched around the charity efforts for the afflicted NZ and Japan, reaching out to Indigenous community, building upon the increased media profile that a World Cup in the region will build for the game in Australia, I think the Wallabies could attract 90,000 spectators to the three games. The revenue might be close to what you could generate i Europe.

However, these new matches might also satisfy what should be two important strategic imperative for the ARU: Attracting a decent audience and building a bigger profile with the sporting community here in Australia. Overseas test matches in the middle of the night will not accomplish either. So that's my argument

 

[TOCC]

Wolverine, you definitely make a valid argument, but i guess unless we found out the finer details of the financial agreements which pertains to these matches then we can really only speculate on what would be more financially viable.

 

[wamberal]

I would love to see an Indigenous XV on display. Apart from the names mentioned earlier, what about Rod Blake and Will Chambers? Wendell would probably put his boots on, if asked.

 

[TOCC]

I would love to see an Indigenous XV on display. Apart from the names mentioned earlier, what about Rod Blake and Will Chambers? Wendell would probably put his boots on, if asked.

To be honest i cant see a indigenous XV really getting through, there just isnt enough quality indigenous players within australia..

However, a 'polynesian XV' would a fantastic sight to see and a more apt reflection of rugby union in australia.

 

[Newb]

i like the idea of those 3 charity style games in addition to the euro money maker tour but i don't know if there is time for it.

tell the boys to bring an extra suitcase to bring their match fees back from the trip. cash & coins takes up at least a carry on.

 

[wolverine]

Wolverine, you definitely make a valid argument, but i guess unless we found out the finer details of the financial agreements which pertains to these matches then we can really only speculate on what would be more financially viable.

True TOCC, we can probably only speculate about the finer details of the financial arrangements, but that's the fun of a forum 8)

 

[wolverine]

wamberal, good point - Chambers would be great, Blake would be a good addition as a non-Indigenous player to beef up the forward pack.

To be honest i cant see a indigenous XV really getting through, there just isnt enough quality indigenous players within australia..

True. However, an Indigenous Barbarians could pick the best Indigenous talent, but supplement it with the next best non-Indigenous talent - that would create a quite decent team. Consider the teams that could be picked:

WALLABIES
Mitchell, Turner, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), JOC (James O'Connor), Ioane; Cooper, Genia; Palu, Pocock, Elsom (c); Mumm, Sharpe; Robinson, TPN, Slipper. BENCH: Moore, Alexander, Simmons, McCalman, Sheehan, Barnes, Hynes.

(Assuming Giteau and Burgess will be straight off to Europe after RWC).

INDIGENOUS BARBARIANS
Andrew Walker (Boomanulla Knight Riders, ex Brumbies, Wallabies) (i) Brendan Williams (Treviso, ex Waratahs, Celtic League) (i), Anthony Fainga'a (i), Shane Drahm (Kubota, Japan Top League) (i), Will Chambers (Reds) (i); Kurtley Beale (Tahs) (i), Nick Phipps; Scott Higginbotham, Colby Fainga'a (Brumbies) (i), Matt Hodgson (W Force) (i); Mark Chisholm, James Horwill; Salesi Ma'afu, Saia Fainga'a (i), Ben Daley. BENCH: Damien Fitzpatrick, Rodney Blake, Van Humphries, Wendell Sailor (ex Waratahs, Reds, Wallabies) (i), Arthur Little (ex Randwick and Aus Sevens) (i), Tim Cornforth (ex Aus Sevens), Clinton Sills (Randwick, ex Aus Sevens) (i)

So that would make 13 Indigenous players, 9 non-Indigenous players. In total, the team would contain 13 Wallabies. Walker, Little, Cornforth played for Boomanulla Knight Riders in the Ella Sevens in March 2011

Timana Tahu is currently playing for Windsor Wolves, NRL club Penrith Panthers' feeder club in the NSW Cup. Tahu would relish the opportunity to play - he was quite disappointed when he was ruled out of the NRL's inaugural Indigenous All Stars game in 2010 through a carry over suspension from his last stint in the NRL.

However, a 'polynesian XV' would a fantastic sight to see and a more apt reflection of rugby union in australia.

It might be. However, an Indigenous Barbarians team as listed above would be quite decent (regarding your poly XV suggestion, my proposed Indigenous Barbarians team had 5 players with polynesian ancestry in it). A polynesian XV might reflect the makeup of RU at the moment, but is that what the game needs to do? I'd suggest the game really needs to reach out to the wider community, because it appeals to a pretty narrow segment of the Australian community, and is being left behind by codes like AFL and RL that have a more broad community appeal.

If RU were to create a new match, the questions that should be asked are how the concept will relate to the sports community but also to the wider community and society, to Australian culture. On that basis, IMO an Indigenous concept would do more than a Polynesian concept would. (FWIW I'd love to see the Wallabies take on a combined Pacific Islanders team again as we did in 2002, it was a fantastic and competitive game, and boosted the PI competitiveness against us). Compared to sports like RL and AFL, Rugby Union is failing to reach out to Indigenous people. Indigenous history and culture is an integral part of our overall history and culture (that of Australia as a whole, Indigenous and non Indigenous), not just part of Indigenous people's culture.

Honouring the Indigenous community would be a fantastic thing for RU to do. The NRL and AFL both stage an annual Indigenous All Stars game, and through that demonstrate to Indigenous people that RL and AFL are games for them. So as far as the wider social fabric of the country, I think an Indigenous RU game would be a very important social and game development tool for Australian Rugby.