Arbitration

[Sully]

I've stayed out of this because no one here is going to change their minds. But the travel for the Australian teams would be terrible 3 of the 4 would have to travel to SA to play the kings then be in Australia to play the following weekend. there is a possibility that one Australian team would have to fly to South Africa to play the Kings then fly to Australia to play a home game then fly to South Africa to play their tour games. If the 4th Australian team tour NZ after the Kings they would fly to SA then straight to NZ. This is unlikely I know but still possible. I can't see any way around the flip flop across the Indian ocean if the Kings are playing in SA. If SANZAR insisted it be a home and away series with no allowances for a team outside the conference area the kings schedule could be horrendous. I wonder how much it would cost to fly, House and feed a S14 team for a week in SA? How many people travel with the players? How many players would go?

 

[Lindommer]

Spook's quite right here. When the inter-conference round starts the New Zealand matches will be in New Zealand and the Saffer matches in SAf but the Australian matches will have the Oz teams making an extra trip to SAf or the Southern Kings will be based in Oz. Either Australia loses the revenue from matches based here as well as incurring more travelling costs or someone wears the unnecessary expense of the SKs based in Australia for an additional four weeks.

We feel for you in SAf with the political overtones in determining which way to jump as the black-dominated government finds its feet in the greater sweep of South African history but we in this part of the world deplore government interference in the minutiae of sporting administration management. To increase black participation in rugby is admirable and if having a predominately black Super side is one means of achieving that, well and good. The solution is quite simple: one of the teams from the high veldt has to be moved to Port Elizabeth. To be honest, two of them have an appalling record in Super rugby and wouldn't be missed by us on this side of the Indian Ocean. I realise someone always has to come last in any sporting competition but the two feline teams have always been pussy cats.

I hope the arbitrator reads this.

 

[Blue]

The government in SA no longer needs to find its feet.

The owners of the Kings are playing the political card beautifully. It's quite sickening to watch. If only their intentions were so noble, but I do not believe it for one minute. Cheeky Watson is a piece of work.

Each country with five teams. It makes sense, everyone knows it.

An Australain Franchise team playing its home games in another country. That is just totally insane.

Promotion / relegation is the way to go in SA. That will push our teams to perform better, knowing they might be gone next year.

I look forward to traveling to Melbourne for rugby. Those heathens needs some proper education. :thumb

 

[Spook]

I've stayed out of this because no one here is going to change their minds. But the travel for the Australian teams would be terrible 3 of the 4 would have to travel to SA to play the kings then be in Australia to play the following weekend. there is a possibility that one Australian team would have to fly to South Africa to play the Kings then fly to Australia to play a home game then fly to South Africa to play their tour games. If the 4th Australian team tour NZ after the Kings they would fly to SA then straight to NZ. This is unlikely I know but still possible. I can't see any way around the flip flop across the Indian ocean if the Kings are playing in SA. If SANZAR insisted it be a home and away series with no allowances for a team outside the conference area the kings schedule could be horrendous. I wonder how much it would cost to fly, House and feed a S14 team for a week in SA? How many people travel with the players? How many players would go?

Sully, I think the suggestion from SARU is that the Oz sides would play the Kings when they tour to SA to play their non-conference games....so it would be an extra tour game in SA that would contribute to the Australian conference tally.

 

[Scotty]

The other option is for the Kings to have two tours to Oz and NZ. Meaning they have to play all their oz conference games away from home. I suppose they could set up a home away from home stadium at perth to play their home oz conference games there. Tough on them, but works for the conference system.

 

[Scarfman]

I look forward to traveling to Melbourne for rugby. Those heathens needs some proper education. :thumb

Especially the ladies, I hear.

What goes on tour ...

 

[PaarlBok]

If the Kings play in the Aus conferense it will cost NOTHING more, they'll play their Aus away leg with their tour and the Aus teams will play them on their SA tour.

 

[fatprop]

If the Kings play in the Aus conferense it will cost NOTHING more, they'll play their Aus away leg with their tour and the Aus teams will play them on their SA tour.

But the draw doesn't work like that.

There are three pools who are playing eachother home and away, in two blocks, with another block where they play the other teams once. Say four local games to start, middle block and four local games to finish.

So how will the four other sides in Aus comp be able to play the Kings, without making another tour to SA and the Kings travelling twice to Aus as well?

 

[PaarlBok]

Boet the draw have nothing to do with the fixture list. Thats the one they will fix.

Each team will play 4x2 within their conferense and 10 matches against the other teams = 18 matches.

They'll end up with 18 rounds and the top 2 of each conferense goes in the business end.

 

[PaarlBok]

Each country with five teams. It makes sense, everyone knows it.

My question, why did they gave it out then on a tender base and not saying from the start Aus get the 15th team and get it over and done with?

The government in SA no longer needs to find its feet.

The owners of the Kings are playing the political card beautifully. It's quite sickening to watch. If only their intentions were so noble, but I do not believe it for one minute. Cheeky Watson is a piece of work.

Sure you can bet on that one. There is a court ruling over Saru's head , the Kings will play Super Rugby within the a few years time and he'll nail Saru for that one, make no mistake.

To be honest this whole Super Rugby S15 kak was the biggest mistake Saru and specially Marinos farked up big time. Super Rugby or S15 will be the biggest failure within a few years I have no doubt. The minute Marinos decided to join the Sanzar lot after he threaten he made the biggest mistake of his life and sold SA Rugby's heart. This competition is going to kill our local game and he should have pulled out when he had the change. SA Rugby is on a high at the moment and we could have done it on our own from here. We are the WC Champs. Nr1 rated, have all the silverware , have the supporters, have the rugby structure and we must have set the tone

Now he turned into a dick in ONeils hand and will kill our game. We ghave to make all the compromises in this new format and if we get the Kings in at least it will give a squad of SA professional rugby players a career in exchange for dropping the CC competition.

 

[Blue]

Paarl to answer your first question. I don't know and nobody will know how the discussion went but I suspect it went something like:

"Gentleman about expansion, we need to discuss Super 15." JON: "Well we only have four teams so we must get the 15th team. Marinos: "No we have to have it, our market is bigger and we have a team ready and my dick is bigger than yours. JON: "Well we won't back down" Marinos " Well fuck you then we'll see who wins this."


As for the rest of your post I totally disagree that we can do it on our own and to suggest that would be complete arrogance to even suggest that.

Part of the reason our rugby is strong is Super X and 3N and there can be no denying that. For years we were the third best team in the 3N and we could be again before you know it. Things can change fast.

 

[PaarlBok]

Do you think more S14 rugby will bring more income? Why cant we play our CC, NZ their NPC and Australia whatever they have and the top teams in the competition play a flippen S9/12 in a few weeks and get it over and done with. At the moment SA pull the most crowds, we provide 50% of the income in TV viewers and we still have our CC that is going great and is our rugby's heart beat.

Think we will do must better playing like we use to play, CC and tours. If our top provincial teams do play in whatever competition, its a bonus, if not, so be it.

 

[Biffo]

If the Kings play in the Aus conferense it will cost NOTHING more, they'll play their Aus away leg with their tour and the Aus teams will play them on their SA tour.

SANZAR decided that the format for S15 would be three conferences - one RSA, one Australia, one NZ.

The Kings may well get the gig. However, the conference format must stand, regardless of which team is given the nod by the arbitrator. If the Kings win the 15th spot, they must play their home games in Australia. They would play their away games with the Tahs, Reds, Brumbies and Force within Australia – at their respective grounds. The Kings would play their home games against NZ and RSA teams at the ground of their choice in Australia and their away games at their opponents’ grounds. They would never play at their spanking stadium in Port Elizabeth.

Doing anything else would require SANZAR to rescind the conference format and simply give RSA a sixth team.

It would be interesting to see which city the Kings chose in Australia. Obviously, they should not be based in the any of the four cities which already have an S14 team. So, Melbourne, Adelaide, Hobart or Darwin?

 

[PaarlBok]

If the Kings play in the Aus conferense it will cost NOTHING more, they'll play their Aus away leg with their tour and the Aus teams will play them on their SA tour.

SANZAR decided that the format for S15 would be three conferences - one RSA, one Australia, one NZ.

The Kings may well get the gig. However, the conference format must stand, regardless of which team is given the nod by the arbitrator. If the Kings win the 15th spot, they must play their home games in Australia. They would play their away games with the Tahs, Reds, Brumbies and Force within Australia – at their respective grounds. The Kings would play their home games against NZ and RSA teams at the ground of their choice in Australia and their away games at their opponents’ grounds. They would never play at their spanking stadium in Port Elizabeth.

Doing anything else would require SANZAR to rescind the conference format and simply give RSA a sixth team.

It would be interesting to see which city the Kings chose in Australia. Obviously, they should not be based in the any of the four cities which already have an S14 team. So, Melbourne, Adelaide, Hobart or Darwin?

Biff Boet to be honest, look like you lot dont understand the conferense base of it. If the meaning of it was a hard and fast rule like you qouted, why did they put it out on tender for all countries? Its only a base of the competition and the fixture list surely will be put out to save the maximum costs. Thought that was the reason for the S15, to try and draw the most crowds, get the most income, saving on expenses. To be Honest, they make a BIG mistake. The are busy devauling the S14 and they will feel it in the pocket over a few years. The crowds and viewers will decline, watch my words.

 

[BillyWebb]

I can't see any other result than the arbitration ruling going in favour of Melbourne.

IF by some minor miracle the ruling went in favour of the Kings, it would mean Aussie teams (and the Kings) are the only ones that have extensive distance to cover in their travels for conference games. Not pleasant.



Come to think of it, maybe SA getting the Kings in won't be so bad after all. :lmao:

 

[PaarlBok]

Come to think of it, maybe SA getting the Kings in won't be so bad after all. :lmao:

Well it will even up the travel issue we have year after year.

 

[Moses]

Putting and Australian based team in a place that isn't Australia is a terribly bad idea. I can't believe we're actually entertaining the idea like their is any merit to it whatsoever!

The premise of giving opportunity to previously disadvantaged players in the Trans sky is flawed because 1) the talented ones will still play soccer and 2) if they're any good then the existing 5 provinces will pick them up from the Currie Cup regardless.

The Kings will be made up of three teams who not only can't make the first division of the Currie Cup, but can't even win the second division! Combined they have 14 Wins, 2 Draws and 15 losses to be placed 2nd 4th and 5th out of six teams this year.

If the timing for the currie cup is so precious why not count the S15 games between your provinces as Currie Cup matches? Much like we count the 3N game against the Kiwi's as a Bledisloe Cup.

 

[BillyWebb]

If the timing for the currie cup is so precious why not count the S15 games between your provinces as Currie Cup matches? Much like we count the 3N game against the Kiwi's as a Bledisloe Cup.

Goes to revenue issues Moses.
CC revenues are exclusively for Saru.
No way they'd want to share that revenue with Aussie and NZ.

 

[PaarlBok]

Putting and Australian based team in PE would mean an extra week in RSA for the Kiwi's as well. It's a terribly bad idea. There is no merit to it whatsoever.

Why will it mean a extra week for the Kiwis in SA aswell? If Melbourne gets it it will be a extra week in Aus, so no differense for the Kiwis. One year two Kiwi teams will play Melbourne/Kings at home and the next year the other three from their conferense.

The premise of giving opportunity to previously disadvantaged players in the Trans sky is flawed because 1) the talented ones will still play soccer and 2) if they're any good then the existing 5 provinces will pick them up from the Currie Cup regardless.

The same rule apply to Melbourne even more beause they dont have much of a schoolboy base like we have in SA.

If the timing for the currie cup is so precious why not count the S15 games between your provinces as Currie Cup matches? Much like we count the 3N game against the Kiwi's as a Bledisloe Cup.

Like I qouted before, a CC province is something different to a S14 franchise in SA. Doing this the small provinces will simply fade away and die.

 

[Biffo]

Biff Boet to be honest, look like you lot dont understand the conferense base of it. If the meaning of it was a hard and fast rule like you qouted, why did they put it out on tender for all countries?

Quote from a SANZAR press release issued by Andy Marinos:

"SANZAR has announced the details of the future of Super Rugby, with the tournament set to stretch from the last weekend in February to the first weekend of August from 2011 and incorporate a15th side, from Australia. The 24-week tournament will provide each side with at least eight home games and also introduces a new "sudden death" qualifying round before the semi-finals.

The 15 sides will be divided in to three national conferences, playing the other four sides in their conference home and away and playing four out of the five sides from the other conferences. The three confenrece winners and three 'wildcard' sides with the most points will advance to the playoffs, where the wildcard sides and the conference winners with the lowest amount of points will play for places in the semi-finals against the remaining conference winners. "

The bolding is mine.