and so onto France

[disco]

I don't think we should make any changes to the forwards & I'd been keen to shuffle the backs around & then go a 5-2 split on the bench. I think the impact of Mumm & Palu was a major boost.

1.Robinson
2.Moore
3.baxter
4.Chisolm
5.Sharpe
6.MMM
7.Smith
8.Brown
9.Burgess
10.Cooper
11.AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
12.Giteau
13.Mortlock
14.Hynes
15.Mitchell

Res: 16. TPN 17. Dunning 18.Mumm 19.Palu 20.Pocock 21.Cross 22.Ioane

 

[Gagger]

It wasnt Burgess's fault last night, he went to pass it and there werent any options..

Exactly right. We've been round this loop before and we ended up with a thread called "The Cordingly Spite thread"

What is this, groundhog day?

 

[Spook]

Do you seriously think Burgess played well (with ball in hand that is- he was superb in defense)? ??? A scrum half needs to organise his forwards around him and pass accurately. I thought Burgess failed badly on both points. The ball shouldn't go to the flyhalf until they can do something with it. Cordingly can be slow but his pass is accurate and he organises his forwards pretty well.

 

[Gagger]

I'll reserve full judgment until I finally manage to see the replay, but I agree he didn't have his best game.

If anything he's become more hesitant at the breakdown, either in pass or run and I wonder if he's being schooled too much right now. His box kicking also left a lot to be desired.

However, watching live I didn't think his passing was disastrous and he was constantly organising the forwards. What I also saw at the game though was a lack of runners coming from depth to give him any options. Is that his fault? Also his defence and covering was again outstanding and in the Deans set up 9 plays a key role there.

What I do know is that Cordingly will remind us what Burgess brings should we dump him

 

[Spook]

Our attack didn't falter too badly with Cords. We lost the Sloe is Brissy due to poor defense.

 

[RugbyReg]

We've struggled to back up from good wins this year.

This will be the defining moment of the tour for mine. How we back up v France. A lot of the good work this week will be forgotten next week if we can't double up.

 

[mark_s]

We've struggled to back up from good wins this year.

This will be the defining moment of the tour for mine. How we back up v France. A lot of the good work this week will be forgotten next week if we can't double up.

Very good point Noddy. After we made lost the Bris test, I made a point to my kiwi colleagues that I would be prepared to sacrifice the Honkers test if we beat England at Twickenham. However, I agree that another away victory this weekend against a well respected oppostion is needed to confirm that we have progressed comapred to the last 5 years or so and that we don't just rise for the odd one off game.

 

[formeropenside]

So far consistency is what is missing from the Wallabies this year (and good tactical kicking from Gits). Our scrum and our results have been up and down: one swallow does not a summer make.

The real test will be clean-sweeping the "European leg" of the tour.

 

[Spook]

Very good points. I think not losing the lead against the Poms was an important step.

 

[Ash]

I think we'll struggle in the backs until:

• we either move Gits to 12, or get a 12 who is a ball player and can step into 10 practically half the time
• we get more patience from Burgess - his passing is either a little loopy or a bit off as he seems to be rushing, and right now he seems to make a lot of rushed decisions which end poorly
• we get a real 15, someone who can run the ball back, kick to the corner and put up a well timed bomb instead of constant silly up and unders with no pressure

I agree with Noddy. Until our forward pack can show they can do this type of performance twice in a row I will be a little cynical.

I think Palu may should a nod at 8 with Brown or Pocock on the bench, and hopefully Mumm may get a shot at lock with Chis back to the bench. Alexander may also get a run instead of Robinson at 1. But the forward pack is fairly settled. Interesting that Deans moved MMM to the second row and Mumm to 6 when Chis was subbed - so Deans seems to look at MMM as more of a second row than Mumm...I would've thought of it as the other way around.

10/12/13 is a real problem though, and I don't know how to fix it short of throwing either Cooper or JOC (James O'Connor) into the deep end. Please, just not Mortlock, or another 13, at 12...but again, that only means we have Cooper at 10 and Gits at 12, or Gits at 10 and JOC (James O'Connor) at 12. Probably the former is better, but against a team like France we may get hurt.

Like everyone else, perhaps seeing Mitchell at 15 and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) somewhere else, like wing, would be interesting.

 

[Lindommer]

Interesting that Deans moved MMM to the second row and Mumm to 6 when Chis was subbed - so Deans seems to look at MMM as more of a second row than Mumm...I would've thought of it as the other way around.

I'm with Deans on this one. If these two are standing side by side and have to be allocated positions, I'd always play the taller of the two in the second row. Also, Mumm is fitter and more athletic than MMM, which confirms Deans' and my preference to have him at breakaway. It's nice to have these two young talented players available who can both play 4, 5 and 6.

 

[Pfitzy]

Probably more a factor that MMM had been going like the clappers since starting the game, and therefore Mumm's energies were probably better spent at flanker. Keep in mind that we also need to develop MMM's second row skills in addition to having him as a flanker. Its good to see his scrum work has improved as well.

 

[naza]

Interesting that Deans moved MMM to the second row and Mumm to 6 when Chis was subbed - so Deans seems to look at MMM as more of a second row than Mumm...I would've thought of it as the other way around.

I'm with Deans on this one. If these two are standing side by side and have to be allocated positions, I'd always play the taller of the two in the second row.

I'd pick the fresh man to play blindside, where the workrate and ground coverage is likely to be higher than lock.

Although I noticed a lot of our problems in defence were caused by big men defending too wide out.

 

[Gagger]

Although I noticed a lot of our problems in defence were caused by big men defending too wide out.

Spot on

He had a great game in the tight, but Sharpe's inside shoulder has a "run through here" sign on it

 

[naza]

This will be the defining moment of the tour for mine. How we back up v France. A lot of the good work this week will be forgotten next week if we can't double up.

We will smash the Frogs. We struggle against teams with physical dynamic players. The French are soft little midgets. How will they score any points ? Shut down Jauzion and they have nothing.

I have 2 concerns :

1. the speed of Dussatoir at the breakdown. The Dark Destroyer is an absolute gazelle. George is looking fat and sluggish by his usual standards.
2. our attack being kak. We need to be a lot more direct early on, build some momentum and continuity.

 

[Lee Grant]

I think that Deans will play his best team against France but may have a couple of punts against Wales.

Not that Wales are duds but because they will be coming off a tough game against the All Blacks and because they will probably lose some players because the Wallaby match is being played outside the official international window.

Some Welshmen play their rugby in the English GP and the organising body of the GP may require them to be available for their clubs.

After their scrum effort against England the Wallabies should get parity, at least, against France and I think they will be more physical in the other contests unless they take a step back from their Twickenham standards.

For the past few years the France scrum has been small, though technically sound and competitive, but there are several new faces in the French pack - and they are still small compared to our guys. The backrowers are superb especially flanker Dusautoir, who is world class, but the tight five is hardly elite apart from hooker Dimitri Szarzewski.

Their backs are another story. Scrummie Ellisalde may not play because he got his bells rung on the weekend by a careless tackle. Flyhalf Skrela has been in indifferent form in club rugby but played well enough in the last two weekends, though he doesn't have the quality of the injured Trinh-Duc.

But outside of them they are sheer class. 12 Jauzion would get into most World XVs, 13 Baby looks like he's in the form of his life, the wingers, youngster Malzieu and the zippy Heymans are better than ours on form, and fullback Medard is quality though small and young.

They are not world beaters though, as they couldn't score a try against Argentina. The key will be to deny them the amount of ball that the Poms got and when they have the pill to spoil it by legal means. That and the Wallabies backline defence should shut the French down on paper, but , as we all know, they can pull tries out of their arses from nowhere when it's their day.

Therefore get the forwards basics right.

 

[Pfitzy]

They're France - that's enough to suggest they could beat a team made up of the best players selected from throughout time with 3 poodles in their front row and a Can-can girl at scrumhalf if the mood takes them.

 

[RugbyReg]

and because they will probably lose some players because the Wallaby match is being played outside the official international window.

Some Welshmen play their rugby in the English GP and the organising body of the GP may require them to be available for their clubs.

yeah, I forgot about that. It could quite deplete them right? Top 2 or 3 scrummies?

 

[Gagger]

I think that Deans will play his best team against France but may have a couple of punts against Wales.

One thing that I think needs to be taken into consideration is what Saturdays test would have taken out of the guys. For the last 10 minutes there were a few forwards, who having given their all were out on their feet - Moore and Sharpe as examples. How Sharpe kept making the hits I'll never know. I would think he could well be up for a rest this weekend. Maybe others?

Some Welshmen play their rugby in the English GP and the organising body of the GP may require them to be available for their clubs.

I'm pretty certain GP no longer have rights over internationals for home tests.

 

[Scotty]

I would be extremely tempted to take the risk with QC (Quade Cooper) and throw him in the deep end against France. Our backline didn't look like scoring a try, or making a break except for the odd Mortlock bash against the English. The Mortlock/Cross combination is strangling any attack, with Mortlock's lack of long passing skills and Cross' diagonal running.

My team:

1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Baxter
4. Chisholm
5. Sharpe
6. Mumm
7. Pocock
8. Palu
9. Burgess
10. Cooper
11. Ashley-Cooper
12. Giteau
13. Mortlock
14. Hynes
15. Mitchell

16. TPN
17. Dunning
18. Alexander
19. MMM
20. Smith
21. Coordingly
22. Cross

I would like to see the same tight 5 start, but due to the possible tiredness factor from the weekend's game would carry a 5-2 bench split with a full front row replacement.