Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
And what happened when they played South Africa? It's the Tests against the Boks or Ireland that I really want a forward to make a mark. Bullying the Wallabies doesn't impress me that much.
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All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT 2024
- Thread starter waiopehu oldboy
- Start date
Tomthumb
Chilla Wilson (44)
If that's the qualification then it's a bit harsh on Sotutu as he's never played Ireland and only has 1 appearance off the bench vs South Africa (in an AB's win)
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
That's fair... but in his 14 Tests, did he do anything like what Sititi has done in 4?
Tomthumb
Chilla Wilson (44)
Sititi has only played 1 test against South Africa, and he played well. His other 2 starts were against Australia so they don't count
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
And his 1 Test against SA was better than anything Sotutu has done in 14...
Tomthumb
Chilla Wilson (44)
The term "small sample size" comes to mind
Along with the fact Sotutu has never started a test against South Africa and was never apart of a forward pack so devoid of ball running options so you are comparing apples with oranges
Sititi may be great, but we all know the only reason Sotutu wasn't picked was the old 'coach trying to prove he's smarter than the average punter'
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
I have no reason to think that I know know better than the last 2 All Black coaching teams.
BTW - I have repeatedly said that I think Sotutu did enough in Super this year to earn another shot. But I also don't think he grabbed his opportunities the same way Sititi obviously has. The fact that neither of us can really point to anything he did in the AB jersey only reinforces that.
KiwiM
Arch Winning (36)
It shouldn't be Sotutu vs Sititi - it should be both of them.
Our bench has absolutely sucked all season with a couple of exceptions (England 2, Wallabies 2) - we have a loose forward who was the best player in Super Rugby who is in the form of his life - a guy that would be in the conversation to having the best ball skills of any forward in the world - and could open up 6-2 bench opportunities - but no - stubborn Razor sticks with injury prone favourites as part of a lopsided loose forward group.
Our bench has absolutely sucked all season with a couple of exceptions (England 2, Wallabies 2) - we have a loose forward who was the best player in Super Rugby who is in the form of his life - a guy that would be in the conversation to having the best ball skills of any forward in the world - and could open up 6-2 bench opportunities - but no - stubborn Razor sticks with injury prone favourites as part of a lopsided loose forward group.
Linerunner2023
Watty Friend (18)
Can’t believe sotutu didn’t get picked in the top 6 loosies in nz easily being the best 8 in super rugby
robertson has so many hybrid 6/7/8 players and many who break down a lot he has no real point of difference other then hard working backrowers
6 Sititi 7 savea 8 sotutu would work well with a Jacobson/ paapali or Blackadder off the bench covering all positions
robertson has so many hybrid 6/7/8 players and many who break down a lot he has no real point of difference other then hard working backrowers
6 Sititi 7 savea 8 sotutu would work well with a Jacobson/ paapali or Blackadder off the bench covering all positions
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
I think when we wonder why players are picked or dropped is not on what we see on TV at super level. Sotutu has been in ABs, I have heard Ryan say countless times players can lose positions with attitude at training, which I have heard commented by a number of coached, Graham Henry, Steve Hansen etc etc.. I don't know if Sotutu has an attitude or not, but I do wonder if there is a problem there. On Sititi one of things that coming out of camp is he does everything he can at training to get better, he is in coaches and senior players ear all the time, Savea was laughing about the questions he asks all the time. Personally I thoiught Sotutu would get run, but he's pissing someone off it would seem.
KiwiM
Arch Winning (36)
What would be interesting is to hear the thoughts of Vern Cotter on this - and also noting Vern Cotter has history with Jase Ryan (Jase Ryan was the Fiji forwards coach for a period whilst Cotter was head coach from memory).
Attitude related it would make more sense this year if they brought him in and then discarded him this year - but he hasn't even been in the squad this year. So he's had his best year ever under Cotter and they haven't brought him in because of attitude based on... attitude from what? Super Rugby feedback? His last AB involvement in 2022?
I'd give Ryan and Razor more leeway if the loose forwards were performing - but they've been on the whole, Sititi aside, pretty disappointing as a group.
I guess I just don't trust this coaching group and how they handle loose forwards - they overplay some players, underplay others, have an unbalanced group, and the performance just isn't there. Meanwhile - the best player in Super Rugby in the best form of his career hasn't been given a shot this year.