AIC Rugby 2018

[Ali Barber]

Well said mate the issue is that as any school that does not scholarship Rugby players cannot expect the results to be continually high. There is no doubt they have underperformed over the past decade but that is not the fault of the current administration, coaches or kids.
Lauries have had many good things happen over the past decade in terms of the development at the school but they would not have helped develop on the sports field.
The new carpark giving them a new oval meant that for the best part of two years he boys only had a quad to train on at the site.
The new hall is fantastic however for three years they had no gym so no S and C program. (I still have no idea why you would demolish a pool and not build another but there you go)
Frankly this year they did not have the cattle and have finished about where expected anyone who thinks that they should have gone better has not had a look at this year groups sporting results across all sports.

The difference between AIC to GPS is the widening gap between the top and bottom teams in such a short time. Two fold, one is delivering a rugby program over a small period of years remembering you really only have the kids for 4 or 5 years maximum. secondly of course is when you get a good player it's very hard not to lose him to a GPS scholarship by grade 10. We've seen the attempted poaching of the best OF AIC for 2018 years 12 under different forms of enticement, still a fee paid scheme as recent as December-January 18 admittedly without success. There's nothing wrong with the AIC or GPS collectively as a group, forming a Rugby Program for all years from the initial preseason training and skills, Strength and conditioning, set trial matches and dates, and their season proper. Possibly throwing in a bye weekend where each year a school trying to break into the competition can be measured against each school. AFL & RL will throw a fair bit in the form of the above at the AIC over the next two years and it will pressure the GPS system as well as more kids want to play AFL or RL on weekends. It all starts with a light bulb moment.

 

[Prince Henry]

Well said Ali. What is happening in Sydney school rugby with their inter-association trials has seen CAS and ISA schools regularly beating their GPS peers. It's exciting and will be interesting to see if it translates into better performances for their state teams at the National Champsionships.

AIC schools seem to be going the other way and rather than fostering rugby development, they are introducing League. If that's what the boys want, great but all I have heard this week is disappointment because the school season finishes this weekend.

At least in term 3, there is club rugby for them but again, it will be without most of the GPS school boys. How do we get the BJRU, AIC and GPS to get some alignment for the betterment of QLD?

 

[Garry Owens]

@ Ali Barber

AIC to GPS was never big business and year on year over the last 5 years you could probably count the number of transfers on one hand with a couple of fingers missing

More evidence is accumulating over the last year in particular that more families are saying “ no thanks”

This can be for a variety of reasons - educational , social and the sport itself. Its rarely a financial decision as most of the time it equalises out to same same ( IE paying the same at proposed new school to existing )

Here in Brisbane , right now , there only really seems to be 1 school that is a bit keener than another 2 that seem to be more lukewarm on this channel (and now almost disinterested as the others are unless they are approached - which is rare)

From a pure Rugby perspective - if you go alright and have made a City U13 or U14 team ( from Club ) and your Club Team is Top 2 or 3 - and then same for School - the risk in heading to a GPS School is that you are another talented player playing with similar or better quality players. Perhaps it is safer to stay in AIC and be a bigger fish in a smaller pond , and maybe, one of a few that gain a better pathway advantage given that there always is going to be some representation from AIC

Especially right now where there is much hand wringing and many a furrowed brow about the lack of diversity in where players come from.

And then beyond the Rugby- if the broader educational curriculum is good and the kid has his mates - then why switch after you get past the initial ego stroke of “a GPS School wants us”

Big whoop

 

[Garry Owens]

The NSW situation , by way of comparative example in what we may follow , has a whole bunch of flaws and outliers

Firstly, Schools are generally full with waiting lists of full fee paying families

Secondly , whilst boarding is still big business for Sydney Schools - more and more over the past few years , an increasing number of Brisbane GPS Schools are plundering the Central West , The Riverina , the Southern Tablelands , South Coast , Central Coast and North Coast , Northern Rivers . It's not really making a dent in numbers of boys attending NSW Boarding Schools - but Brisbane GPS Schools are doing a better job of cherry picking the best NSW Country talent and they ending up in a few different Brisbane GPS Schools . No more is TSS the sole Brisbane GPS player from these catchments . And it's happening where these families were already sending their boys to boarding school anyway - but instead of paying $55K to $60K a year - they are paying , on average , about 60% to 65% of this figure - and being sold the opportunity to be playing in the best Schoolboy competition in Australia to boot ( and let's face it - they are )

Thirdly , there doesn't seem to be as hard a drive or emphasis on Rugby within the broader curriculum as to what there is within the Top 5 or 6 Brisbane GPS Schools - despite maybe some out dated and misplaced rah rah in trying to keep pace with the Northerners but the cracks are opening into a gulf due to a combination of factors - a couple of which have been referenced above

Fourthly , CAS and ISA Schools have had a long proud Rugby history and there has been wax and wane over time over what competition is the stronger , or at least , which competition's best 2 or 3 teams are better than the other competition's best 2 or 3 teams . It's no big thing for a CAS or ISA School to beat a GPS School , whereas , if it happened here in QLD - generally speaking and in the main , hell would have had to have frozen over

So this is all wonderful that down in NSW there seems to be a more balanced distribution of talent and ability

It doesn't change my view that at least for the next 3 years and possibly out to a 5 year window - taking into account trends at junior rep carnivals and school recruitment truths , and possibly , affirmative action drivers in making Rugby more accessible ( see how that has been working for the South Africans ) NSW Schools will be weaker , and by quite a bit , compared to how the dynamics have been set up ( pretty much in accidental osmosis ) in QLD Schools over the last 5 to 10 years ( but the last 5 especially )

The biggest and most significant change in the last 5 years has been the heavier focus on recruitment between 12 to 14 years of age . That never used to happen - at least to the degree it has in the last 5 years . What this means is that clusters of talent is being consolidated earlier , which in turn , is increasing the rate and degree of competition and development . As much as no one wants to admit it - it matters - and has been , and will continue to be , a game changer

Meanwhile , at the Schoolboys level , the huff and puff will continue about administrative efficiencies that will never come . And even if an Inter-Association competition did come - what real incentive is there for Brisbane GPS Schools to do it ? None I'd expect . And it would be complete shit for the AIC Schools too - where is the benefit of them turning up and getting horsewhipped by 50+ every week ( except for the Top 2 AIC Teams playing the bottom 2 GPS Teams ) If Headmasters and Heads of Curriculum at both GPS and AIC Schools had the stones to extend Rugby across Term 2 and 3 - the GPS Schools would be best off just running a home and away series against each other and the AIC would be best off doing the same

Politics aside at the selection tables - for the primary reasons outlined above - I see NSW Schools getting thumped over at least a 3 to 5 window by QLD Schools

 

[Ali Barber]

@ Ali Barber

AIC to GPS was never big business and year on year over the last 5 years you could probably count the number of transfers on one hand with a couple of fingers missing

More evidence is accumulating over the last year in particular that more families are saying “ no thanks”

This can be for a variety of reasons - educational , social and the sport itself. Its rarely a financial decision as most of the time it equalises out to same same ( IE paying the same at proposed new school to existing )

Here in Brisbane , right now , there only really seems to be 1 school that is a bit keener than another 2 that seem to be more lukewarm on this channel (and now almost disinterested as the others are unless they are approached - which is rare)

From a pure Rugby perspective - if you go alright and have made a City U13 or U14 team ( from Club ) and your Club Team is Top 2 or 3 - and then same for School - the risk in heading to a GPS School is that you are another talented player playing with similar or better quality players. Perhaps it is safer to stay in AIC and be a bigger fish in a smaller pond , and maybe, one of a few that gain a better pathway advantage given that there always is going to be some representation from AIC

Especially right now where there is much hand wringing and many a furrowed brow about the lack of diversity in where players come from.

And then beyond the Rugby- if the broader educational curriculum is good and the kid has his mates - then why switch after you get past the initial ego stroke of “a GPS School wants us”

Big whoop

In retrospect or hindsight which is always a beautiful thing, you're right G.O. there isn't many kids who switch across at all, i guess it's the fear of losing any which can really effect a team. I agree most have probably made their minds up before grade 10 or even earlier choosing a school to go to in secondary. I said before a lot of people do want their kids to go to a strong sporting school and will make the choice early. Some say this particular age group of this year isn't as strong as previous years - yet in both school systems there's very good players and plenty of them. I'm thinking the depth is shallow after the A team. Maybe it's because last year was strong in both circles and the year behind looks very strong. Some parents did keep their children back a year when Preps started off. A short break and the GPS comp is full swing.

 

[mbthommo]

Big surprises coming out of the AIC selection meeting last night I hear. Especially in terms of the numbers being selected from one particular school. Good to see a little bit of respect being thrown that way for a change.

 

[Prince Henry]

Fourthly , CAS and ISA Schools have had a long proud Rugby history and there has been wax and wane over time over what competition is the stronger , or at least , which competition's best 2 or 3 teams are better than the other competition's best 2 or 3 teams . It's no big thing for a CAS or ISA School to beat a GPS School , whereas , if it happened here in QLD - generally speaking and in the main , hell would have had to have frozen over.

Not correct. GPS has routinely flogged CAS (they don't bother with ISA) in their annual rep games going back decades. CAS win about once every 10 years. Ironically last year was one of those years.

No waxing or waning I can guarantee you.

Joeys being done by Trinity (CAS) and Barker (CAS) in recent weeks was HUGE news.
Scots being done by St Augustine's (ISA) - well, hell did freeze over.

 

[Garry Owens]

Come man ! Tell us what you know !

Pats ? If so they probably deserve a better suck of the sav

 

[mbthommo]

Come man ! Tell us what you know !

Pats ? If so they probably deserve a better suck of the sav

Iona - 3
MCA - 6
PAD - 2
SLC - 1
SPC - 11
SPLC - 1
Villa - 3

 

[Garry Owens]

Yes.....Padua .......????

 

[Garry Owens]

Where is the big surprise re : the school that you suggest was due for a bit more of a fair go ?

Iona feels at least 1 to 2 light on with only 3 in the mix . I would have said 4 minimum - maybe 5 - but I guess Saturday's result probably doesn't help

Marist sounds about right

 

[Garry Owens]

Thanks for editing and updating your post Thommo

Pats no longer smeared !

Pats nation be dancing like Duane tonight

 

[Garry Owens]

I'm guessing either Peter Lamin or Zac Stannard from Lauries ???

I'm also guessing the numbers at 27 in total includes 4 x shadow players ???

Are you able to post a list Thommo

 

[mbthommo]

I'm guessing either Peter Lamin or Zac Stannard from Lauries ???

I'm also guessing the numbers at 27 in total includes 4 x shadow players ???

I've got the names but I'll keep them to myself for the moment until the boys have been notified.

They didn't pick a team rather a squad. They haven't named reserves/shadows etc. I think they'll take all 27 players.

 

[Garry Owens]

Onya Thommo

 

[Cameron Toop]

I’ll just assume that the 6 that got in from Ashgrove were the front row and the back row.

 

[Garry Owens]

I don't necessarily agree that "more" is the answer

When you take into account a preseason / trial season , on average , of 3 games and then School based competition of 8 games then a range of 10 to 12 games is , in my view , sufficient to develop in games

Behind all of this there is a shit ton of work that is done behind the scenes from ( say ) U14/15 upwards when additional Club games drop off for many , and , they are age appropriate to properly commence strength training , and later , a lot more skill development work that the best and more complete Coaching offering at the top end of School programs affords.

There does hit a point of redundancy ( in a specific time window ) that no matter how much more than you are playing the rate of your skill development isn't going to keep increasing exponentially

The NZ example is interesting

Over the last 5 years I have seen / observed U14 and under teams from :

• St Kentigens
• Christchruch Boys High
• Manawatu Representative

All get beaten by Australian School or Club Teams

But somewhere between U15 to U18 we assist their development by our inherent intimidation of them - just because they are New Zealanders , and , quite frankly , they are streets ahead of us in their Coaching delivery in this critical arc of 15 to 20 years of age

That's pretty much it - not because they are playing shitloads more than us

In fact , you might argue the reason that they do is because it is worth money . Fun fact .....there are more viewing numbers in NZ First XV Schoolboy Rugby than there is in the ITM Cup . More content suits the business case.

I guess you can add an Opens First XV example to this now with BBC recently downing Otago Boys High 10 days ago - Otago Boys High being 1 of 2 or 3 top ranked First XV Teams on the South Island and top dozen overall nationally

It’s relevant to bump this as the discussion piece over the last 24 hours has been around changes to make Australian Schools Rugby more competitive

This example , in a singular microcosm , suggests that consolidation and concentration might be as much , or maybe even more , the answer rather than pc affirmative action agendas

Without suggesting that this direct thought drove such a heavy concentration of Pats selection - it is still very interesting to see nonetheless this theory of consolidation and concentration in play

 

[Garry Owens]

I’ll just assume that the 6 that got in from Ashgrove were the front row and the back row.

No LTW ?

Say it ain’t so

Jacob Heinke ?

Cap'n Ben ?

Would have thought Zach Hogan would have had some claims too

 

[Managreve]

Iona - 3
MCA - 6
PAD - 2
SLC - 1
SPC - 11
SPLC - 1
Villa - 3

That must be a misprint?? 11 from St Pats.... impossible Ashgrove destroyed them, imagine what GPS will do to them.

 

[Confucius Say]

Yes surprise too but they did beat Iona by 20 point away from home. Iona only 3? Oh dear