A crime against Rugby & Bernie. Your help needed

[Gagger]

The poms are in full thrashwank over that back line killer Johnny Wilkinson.

Please get over to this poll and set the record straight - as it is the Great Bernie is behind Ronan O'Gara for fuck's sake!

Current standings:
JW 33%
DC 45%
SL 7%!!
ROG 11%!!

They have got Butch James about right though...

 

[cyclopath]

O'Gara? How many times did Thomo vote?

 

[Lior]

I've often thought that Wilkinson was the best defensive and kicking Flyhalf. Larkham was the best attacking. Carter was the best all round.

 

[Ruggo]

Poor old Bernie is getting shafted in that one.

O'Gara shouldn't be on that list. He is Jonny Wilkinson without the ability to tackle.

A list of the best flyhalfs in the proffessional era without Mertens on it is a crock of shit anyways.

 

[Braveheart81]

Jonny Wilkinson is a much better Englishman than Bernie Larkham or Dan Carter ever were.

As an aside, I suggest you do a google search for "define an english person"

 

[Swat]

Jonny Wilkinson is a much better Englishman than Bernie Larkham or Dan Carter ever were.

As an aside, I suggest you do a google search for "define an english person"

Wow! Amazing... Google is definitely accurate

 

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

Nah agree. Wilkinson was better than Bernie.

But then again Wilkinson can't beat the British and Irish Lions

 

[cyclopath]

It all depends somewhat upon whether you think "kicking a shitload of goals" is an absolute requirement for a 10. I don't, provided someone else in the team kicks goals. Obviously, by tradition they often are the kicker. This has been the weighting here, I think. Australia has often had a different take on what they want their 10 to do, than is seen oop north, for instance. For what they like, Wilkinson is well ahead of Larkham, and Carter is the best. Carter is less extravagant than Larkham in attack, but does nothing badly. The fact that O'Gara is on the list confirms my thoughts.

 

[Ruggo]

It all depends somewhat upon whether you think "kicking a shitload of goals" is an absolute requirement for a 10. I don't, provided someone else in the team kicks goals. Obviously, by tradition they often are the kicker. This has been the weighting here, I think. Australia has often had a different take on what they want their 10 to do, than is seen oop north, for instance. For what they like, Wilkinson is well ahead of Larkham, and Carter is the best. Carter is less extravagant than Larkham in attack, but does nothing badly. The fact that O'Gara is on the list confirms my thoughts.

Yep the bloke hardly needed to playing with blokes like Burke, Flately and Mortlock who were all fantastic goal kickers in their day.

 

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

The bloke could score a try or two. He had the ability to smash in defence too. Played more years at the top. Most points. Most runs etc etc etc.

 

[Mr Tank]

Planetrugby.com running a similar poll, ROG beating Bernie in that one at the moment.

To their credit the planetrugby poll has Mehrtens and Honiball for Spencer and James.

Poll on the main page, if you are so inclined.

 

[Scarfman]

Wilkinson is the single most overrated player of all time.

ROG, however, must be close to the most underrated, judging by this thread. He was very very good.

I would have to pick Bernie first, because he simply has the sweetest pass in rugby and I would want to watch it over and over. But I'd have ROG 2nd - his ability to control the game is a class above everyone else in the game since Mehrtens.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Wilkinson is the single most overrated player of all time.

Behind Campese.

 

[Moses]

I don't remember Johnny's kicking being all that consistent in RWC2011...

 

[Schadenfreude]

I don't remember Johnny's kicking being all that consistent in RWC2011...

Well - the coaching staff kept switching the ball on him - they didn't give him much of a chance.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

I don't remember Johnny's kicking being all that consistent in RWC2011...

Judging Jonny on 2011 is like judging Mortlock on 2011.

 

[Gagger]

I'm close to Scarfie on this one. Wilkinson absolutely murdered that pommy back line. His set up was shoulders pointing at the sideline and running directly towards the 12, before shovelling the ball on. How he and Giteau will ever be able to play in the same back line at Toulon is beyond me.

JW had a boot and a tackle (to start with). The reason this was so effective around 2003, was that the poms had a fucking awesome pack, which was set up beautifully for 10 man rugby. O'Gara would have looked just as good in that chair, maybe better.

 

[dobduff11]

Also we had Will Greenwood at 12 who was a quality centre, Englands failure to find a successor to him has largely contribute to our lack of flair and invention over the past few years. Not to forget elite athletes like Cohen, Robinson and Lewsey.

 

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

I'm close to Scarfie on this one. Wilkinson absolutely murdered that pommy back line. His set up was shoulders pointing at the sideline and running directly towards the 12, before shovelling the ball on. How he and Giteau will ever be able to play in the same back line at Toulon is beyond me.

JW had a boot and a tackle (to start with). The reason this was so effective around 2003, was that the poms had a fucking awesome pack, which was set up beautifully for 10 man rugby. O'Gara would have looked just as good in that chair, maybe better.

The things you speak of are tell tale signs your pack is being beaten up.

 

[Bardon]

The other thing about having Greenwood next to Wilko was that he talked to him a lot and told him what to do and made many of the calls for Jonny. In his 2nd stint when he came back from injury he had a succession of 12s that didn't do this as well as inexperienced 9s. Also a lot of the time Jonny was seen as a senior figure expected to guide the younger or less experienced guys through, but he wasn't very well suited to that and his own game suffered.